Andre Bikey

[Hoop Blah]

It appears Bikey has come in for some pretty harsh criticism in other threads. Some people seem to forget that the guy is only 21 and is still very much learning his trade.

That's one thing that annoys me about fans and pundits alike - "its OK, he's still learning". Like you'd apply the same maxim to say, a brain surgeon, or an airline pilot? "Sorry he killed all your loved ones, he's just learning the ropes! He'll be better when he's got 10 frontal lobotomies under his belt"

He's a premiership footballer FFS! I don't want to get on his case too much, because I thought his positional play was pretty good last night (Heskey goal apart) but its what happened when he got the ball taht worried me the most, he lashing at it completely out of control, at least 5 times I counted, which there is no excuse for at this level, or indeed any professional level - it was a skill level below what you see down Christchurch Meadow every Sunday.

Wally - get him in for clearance practice, pronto.

Where do you expect him to learn? With a brain surgeon you can learn in a classroom, and then by assisting the experienced and qualified doctor in real time operations. You can't learn football in a classroom, and you certainly can't be guided through with an experienced Premiership footballer by your side in a Premiership match. That is where the fundamental flaw in your argument sits. If players didn't learn in matches then there'd end up being no decent players. Players have to learn at the deep end. There's nothing like first team football to learn it. Unfortunately, whilst not ideal, that is the way it is.

How about in training or in competitive football that isn't quite so punishing as the Premiership?

[Platypuss]

The biggest problem with Bikey was his poor reading of the game - he always looked slow to react to danger, and did not pre-empt danger by taking up a better position. He seemed to let things happen rather than making them happen.

As a result defensively he had to rush everything so ending up with uncontrolled clearances. Contrariwise, when he had more time on the ball he looked more cultured.

These skills come with (years of) experience of playing at centre back - I don't think he or we have the time to let him develop them to the level required.

[handbags_harris]

It appears Bikey has come in for some pretty harsh criticism in other threads. Some people seem to forget that the guy is only 21 and is still very much learning his trade.

That's one thing that annoys me about fans and pundits alike - "its OK, he's still learning". Like you'd apply the same maxim to say, a brain surgeon, or an airline pilot? "Sorry he killed all your loved ones, he's just learning the ropes! He'll be better when he's got 10 frontal lobotomies under his belt"

He's a premiership footballer FFS! I don't want to get on his case too much, because I thought his positional play was pretty good last night (Heskey goal apart) but its what happened when he got the ball taht worried me the most, he lashing at it completely out of control, at least 5 times I counted, which there is no excuse for at this level, or indeed any professional level - it was a skill level below what you see down Christchurch Meadow every Sunday.

Wally - get him in for clearance practice, pronto.

Where do you expect him to learn? With a brain surgeon you can learn in a classroom, and then by assisting the experienced and qualified doctor in real time operations. You can't learn football in a classroom, and you certainly can't be guided through with an experienced Premiership footballer by your side in a Premiership match. That is where the fundamental flaw in your argument sits. If players didn't learn in matches then there'd end up being no decent players. Players have to learn at the deep end. There's nothing like first team football to learn it. Unfortunately, whilst not ideal, that is the way it is.

How about in training or in competitive football that isn't quite so punishing as the Premiership?

Whilst a good suggestion, you have no idea how good a player is until they are in a first team situation. Reserve team and training doesn't provide a first team scenario to improve at the rate required.

[Hoop Blah]

Whilst a good suggestion, you have no idea how good a player is until they are in a first team situation. Reserve team and training doesn't provide a first team scenario.

I was meaning a first team football at championship level really, but even then you don't know if they'll make the step up when in the Prem.

[Royal Rother]

Platypuss, I guess you would have said the same thing about Sonko if we had been in The Premiership when he arrived.

If we can't give youngsters, who show the ability that Bikey has so far, the chance to develop then we might as well just sign a whole bunch of Duberrys and have done with it.

Do you really expect Halford to look as good as Murty after 400 minutes of Premiership football?

[readingbedding]

I just don't think Bikey is a centre back, he's a central midfielder?

Coppell must have a problem with Sodje not to have played him last night.

Definitely keep Bikey, but a CB?

Long way to go...

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Firstly, Bikey is NOT a defender. He was playing out of position last night due to the absence of Sonko, Gunnarsson (Injured) and Sodje (Shite - to be sold?). Its not really his fault we didnt have much else.

But, his performance last night was so bad it was untrue. At one point Murty was telling him which part of the foot he should be useing to make a clearance! FFS, you tell thoise sort of things to a 10 year old!

He was just as bad at Watford where he played full back, he just didnt stand out as much because all 21 other players on the pitch were appalling that day.

If Gunnarrsson/Sonko are still injured come the cup game at Man U, i think we might see someone like Pearce or even Murty at CB. At least they understand the basics of defending. (Assuming Bennett is still in his 'pre season'.)

The comparison with Sonko is stupid. One is a midfielder the other is a defender.

IMO, Bikey will not be kept on after his loan spell. He just hasn't shown enough promise.

[RIP ELM Park]

Whilst a good suggestion, you have no idea how good a player is until they are in a first team situation. Reserve team and training doesn't provide a first team scenario.

I was meaning a first team football at championship level really, but even then you don't know if they'll make the step up when in the Prem.

So, just to clarify you want us to loan out a loaned player?

[Hoop Blah]

Whilst a good suggestion, you have no idea how good a player is until they are in a first team situation. Reserve team and training doesn't provide a first team scenario.

I was meaning a first team football at championship level really, but even then you don't know if they'll make the step up when in the Prem.

So, just to clarify you want us to loan out a loaned player?

No, I said thats where you let players get the experience required to learn the game and to progress. You can throw them in at the deep end like we have Bikey, but personally I don't think that is best for most players or for most teams they play for.

As for Bikey not being a defender, I'll agree he doesn't look that comfortable there at the moment, but that is the position we signed him to play and it is the position he sees himself playing in. In an interview after the Liverpool cup game Bikey said that he doesn't train as a midfielder and hasn't really played there very much in the past. Midfield may be his more natural position though.

[International Royal]

As SC has said he is a "work in progress" and has shown enough here and there to have potential. I actually felt he may have sensed the crowd's anxiety when the ball was near him and hence rushed and sliced a few clearances but still got in some good blocks and headers and his cross-field pass to Hunt was one of the best bits of a game that was not blessed with many memorable moments.

TE - I don't know how you can think was a poor game. It was end to end, a bit like a cup tie, loads of attempts at goal, plus 5 goals. Wigan probably had the equal of it until the 60 min mark when they lost Heskey. Both teams could have scored 7 each last night - thoroughly enjoyable stuff with the right end result.

For me that was entertainment (because Wigan wanted the 3 points) and better than the average Prem game. Whereas Sheff U was a poor game and Everton away I thought was dire.

Bikey, he's got the tools, he needs the experience. I think he can make the grade.

[brendywendy]

As SC has said he is a "work in progress" and has shown enough here and there to have potential. I actually felt he may have sensed the crowd's anxiety when the ball was near him and hence rushed and sliced a few clearances but still got in some good blocks and headers and his cross-field pass to Hunt was one of the best bits of a game that was not blessed with many memorable moments.

TE - I don't know how you can think was a poor game. It was end to end, a bit like a cup tie, loads of attempts at goal, plus 5 goals. Wigan probably had the equal of it until the 60 min mark when they lost Heskey. Both teams could have scored 7 each last night - thoroughly enjoyable stuff with the right end result.

For me that was entertainment (because Wigan wanted the 3 points) and better than the average Prem game. Whereas Sheff U was a poor game and Everton away I thought was dire.

Bikey, he's got the tools, he needs the experience. I think he can make the grade.

i agree

definately not seen enough to make a decision yet
i was calling sonko 50 p head when he arrived, and now look at him
bikey is our new 50 p head and if hes as good as sonko by next season ill be happy

[Tilehurst End]

As SC has said he is a "work in progress" and has shown enough here and there to have potential. I actually felt he may have sensed the crowd's anxiety when the ball was near him and hence rushed and sliced a few clearances but still got in some good blocks and headers and his cross-field pass to Hunt was one of the best bits of a game that was not blessed with many memorable moments.

TE - I don't know how you can think was a poor game. It was end to end, a bit like a cup tie, loads of attempts at goal, plus 5 goals. Wigan probably had the equal of it until the 60 min mark when they lost Heskey. Both teams could have scored 7 each last night - thoroughly enjoyable stuff with the right end result.

For me that was entertainment (because Wigan wanted the 3 points) and better than the average Prem game. Whereas Sheff U was a poor game and Everton away I thought was dire.

Bikey, he's got the tools, he needs the experience. I think he can make the grade.

I guess I'm still living on the memory of the type of football we played against W.Ham but I guess you can't have that every week. I am just as pleased with the 3 points as everyone else but would rather have spent less time trying to spot the ball in the glare of the flood lights.

[Royal Rother]

There were 40 shots on goal last night. I doubt that will be beaten many times this season.

[Millsy]

It appears Bikey has come in for some pretty harsh criticism in other threads. Some people seem to forget that the guy is only 21 and is still very much learning his trade. He's going to make mistakes more regularly then most players. Also, any player that came in yesterday in Sonko's absence was always going to struggle simply because Wigan are so much bigger and physical than us all over the park. Bikey seemed to get better as the game wore on, very much playing like the "Sonko of old". Of course there's room for improvement, and yes he didn't have his best game last night but because of that suddenly people want him dropped?! Who would you prefer? Sodje? Halls? Alex Pearce was on the bench last night, but I'm afraid I don't feel he could have coped with the physical precence of Wigan's strikers! Bikey played bloody well against both Sheff Utd and Birmingham, but after one below par performance (and Bikey wasn't the only player who played poorly last night) people want him dropped. Fickle I tell thee!! Fickle!!

Good post.

He had some shocking moments but showed sheer quality in other moments - the ratio of good moments:shocking moments increased as the game progressed.

Overall wouldn't be contender for MOTM yesterday, but definitely has potential.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

There were 40 shots on goal last night. I doubt that will be beaten many times this season.

Are those official figures, or did Nick Ive just drop his abacus when Bikeys back header hit the stanch?

[Royal Rother]

http://orange.sportbox.tv/football/matc ... id=3033439

[Question Mark]

FYI: I've decided to call him 'Hyacinth Bikey' from now on

[AthleticoSpizz]

It appears Bikey has come in for some pretty harsh criticism in other threads. Some people seem to forget that the guy is only 21 and is still very much learning his trade. He's going to make mistakes more regularly then most players. Also, any player that came in yesterday in Sonko's absence was always going to struggle simply because Wigan are so much bigger and physical than us all over the park. Bikey seemed to get better as the game wore on, very much playing like the "Sonko of old". Of course there's room for improvement, and yes he didn't have his best game last night but because of that suddenly people want him dropped?! Who would you prefer? Sodje? Halls? Alex Pearce was on the bench last night, but I'm afraid I don't feel he could have coped with the physical precence of Wigan's strikers! Bikey played bloody well against both Sheff Utd and Birmingham, but after one below par performance (and Bikey wasn't the only player who played poorly last night) people want him dropped. Fickle I tell thee!! Fickle!!

Good post.

He had some shocking moments but showed sheer quality in other moments - the ratio of good moments:shocking moments increased as the game progressed.

Overall wouldn't be contender for MOTM yesterday, but definitely has potential.

Agree.

In the first half Bikey had obviously been told to man-mark Heskey and was quite literally trying to stick to him like glue during the set pieces (subsequently getting pulled all around the place). On more than one occasion, Lita was left marking two men in what could be percieved to be our "left backs" territory.

[ohagerup]

These skills come with (years of) experience of playing at centre back - I don't think he or we have the time to let him develop them to the level required.

If young players can't be given time to develop, what do we need the youth academy for? Or young unproven players in general?

[Platypuss]

Platypuss, I guess you would have said the same thing about Sonko if we had been in The Premiership when he arrived.

If we can't give youngsters, who show the ability that Bikey has so far, the chance to develop then we might as well just sign a whole bunch of Duberrys and have done with it.

Do you really expect Halford to look as good as Murty after 400 minutes of Premiership football?

I don't think you understood my point.

Sonko has played centre-back all his career.

Bikey has been a jack-of-all-trades - he has to learn how to be a dedicated centre-back before he can become a better one.