Dolan: 'Academy is a success'...but Gooding's unconvinced

[Royalee]

In the English Premier League, The League Managers Association Manager of the Year Award is an annual award given to a manager from any division for his achievements in the prior season.
The award is voted by fellow professional managers...

2005-06 Steve Coppell, Reading
2006-07 Steve Coppell, Reading

In 2003/4 Reading started the season in the Football League Championship
In 2008/9 Reading started the season in the Football League Championship

2005/6 Reading win the Championship with a record points total
2006/7 Reading play in the Premier League
2007/8 Reading play in the Premier League

We could do this all day. Sadly I'm not a useless idle student and actually have work to do, being a productive member of society and having people who require my help to improve their quality of life.

Yeah, whatever.

[SpaceCruiser]

The HNA? Team board gibberish award is an annual award which is given to Royalee every year by his "peers". This is despite heavy pressure from Spacecruiser (bleatings on the french and arsenal) and RTFCDrummer (being educationally subnormal)

OI!

I'd have expected SDR and Thou Voice to be well ahead of me in the stakes for that award.

I ignore them, sorry.

Then I suggest that you put Royalee on your ignore list - I have. Life is so much better for not reading his gibbersh.

[Bucks Dave]

At the last fans forum SC made a couple of points not raised on here.

1) The more promising youngsters had gone on loan but had not managed to establish themselves in a lower league team. There is an implication there that the club got reports on how they coped in a real footballing contest from those clubs.

2) Mr M does not only invest in the academy to cut down on transfer fees. He is genuinely keen to help local youngsters and is prepared to pay out to give the Reading area kids a chance at big time football.

I remember also Alan Pardew similarly holding back the youngsters because premature use could do them a lot more damage than the more seasoned pro. And Wenger was regularly criticised for not playing Walcott because he felt he was not ready.

Having said that I'm with Mick Gooding. Surely there must be one youngster in our area with great talent??

[Dirk Gently]

At the last fans forum SC made a couple of points not raised on here.

1) The more promising youngsters had gone on loan but had not managed to establish themselves in a lower league team. There is an implication there that the club got reports on how they coped in a real footballing contest from those clubs.

2) Mr M does not only invest in the academy to cut down on transfer fees. He is genuinely keen to help local youngsters and is prepared to pay out to give the Reading area kids a chance at big time football.

I remember also Alan Pardew similarly holding back the youngsters because premature use could do them a lot more damage than the more seasoned pro. And Wenger was regularly criticised for not playing Walcott because he felt he was not ready.

Having said that I'm with Mick Gooding. Surely there must be one youngster in our area with great talent??

Agreed - although pardew later admitted that he'd made a big mistake by not playing taking a risk on Shorey a lot earlier than he did.

[andrew1957]

It is certainly true that few players have come through the Reading Academy in the past but I do think that Dolan has done a great job since he has been there but it takes years to see the fruits.

Therefore, I think we should reserve judgement as to how successful the Academy has been during the last few seasons until the end of next season.

We currently have 6 Academy products who could play a part next season - Hamer, Henry, Kanu, Karacan, Pearce and Golbourne (originally with Bristol to be fair but has been at Reading since he was 16). There are also other good prospects like Sigurdsson coming through.

I can understand SC not wanting to ruin their potential in the PL as a good young player's confidence could be damaged by a disastrous start BUT I do expect some of our younger players to make an impact in the Championship. If none do now that we are playing at alower level - then I would agree that serious questions need to be asked as to whether the system works at all.

[papereyes]

Therefore, I think we should reserve judgement as to how successful the Academy has been during the last few seasons until the end of next season.

Although I do agree with most of what you're saying, there's a bit of me who finds putting off a decision until some later date rather funny. Especially given many of the arguments over the past season were of the nature "nothing we can judge on now, let's see where we are after 38 games" and were quickly replaced with "well, there's no point crying, let's see where we are in (enter another utterly arbitary unit of time)"

Why not try to see if we could do better NOW and implement those improvements over a year?

At the heart of this is the fact that we cannot simply close the academy down. The options really should be improve it, improve the intake of players or do nothing. One of those is a really bad, yet seemingly popular choice.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

I've said before I know, but the academy was terrible until Hammond took over, an utter joke, run by people who didn't know what they were doing.

It's only been made right in the last few years.

I think 4 - 6 of next years 16 year olds have played for England at schoolboy level.

Coppell trust issues always cause a problem, it's the same with new signings.

[Uke]

It is certainly true that few players have come through the Reading Academy in the past but I do think that Dolan has done a great job since he has been there but it takes years to see the fruits.

Therefore, I think we should reserve judgement as to how successful the Academy has been during the last few seasons until the end of next season.

We currently have 6 Academy products who could play a part next season - Hamer, Henry, Kanu, Karacan, Pearce and Golbourne (originally with Bristol to be fair but has been at Reading since he was 16). There are also other good prospects like Sigurdsson coming through.

I can understand SC not wanting to ruin their potential in the PL as a good young player's confidence could be damaged by a disastrous start BUT I do expect some of our younger players to make an impact in the Championship. If none do now that we are playing at alower level - then I would agree that serious questions need to be asked as to whether the system works at all.

The problem I see is that as soon as we show our cards there is a good chance that the big 4 sharks will come and pick them up for next to nothing compared to an established player.

If our youth players had been a success in the Prem last sason they would all be being picked off one by one in this close season.

[floyd__streete]

I do expect some of our younger players to make an impact in the Championship.

Given that you assured us all along that we wouldn't even be in the Championship next season, Andrew, I am sure that your latest assertions fill us all with precisely zero confidence.

Police Academy > Reading FC academy.

[Arch]

I'm not sure I understand the point of this debate. Reading FC is a club with several levels of teams: first team, reserves, academy scholars, U-18 all the way down to U-10 is it? women's team. It's a big community club. Obviously it would be best if we had a consistent feed of one or two players a year who were part of the first team squad and a handful of regulars (Boro being the standard example), and it would be nice to come up with a Walcott, Bale, Ramsey to bring in some nice North London dosh along the way. but if that's not happening (yet or ever) why do supporters of RFC really give that much of a shit. It's not your money. Funny how it's often the people who claim JM is a tightwad with no ambition who also crow about the academy being a waste of money. Take it or leave it. Right now, Pearce is borderline and the others are less than borderline. Would that it were different but you work with who you've got. Our academy and academy-based reserve teams are terrifically competitive, suggesting the coaches are doing a great job. Means nothing at first-team level.

[Ian Royal]

Given that to get use out of the academy you need to put players through from an early age... say 10 for arguements sake. You have to ask the question where were we 6-8 years ago (the time the current crop would in theory have been recruited).

We were either in tier 3 or had just been promoted to tier 2. Now how you can expect us to attract youngsters with premiership/top quality championship prospects in decent numbers at that time I really don't know.

Boro have been in the top flight or challenging for it for the last 10 or more years. No wonder they are bringing through talant good enough. I agree the next couple of years are crucial for the academy. Youngsters who had the potential to play at this level would have been attracted to us from about 4-6 years ago. Before they'd have gone to Palace or another much bigger club. On top of that the academy has been running for a while and the creases are likely to have been ironed out. Weaknesses in approach lessened. Lessons learnt.

IMO the next 2 - 3 years are the key to whether it has worked. No one comes through in that time then's it's an expensive way of giving local kids a crack at professional football. Given in previous years we've had 1 or 2 prospects with any hope of making it into the first team, the signs are good as we currently have about 6.

Recently those who failed to make it with us have gone on to play elsewhere.... Ashdown, Henderson, Tyson. Where did the players 5 years ago go? Boreham Wood? No where?

Improvements are ongoing. Academy's in their very nature do not produce instant results, they are forward thinking and long term projects.

Had we not got to tier 2 we'd have brought through Tyson, Henderson and Ashdown, possibly others and they wouldn't have been very important players for us.

[howser]

There are certainly going to be reservations about the value of the Academy as, Yes, it hasnt produced any home grown regular first team players, however, apart from the superb Man Utd of the Beckham, Neville bros, Butt etc........I am struggling to bring to mind many if any Premiership or Championship sides have teams full of regular first teamers who have come through thier respective academies, there is always going to be a high percentage of wastage at the junior level and the higher league a team plays in well the ability and maturity of the youngsters has to be of the highest quality, certainly if we were in the "lower leagues" then several of the youngsters would undoubtedly be regular first teamers.

[Southbank Old Boy]

The arguement that we were in the 3rd teir a few years ago and so we've only had 3rd teir intake just doesn't hold up to me.

Clubs up and down the country produce players good enough for clubs further up the tree to go out and buy. If you could only attract players who would ever be good enough to play int he division you were in when you signed them you'd never see players moving up the leagues.

If the talent coming into our youth setup hasn't been good enough it's because our academy hasn't been good enough to attract them, not because of the position of the first team.

Our youth set up have been pretty ineffective for donkey's years. We've produced very few players who've gone on to make a living at any professional level, and none in the last 10 years who've gone on the make a real contribution to our first team.

The success of the first team over the last few years does play a part because Coppell and Pardew before him have had very few meaningless games to blood the youngsters. However, I do think that both Pardew, and to an even greater extent Coppell just haven't been brave enough to gamble on giving the youth a chance. They might never be good enough but then they might just surprise you at the same time. They certainly couldn't have done worse than a lot of our senior pro's at times over the last 18 months.

One thing that both Fergie and Wenger have shown over their times as managers is that they're willing to take a risk by playing youngsters. Fergie has blooded and stuck by some pretty average and poor players in his time in an attempt to give them time to learn and prove themselves. Players like Chadwick, Wallwork through to Beardsmore and Martin were all given a chance before slipping down the leagues. It would be nice to see our youth products given the same opportunities.

[glass half full]

Some years ago, Southampton were a Premiership side and were able, in comparison with Reading, to attract players like Walcott from a geographical area nearer to Reading than Southampton. Although, by all accounts, Southampton still have a good Academy set-up, it will be harder for them to attract young talent, given their current status.

Reading, however, have only just lost Premiership status and, to some young players and parents, would appear attractive. Whatever happens - and I do not subscribe to the idea that good young players will just become fodder for the top teams- it is up to the young players who have talent to show the correct attitude and work hard to progress. Given the high standard of the coaching team in the Academy, I remain confident.

By the way, does anyone remember when Southampton used to advertise their forthcoming games in the bottom left-hand corner of the EP? No sign of that now!

[Southbank Old Boy]

Some years ago, Southampton were a Premiership side and were able, in comparison with Reading, to attract players like Walcott from a geographical area nearer to Reading than Southampton. Although, by all accounts, Southampton still have a good Academy set-up, it will be harder for them to attract young talent, given their current status.

Reading, however, have only just lost Premiership status and, to some young players and parents, would appear attractive. Whatever happens - and I do not subscribe to the idea that good young players will just become fodder for the top teams- it is up to the young players who have talent to show the correct attitude and work hard to progress. Given the high standard of the coaching team in the Academy, I remain confident.

By the way, does anyone remember when Southampton used to advertise their forthcoming games in the bottom left-hand corner of the EP? No sign of that now!

But why did he choose Southampton at the time?

Personally I think it's probably because of the reputation of the academy not the first team. From what I understand Theo had the chance to go elsewhere, such as Chelsea, but opted for Southampton.

There is no doubt that we lose talented players from the Reading area to the likes of Southampton, Palace and Chelsea. I don't think it's based on the position of the first team though.

[Badger Finger]

No, but it is the perceived size of club.

[Southbank Old Boy]

No, but it is the perceived size of club.

Personally I think it's more the perceived quality of the academy and the perceived chances of progression and where will give the kid their best chance of making it as a pro.

If not then how do the likes of Crewe consistently get the quality of entrants into their system?

Reading have a pretty crap record and that holds back our future chances of success.

[Ian Royal]

No, but it is the perceived size of club.

Personally I think it's more the perceived quality of the academy and the perceived chances of progression and where will give the kid their best chance of making it as a pro.

If not then how do the likes of Crewe consistently get the quality of entrants into their system?

Reading have a pretty crap record and that holds back our future chances of success.

Crewe have been bringing players through for decades so have an outsanding reputation, not only that but they don't have the finances to buy in talent so as a youth you know you've got a bloody good chance of getting first team football. Which makes you a much better prospect for other teams higher up to then buy. Even Crewe don't bring through more than a couple of players every few seasons who go on to much bigger or better things. Certainly not without having to cut their teeth in the lower leagues for a while getting valuable match experience.

Reputation for academy is likely to have little to do with a kid picking whether to go to Premier League Saints or League 1 Reading. It's a total no brainer!

[rfcjoe]

Naz Bashir has somehow been recommended to be put into the England u21 set-up joke or what!?
When I was in the academy and he took sessions he spoke the most shit ever and didn't really have a clue tbh. He only likes players with flair even if they don't work hard or show commitment - its all about tricks and skills .

[Southbank Old Boy]

No, but it is the perceived size of club.

Personally I think it's more the perceived quality of the academy and the perceived chances of progression and where will give the kid their best chance of making it as a pro.

If not then how do the likes of Crewe consistently get the quality of entrants into their system?

Reading have a pretty crap record and that holds back our future chances of success.

Crewe have been bringing players through for decades so have an outsanding reputation, not only that but they don't have the finances to buy in talent so as a youth you know you've got a bloody good chance of getting first team football. Which makes you a much better prospect for other teams higher up to then buy. Even Crewe don't bring through more than a couple of players every few seasons who go on to much bigger or better things. Certainly not without having to cut their teeth in the lower leagues for a while getting valuable match experience.

Reputation for academy is likely to have little to do with a kid picking whether to go to Premier League Saints or League 1 Reading. It's a total no brainer!

But according to you kids go to Crewe because they stand a better chance of getting through to the first team...so where is the "no brainer" between "Premier League Saints or League 1 Reading?" You can't have it both ways!

It's all about how good the academy is for most parents and ours has had a bad reputation for a long long time. It might be better these days, although I know of parents who've chosen Southampton over Reading in the last year or so because of what other parents have said recently, but it won't really improve until we start to produce a decent number of professional players.