Back from the game - Swansea (A)

[Woodcote Royal]

What will the "yes-men" say when we get smashed 0-5 by Sheffield United at home?
Will they still say it's too soon for rational thought, it's too early to tell if the team is playing shit football?

That it's early days and BR only has so much time to ensure that we don't get involved in a relegation dog fight.

Having taken this route, I believe a mid table finish will be deemed very acceptable and would allow for the odd 5-0 thrashing.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

I believe I'm right in saying that Upson's first match for us was in the League Cup at Cambridge.

.

poor memory there, first appearance was against Rotherham, first full game was against Cambridge, when he and Kitson scored!!

Mills will be fine, folk are using the fee as an example as to how great he should be, he is stepping up a bit, takes a while.

[papereyes]

AP

06/07 was Boro, Villa, Wigan, City, Sheffield United, Manchester United

3 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses.

The only disappointment was Wigan away. I was in Wales. We played Sodje.

07/08 was United, Chelsea, Everton [at which point, we looked pretty solid - brave draw, narrow loss, solid win - in a tough start] and then we got horsed, horsed and goosed by Bolton, West Ham and Sunderland.

I think it was the West Ham game that turned me to 'The Dark Side' - we made Etherington look like a Brazilian.

[Alan Partridge]

AP

06/07 was Boro, Villa, Wigan, City, Sheffield United, Manchester United

3 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses.

The only disappointment was Wigan away. I was in Wales. We played Sodje.

07/08 was United, Chelsea, Everton [at which point, we looked pretty solid - brave draw, narrow loss, solid win - in a tough start] and then we got horsed, horsed and goosed by Bolton, West Ham and Sunderland.

I think it was the West Ham game that turned me to 'The Dark Side' - we made Etherington look like a Brazilian.

I'm not very good with dates and stuff so nice one, I too missed the Wigan game the only game i missed that year. I'd seen enough in the first two games,then obviously the following 3 to suggest we could comepte in the Prem that year.

My own personal concerns were after we got drubbed 3-1 at Fulham the second season but the Bolton game definitely sparked the over reaction thread.

[Woodcote Royal]

Well, yes, because he wasn't going to be screaming for his money back when the great chunk hadn't been paid yet.

Seriously, are people this stupid in real life?

He could still have screamed for the return of the trifling sum of £5m as opposed to £18m (not that anyone would have been stupid enough to have assumed the whole sum was paid up front anyway ) and if you feel this has a huge impact on the point I was making, perhaps it's you who isn't the sharpest knife in the draw.

[Platypuss]

Slight difference when we are relying on Mills to come good, and fast. Not the case with Walcott.

[rfc58]

Having witnessed all three games so far, I hope I am being "glass half empty" as so far we look somewhat clueless.

Yes I know its a new system etc, and it takes time, but a question was posed by Mick Gooding accoring to a listener last night, are the players good enough to master the plan ? I am not so sure.

Yes three games doesn't summerise the season, but in my humble, we are more than one player short of a good team.

My worry is, we will sign say Smith, and think that's the total answer, (and I think he will do OK), BUT, if he loses form, gets injured etc, we could be reliant on one player, and that as everyone knows is NOT healthy.

I hope Buck see's Kebe for what he is, tries from time to time, but sorry, he is NOT a footballer.

Any forward is only as good as the service, and I doubt bloody Kaka would score for fun with the service we are putting/or NOT putting in the box.

Being old enough to remember the years when we bounced between the 3rd and 4th divisions, I accept without JM we'd most probably be still doing this, but its a crying shame to see us move the club forward over the last say 6 seasons, and throw it away simply because of lack of investment.

People are quick to say SC was partly to blame for not spending the money on offer, and I do see that arguement, but another factor that may be true, he always said he'd never buy a player that was no better than he already had, sensible thinking, but if the money available to him in transfers/wages etc meant the players he needed were out of reach, it became a chicken and egg scenario.

Normally you get what you pay for, I have friends who are season ticket holders at Cardiff, they spend 4 million on Chopra, and believe he will either be the top scorer in the Championship, or within 5 goals of the top spot, not cheap but he has proven himself to find the net. They have bought him after shelling out for a new stadium.

I think our attitude of buying players with "something to prove" etc is good, but flawed. Having desire is not the total solution, bloody hell, I had desire, but that never got me past an apprenticeship stage with a club.

If we had never got the transfer money in we have in the last 12/18 months, I'd agree it could be stupid to go chase the dream, but we've had THE best opportunity ever to move the club on, and we have/are failing to take it.

Some people are happy to accept the "brick by brick" approach, after all, it wasn't too long ago we were a Div 1 side etc, and I do see that arguement, but anyone who is in business must realise you need to have ambition, sensible ambition mind you, not the attitude of throwing money at something, but you have to spend to grow, and once again, in my humble, we are not prepared to spend what is needed to kick on.

If you put sub standard parts in an engine, don't be surprised if it packs up.

[ZacNaloen]

Slight difference when we are relying on Mills to come good, and fast. Not the case with Walcott.

Mills hasn't had a pre-season. He's going to be rusty. He'll get better.

[Woodcote Royal]

I believe I'm right in saying that Upson's first match for us was in the League Cup at Cambridge.

.

poor memory there, first appearance was against Rotherham, first full game was against Cambridge, when he and Kitson scored!!

Mills will be fine, folk are using the fee as an example as to how great he should be, he is stepping up a bit, takes a while.

Fair enough.

I know he scored at Cambridge but other than that he looked very rusty and far from match fit.

[Vision]

Heard the same stuff two years ago gr8 m8, reLOLegation ensued.

And the year before that after getting beaten at Wigan. We finished 8th.

End of the day keep predicting failure or success and eventually it'll come true. However actually making informed judgements about the whole season after 3 games is a bit mental.

I think usually the first 5-6 games or so can set the tone for the season, it's where I'd even go as far to say that results are secondary to performances. The 8th place year we'd beaten Boro, beaten Sheff U, narrowly lost against Villa unluckily and had we played CHelsea? If so again spirited effort.

Relegation year was the opposite,trounced at Bolton was the one that sparked the 'over reaction' thread.

So far it's been more like that season than the unlucky but spirited start of the 8th place. But it's only 3 matches. A decent win against Sheffield utd and it's a reasonable return 5 points from 4.

And it was after the 3rd game at Wigan which had pretty much the same reaction on these boards as now. People predicting a hard slog against relegation.

Our 3rd game last season was the Charlton one. Schards infamous "no progress for the foreseeable future" thread was after the 5th game at Ipswich. We were 12th. The 6th game we won 6-0.

Theres no doubt that there are concerns at the moment, as there always are to be honest, but really to make the judgments and assumptions people do on here (whichever side of the optimist/pessimist side they sit) about a new side with a new manager after just 3 matches is a bit daft.

No amount of very selective "I told you so's" from the past can change that as far as I'm concerned.

[strap]

Heard the same stuff two years ago gr8 m8, reLOLegation ensued.

I think usually the first 5-6 games or so can set the tone for the season

[/quote]

Bang on the button here AP. I also seem to remember similar platitudes being spouted about Terry the Taxi on the old RoyalMail lists, (remember them!?)

Your second point is also spot on. I did a bit of a stats thing a few years ago that suggested that over 50% of teams in the whole league do not finish more then five places up or down from where they were after 6 games into the season. Hardly scientific I know, and 50% is only 50% and 5 places up will take us up to lower mid-table, but you get my drift!

Roll on Saturday!!

[Plymouth_Royal]

£2M makes him one of our most expensive signings ever.
There have been very few players signed by us for that kind of money.

I think it is fair to say most people have certain expectations when a player is signed for such a big sum of money.

As quite rightly mentioned earlier mills has had 45 mins of pre-season as hes been recovering from injury/surgery. He needs match sharpness. Give the guy a break and judge him after more than 2 games for us.

[Royal Lady]

Some could argue that being prepared to pay up to £2 million for a player who we knew was crocked when we got him, was a sign of desperation.

[ZacNaloen]

Some could argue that being prepared to pay up to £2 million for a player who we knew was crocked when we got him, was a sign of desperation.

Christ, he isn't crocked now. he just hasn't had a preseason, can't you read?

[Royal Lady]

when did "pre-season" finish?

Was he or was he not "unfit" when we signed him, having previously had an op for an injury and not having trained since end of last season?

[Royalee]

Some could argue that being prepared to pay up to £2 million for a player who we knew was crocked when we got him, was a sign of desperation.

Some would argue that calling off a transfer for a player you've been tracking for months on the basis that they have a knock and need a couple of weeks to get fitness when the season's barely started anyway is the thinking of a moron.

[Dirk Gently]

Some could argue that being prepared to pay up to £2 million for a player who we knew was crocked when we got him, was a sign of desperation.

Some would argue that calling off a transfer for a player you've been tracking for months on the basis that they have a knock and need a couple of weeks to get fitness when the season's barely started anyway is the thinking of a moron.

Kitson!

[Royal Lady]

How long has he been with us?

[Hoop Blah]

Some could argue that being prepared to pay up to £2 million for a player who we knew was crocked when we got him, was a sign of desperation.

It's a sign of desperation wanting him to be the immediate fix.

We've bought Mills as a long term investment not just a player for the first few games of the season. Is that really that hard to grasp?

[Royalee]

I was trying to think of one, cheers. He was a desperate signing wasn't he RL? Never any good for us - sounds like you know about as much about successful football as Delia Smith.