Next Reading Manager

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Can’t really see any players who are playing for their futures here. Nyland /Thomas/ Barker maybe but other than that there really aren’t any.
Likewise the last couple of games will have zero relevance to whether Ince gets offered / accepts a long term contract. He’s done all he was asked to do, if he’s not the right man now a couple of wins won’t make him the right man. Perhaps a couple of good wins might persuade him to stay on and might persuade a couple of players to stay but tgat’s Very different from them needing to impress to get new deals.

It depends how they look at it. 2 wins in the last games will make him look a lot better than 2 defeats or 2 draws, his record will look significantly better. Yes, just looking at the 2 wins won't, but looking at his overall record, it will make a difference. Whether that means he will get the job or not is a different question.

The players that are playing for their futures here are all of those who are out of contract. Just because they are free to discuss contracts with other suitors doesn't mean they aren't playing for their futures here, what is to say that we aren't offering the best deals for them all things considered at the moment? Given our situation, I'd be reluctant to say we'd just offer contracts to players if they aren't performing, just to keep them on.

I really don’t think it will work like that. The players hold all the cards currently. We won’t be deciding whether to offer Yiadom a new deal over the next 2 games, and we won’t be finding him another £500 if he plays well.
It seems much more unlikely that we would offer a player a deal just because they do well in 2 dead rubbers than we would base it on what they have done over 2-3 years and their potential. We won’t be offering any deals ‘ just to keep players on’. Every player we resign has to be value for money, but every one will probably be able to earn more elsewhere.

I'm not saying we will, but we will look at this collectively, which these 2 games do still account for, so players who want to stay will still "want" to perform in these last couple of games. For example, Yiadom has been good since Ince has arrived, so he will want to have a good couple of games so we can say "Yiadom has had a strong end to the season" as opposed to "Yiadom was good but tailed off once we were safe".

Everyone could earn more elsewhere, but it depends who is interested and to what "cost" to the player. As mentioned, some players are settled here, are doing pretty well and could probably earn more than what they are currently on now, in the case of Rino and Holmes for example, where we can offer more than they are currently on.

We are restricted, but not to the point where we can't improve some players' deals depending on what they are currently on.

[Hound]

There’s nothing at all to stop us offering something like the following is there

2 year contract
Year 1: 8k pw
Year 2: 16k pw if we’re champ still

Obvs not something we’d want to go overboard on but sure it’s an option that may well help us

[windermereROYAL]

Or an under the table brown envelope.

[Stranded]

There’s nothing at all to stop us offering something like the following is there

2 year contract
Year 1: 8k pw
Year 2: 16k pw if we’re champ still

Obvs not something we’d want to go overboard on but sure it’s an option that may well help us

Depends if the EFL have to ratify any contracts that get signed. They may well decline to do so if deals are structured like that, as we'll likely just end up back where we are today. Look at Birmingham for example, back in a similar mess to a few years back.

We could of course have a separate signed agreement with the player to review contracts again once we are out from under the restrictions.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

There’s nothing at all to stop us offering something like the following is there

2 year contract
Year 1: 8k pw
Year 2: 16k pw if we’re champ still

Obvs not something we’d want to go overboard on but sure it’s an option that may well help us

Maybe not to that extreme but I don't see why performance-based bonuses cannot be added into players' deals anyway, which to me would be the way to go to incentivise good performance from each individual player that would benefit the team collectively.

[URZZZZ]

It is both possible to hold the position that this season was shit and also celebrate the fact that things were turned around after VP left so as not to be a total disaster.

You can say this about most of the previous seasons though. At some point, we have to achieve more than fail with one manager, change the manager, have a purple patch before starting the cycle all over again

Stam to Clement, Clement to Gomes, Gomes to Bowen, Bowen to Paunovic, Paunovic to Ince. All of them “got us over the line” before ultimately struggling

More so, it questions the players overall mentality that they only turn up in certain moments. We all know Paunovic was really poor towards the end. But the players visibly gave up on occasions. It’s the same thing every season and it isn’t good enough

[Nameless]

There’s nothing at all to stop us offering something like the following is there

2 year contract
Year 1: 8k pw
Year 2: 16k pw if we’re champ still

Obvs not something we’d want to go overboard on but sure it’s an option that may well help us

Maybe not to that extreme but I don't see why performance-based bonuses cannot be added into players' deals anyway, which to me would be the way to go to incentivise good performance from each individual player that would benefit the team collectively.

But you still have to pay for them. If the business plan we have to work to says our wage budget for a season is £16 million we can’t ignore bonuses, we would have to only offer £12 million in wages to allow for bonuses. That means offering players a lower guaranteed wage and making it less likely they would stay.

[Stranded]

It is both possible to hold the position that this season was shit and also celebrate the fact that things were turned around after VP left so as not to be a total disaster.

You can say this about most of the previous seasons though. At some point, we have to achieve more than fail with one manager, change the manager, have a purple patch before starting the cycle all over again

Stam to Clement, Clement to Gomes, Gomes to Bowen, Bowen to Paunovic, Paunovic to Ince. All of them “got us over the line” before ultimately struggling

More so, it questions the players overall mentality that they only turn up in certain moments. We all know Paunovic was really poor towards the end. But the players visibly gave up on occasions. It’s the same thing every season and it isn’t good enough

You won't catch me disagreeing - we need more than just changing the manger - we need structure. Anyone we hire next, Ince or A N Other, will hit the same problems if we don't sort out the structure. It's partly why I lean toward Ince staying (if he wants) as at least he is in place now rather than wasting time and having to trust the current ownership not to cock it up again.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

There’s nothing at all to stop us offering something like the following is there

2 year contract
Year 1: 8k pw
Year 2: 16k pw if we’re champ still

Obvs not something we’d want to go overboard on but sure it’s an option that may well help us

Maybe not to that extreme but I don't see why performance-based bonuses cannot be added into players' deals anyway, which to me would be the way to go to incentivise good performance from each individual player that would benefit the team collectively.

But you still have to pay for them. If the business plan we have to work to says our wage budget for a season is £16 million we can’t ignore bonuses, we would have to only offer £12 million in wages to allow for bonuses. That means offering players a lower guaranteed wage and making it less likely they would stay.

True but it depends what the bonuses are, if they are realistic etc. I was also speaking more in respect to when the restrictions of the business plan are lifted after next season is done as well where we could be more flexible to what we can offer.

Again though, in terms of wages it ultimately comes down to what they are currently on now. I think someone posted figures of wages a few weeks ago that had Rino on about £2k a week (which I personally couldn't believe), we could easily quadruple his wages to go to £8k a week and still be well within our guidelines whilst keeping a good player.

[Nameless]

What might happen a year or two in the future really isn’t important in terms of sorting contracts now.
I’d be extremely surprised if Rino is on 2k and if he is we have no chance of resigning him.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Of course it's important to keeping players on now as it may mean we can offer players more incentives and better deals. Correct me if I've got it wrong, but are we only capable of offering players a 12 month contract under our restrictions? If that's the case then yes, we probably do have little chance with a few players.

What makes you believe we've got no chance of keeping Rino on?

[OLLIE KEARNS]

Paul Ince has only "improved" us back to the level we were at for the first 3rd of the season in that we would finish 17th in both periods based on points per game. Based on the middle section form we would be relegated. On the one hand you have to give him credit for the change in momentum but you could also argue that he had the best of it in terms of player availability including having Joao back.
The stand out issue is that he hasn't improved our defending. Couple that with our likely need for lower league recruitment and his absence from the game for a long period of time and simple logic would say he probably isn't the right man for the job.
In fairness, he has probably earned a crack at the job but I could easily see it not working out very quickly. My thoughts would be turning to an Ainsworth type profile (don't think he'd leave Wycombe) but there is risk in any option we choose.
The other interesting discussion point is wanting to re sign some of the players that make up one of the worst defenses in the country. Are they going to improve with better tactics / coaching or are they actually the problem ?
One way or another I am actually looking forward to seeing how things work out next season.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Paul Ince has only "improved" us back to the level we were at for the first 3rd of the season in that we would finish 17th in both periods based on points per game. Based on the middle section form we would be relegated. On the one hand you have to give him credit for the change in momentum but you could also argue that he had the best of it in terms of player availability including having Joao back.
The stand out issue is that he hasn't improved our defending. Couple that with our likely need for lower league recruitment and his absence from the game for a long period of time and simple logic would say he probably isn't the right man for the job.
In fairness, he has probably earned a crack at the job but I could easily see it not working out very quickly. My thoughts would be turning to an Ainsworth type profile (don't think he'd leave Wycombe) but there is risk in any option we choose.
The other interesting discussion point is wanting to re sign some of the players that make up one of the worst defenses in the country. Are they going to improve with better tactics / coaching or are they actually the problem ?
One way or another I am actually looking forward to seeing how things work out next season.

Joao was back for Middlesboro, which was the second game in the run of defeats.

I accept the injuries argument to an extent, especially in Jan with Baba and Yids away, but we've had a fair few out recently, including some key players.

[Nameless]

Of course it's important to keeping players on now as it may mean we can offer players more incentives and better deals. Correct me if I've got it wrong, but are we only capable of offering players a 12 month contract under our restrictions? If that's the case then yes, we probably do have little chance with a few players.

What makes you believe we've got no chance of keeping Rino on?

We don’t know what restrictions we will be working under for next season , will depend how well we have done with finances this year. The agreement with the EFL runs to the end of 2022/3 but it doesn’t have much detail in the statement that was issued. I believe that some of the original terms have already been relaxed a little.
I didn’t say we have no chance of keeping Rino. If we’ve been paying him £2k for the last few years then why should he stay ? He’llgo somewhere he’s valued.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Of course it's important to keeping players on now as it may mean we can offer players more incentives and better deals. Correct me if I've got it wrong, but are we only capable of offering players a 12 month contract under our restrictions? If that's the case then yes, we probably do have little chance with a few players.

What makes you believe we've got no chance of keeping Rino on?

We don’t know what restrictions we will be working under for next season , will depend how well we have done with finances this year. The agreement with the EFL runs to the end of 2022/3 but it doesn’t have much detail in the statement that was issued. I believe that some of the original terms have already been relaxed a little.
I didn’t say we have no chance of keeping Rino. If we’ve been paying him £2k for the last few years then why should he stay ? He’llgo somewhere he’s valued.

We know some of this though, if we don't know how long we can offer a player a contract, then fair enough, but what is stopping us from offering someone a 2/3/4 year deal depending on what value we see in the player themselves? Unless our restrictions say otherwise.

I’d be extremely surprised if Rino is on 2k and if he is we have no chance of resigning him.

The point was we can offer him a better deal than what he is currently on, assuming that's his wage. As I mentioned above, we could potentially quadruple his wage to £8k a week as a starting offer. He may want £10-15k, we can work around that potentially, or not. It depends how much we value him really.

[Nameless]

Of course it's important to keeping players on now as it may mean we can offer players more incentives and better deals. Correct me if I've got it wrong, but are we only capable of offering players a 12 month contract under our restrictions? If that's the case then yes, we probably do have little chance with a few players.

What makes you believe we've got no chance of keeping Rino on?

We don’t know what restrictions we will be working under for next season , will depend how well we have done with finances this year. The agreement with the EFL runs to the end of 2022/3 but it doesn’t have much detail in the statement that was issued. I believe that some of the original terms have already been relaxed a little.
I didn’t say we have no chance of keeping Rino. If we’ve been paying him £2k for the last few years then why should he stay ? He’llgo somewhere he’s valued.

We know some of this though, if we don't know how long we can offer a player a contract, then fair enough, but what is stopping us from offering someone a 2/3/4 year deal depending on what value we see in the player themselves? Unless our restrictions say otherwise.

I’d be extremely surprised if Rino is on 2k and if he is we have no chance of resigning him.

The point was we can offer him a better deal than what he is currently on, assuming that's his wage. As I mentioned above, we could potentially quadruple his wage to £8k a week as a starting offer. He may want £10-15k, we can work around that potentially, or not. It depends how much we value him really.

Of course we might be able to offer him a better deal. But why would he take it ?
We have £16 million in player costs to play with, we have an average salary we have to stick to and we have existing contracts to honour. You can’t just randomly invent numbers for one player without knowing the overall picture.
Offering long contracts currently is risky because it gives us no control over future costs - see Liam Moore !

[YorkshireRoyal99]

For arguments sake, £16m a year means an average weekly wage of just under £12.5k, assuming we have a 25 man squad all earning the same. Let's say we take the signing on fees out of the equation which knocks it down to £11k a week, again for arguments sake, we could offer him our average wage that is more than 5x his current wage, why wouldn't he be tempted by that?

Offering long and stupid contracts like Liam Moore's is a problem because he is earning PL-like wages at a club that cannot sustain PL-like wages. It's not exactly stupid to offer a 3 year deal for Rino on £11k a week, it's a pretty respectable Championship wage all things considered. He may get better offers, he might not, but it's certainly competitive.

[windermereROYAL]

For arguments sake, £16m a year means an average weekly wage of just under £12.5k, assuming we have a 25 man squad all earning the same. Let's say we take the signing on fees out of the equation which knocks it down to £11k a week, again for arguments sake, we could offer him our average wage that is more than 5x his current wage, why wouldn't he be tempted by that?

Offering long and stupid contracts like Liam Moore's is a problem because he is earning PL-like wages at a club that cannot sustain PL-like wages. It's not exactly stupid to offer a 3 year deal for Rino on £11k a week, it's a pretty respectable Championship wage all things considered. He may get better offers, he might not, but it's certainly competitive.

It`s not just the playing staff on the payroll though is it?

[Hound]

For arguments sake, £16m a year means an average weekly wage of just under £12.5k, assuming we have a 25 man squad all earning the same. Let's say we take the signing on fees out of the equation which knocks it down to £11k a week, again for arguments sake, we could offer him our average wage that is more than 5x his current wage, why wouldn't he be tempted by that?

Offering long and stupid contracts like Liam Moore's is a problem because he is earning PL-like wages at a club that cannot sustain PL-like wages. It's not exactly stupid to offer a 3 year deal for Rino on £11k a week, it's a pretty respectable Championship wage all things considered. He may get better offers, he might not, but it's certainly competitive.

It`s not just the playing staff on the payroll though is it?

I might be wrong but I think it is. 16m for the playing staff

[YorkshireRoyal99]

For arguments sake, £16m a year means an average weekly wage of just under £12.5k, assuming we have a 25 man squad all earning the same. Let's say we take the signing on fees out of the equation which knocks it down to £11k a week, again for arguments sake, we could offer him our average wage that is more than 5x his current wage, why wouldn't he be tempted by that?

Offering long and stupid contracts like Liam Moore's is a problem because he is earning PL-like wages at a club that cannot sustain PL-like wages. It's not exactly stupid to offer a 3 year deal for Rino on £11k a week, it's a pretty respectable Championship wage all things considered. He may get better offers, he might not, but it's certainly competitive.

It`s not just the playing staff on the payroll though is it?

As Hound has mentioned, I think it is just applicable to playing staff. Unless that has changed in our business plan for next season.