Hard to see any progress for the forseeable future

[From Despair To Where?]

Anyone notice we had a bigger crowd than Brum?????


Potential is there, IMHO

Hopefully we will get about 20,000 for the Donny home game. With the way we are playing I don't see why not.

Tuesday night, against a club from Yorkshire who are one of the smallest in the league so won't have a large away following. We'll do well to get 19,000. Having said that, 4 years ago we'd have struggled to get 15,000 in similar circumstances so that's 4,000 Johnny-come-latelys who haven't fallen off the bandwagon. That's progress.

A reasonable comparison? 1/11/05, Sheffield Wednesday (H) W2-0, Attendance 16,185.

The season before, the week after we went top, we played Burnley on a Saturday in front of 15,400.

My point, if indeed, there is one? I know that we're doing well at the moment, but for a season which predicted so much doom and gloom, our attendances have held up so there must be plenty who see the seeds of something good. The signings have made an impact and the old spirit seems to be back and Coppell seems to be getting the tactics more or less spot on. Even the criticism of Madejski has died down. Amazing what a couple of wins does. Fickle? Us? Fair enough, it could all go tits up in January though but lets wait and see. West Brom held onto their star players in the Championship and their chairman has much the same attitude to Madejski so there's no reason why we can't do likewise.

[Uke]

Schards never defined 'foreseeable future' - how far into the future did he claim to see on 14th September? It could have been anything from 2 minutes to three years.

[Schards#2]

Schards never defined 'foreseeable future' - how far into the future did he claim to see on 14th September? It could have been anything from 2 minutes to three years.

The main concerns are:

a) chairman wants to sell
b) manager unlikely to stay beyond this season
c) top players looking for the exit

I can't tell you precicely when these may bite but a) and c) will impact in January and b) at the end of the season.

a) and b) will have a significant effect even if we get promoted as both will effect the quality of replacements following c)

[Uke]

Schards never defined 'foreseeable future' - how far into the future did he claim to see on 14th September? It could have been anything from 2 minutes to three years.

The main concerns are:

a) chairman wants to sell
b) manager unlikely to stay beyond this season
c) top players looking for the exit

I can't tell you precicely when these may bite but a) and c) will impact in January and b) at the end of the season.

a) and b) will have a significant effect even if we get promoted as both will effect the quality of replacements following c)

a) Yes, but he has always said "not to just anyone" and he is a Tory so we must trust him there. How do you assume it will happen in January in what will still be a global recession - even the Nigerians pulled out of the Newcastle deal. Also with so many Prem clubs up for sale who'd buy RFC?
b) Not sure where Coppell has actually said so, its speculation from around when we hit the Prem, so until it happens business as usual.
c) Crap replacements like Hunt and Armstrong? All bought to do a job at this level and to give us another shot

I would not like any to bite

[Ian Royal]

Schards never defined 'foreseeable future' - how far into the future did he claim to see on 14th September? It could have been anything from 2 minutes to three years.

The main concerns are:

a) chairman wants to sell
b) manager unlikely to stay beyond this season
c) top players looking for the exit

I can't tell you precicely when these may bite but a) and c) will impact in January and b) at the end of the season.

a) and b) will have a significant effect even if we get promoted as both will effect the quality of replacements following c)

a) didn't have much impact in 06-07 and I'd argue it didn't have a whole lot of impact in 07-08. Not compared to a lot of other things anyway.
b) is still very much in doubt. If Coppell manages to get us promoted then he may well stay, and if not, it would almost be an ideal time for someone new to take over. We'd be on the up and confident again. Coppell has shown his strength lies more in getting a team there than staying. Not That I'd necessarily want him to go. If he doesn't get us up then him going really isn't that big a deal IMO. The stabilising job will have well and truely been done. Unless you think we're going to fall away massively and end up lower than 12th.
c) is a significant danger, but we can make certain we get good prices and with the previous transfer fees used to offset the decrease in income and various debts as they seem to have been, we'll have a freer hand to spend a higher percentage.

Realistically we can see the likes of Doyle, SHunt, Harper & Bikey going. Marek is still making very little impact so isn't likely to attract a massive amount of attention. Bikey I have my doubts about as he has relatively few appearances. I think we could wack a big tag on him and hold on. Doyle and Hunt are the two main worries as I think our midfield looks capable of surviving the loss of Harper.

Hard to replace, but we're likely to get a large payout for them. Somewhere in the region of £10m I'd guess and even assuming we bank half that, £5m is a decent amount to split between two replacements. And if we're looking good for promotion we'll find it easier to recruit names than the summer. We've been there before and we'll be showing we can go back again.

[Matt de K]

Well whatever happens I know I will still be supporting RFC. I won't be moaning that this isn't right and that is wrong - I'm not saying that I couldn't care less - just know that I'm not going to be able to change anything whatsoever. It's not my money - what possibly could I do? I know that JM has put some very firm foundations down for this club, and as a fan, I am very grateful. We have a nice stadium and an awesome training ground, we have a good manager and a very good squad. If people leave then fair enough, thats football. People come and go. Not saying I'd be happy with people leaving, but players/managers leave and go elsewhere, thats what happens.

I'm sitting back and enjoying the ride and having a good time.

you.argh.zzzz

[Schards#2]

Schards never defined 'foreseeable future' - how far into the future did he claim to see on 14th September? It could have been anything from 2 minutes to three years.

The main concerns are:

a) chairman wants to sell
b) manager unlikely to stay beyond this season
c) top players looking for the exit

I can't tell you precicely when these may bite but a) and c) will impact in January and b) at the end of the season.

a) and b) will have a significant effect even if we get promoted as both will effect the quality of replacements following c)

a) Yes, but he has always said "not to just anyone" and he is a Tory so we must trust him there. How do you assume it will happen in January in what will still be a global recession - even the Nigerians pulled out of the Newcastle deal. Also with so many Prem clubs up for sale who'd buy RFC?
b) Not sure where Coppell has actually said so, its speculation from around when we hit the Prem, so until it happens business as usual.
c) Crap replacements like Hunt and Armstrong? All bought to do a job at this level and to give us another shot

I would not like any to bite

a) I didn't say he'd sell in January, I said it would impact in January. i.e in the clubs efforts to keep players and the amount they reinvest.

b) Yes, it's speculation. Just my opinion on reading between the lines of what's been said since Derby away.

c) Much as I like Hunt and Armstrong, they are not better than Kitson or Shorey at their best.

I'd love to think that if we are flying at christmas then the players will stick with Reading but i'm constantly dissapointed by players and the extent to which money talks in football.

[The 17 Bus]

Dream team of Giggs and Coppell if we go up, why not?? Giggs team manager, Coppell new position, GOD of football.

[philM]

(In summary)

1. I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club.

2. Madejski will keep the club sound and stable but has no intention of investing further funds or trying to push the club forwards.

3. Coppell - The golden team has long gone and we have to move on and build a new team. Coppell doesn't, IMHO, have the hunger to do this.

4. The Car Park Crew - In hindsight, we should have let Coppell go and started afresh.

5. The football - Supporting Reading's going to be a whole lot duller and uninspiring than in recent years

All this chatter about what constitutes the time period "forseeable" is detracting from the actual contents of the original post.

The summary above lists all the main points Schards raised.

Surely now, we can let this thread fade away and save Schards any more squirming, ducking and diving. We all say rash things sometimes, but on here they seem to return over and over and over and over. Enough?

All the points he raised were in reaction to our opening form, most of us felt the same to some extent after the way things started, even the RTGs know what the down side can be, we just prefer to be more positive and worry less about the darker possibilities!

All the points he raised no longer apply, with the possible exception of point 2. He was wrong. Things have been turned around since Schards posted way back then. We may collapse again but hey, it's all good now.

Point 2, "Madejski will keep the club sound and stable but has no intention of investing further funds or trying to push the club forwards." - Keeping the club sound and stable has got to be priority 1. He doesn't have the cash to take us much further than mid table prem, but his goal is to sell to someone who can push the club forward and can make sure we stay there. He won't sell until we are promoted because our value will be a fraction of what he could get. The only other time he would sell would be if he believed we had no real chance of promotion in the near future or maybe if we ended up relegated from the Championship. And that sure ain't the "forseeable future" right now

URRRRRZZZZZZZ!

[The 17 Bus]

Sometimes it can be hard to see change as being better than the devil you know, we had this in the past, with Cureton, Butler, Forster, Hughes, Whitehead, Williams and many others football is a fluid situation, losing the players we did made us look weaker, that is until the new players start to gel, and when that gel happens we can see if we are moving ahead, which we appear to be. I think at the moment i would rather be in the team at Reading than at Stoke, though playing for Villa would be a tougher call.

Reading about the academy lads I cant wait for Walcott to step up for us, the press will have a field day.

[Franchise FC]

[

Why would the fact that the chairman wants to sell have any effect on the ability to keep players in January ?

Armstrong ISN'T replacing Shorey at his best - he's replacing Shorey at his most average

Prepare to be VERY disappointed. Players play for money and will go where they think they can earn the most.

[Royal Lady]

[

Why would the fact that the chairman wants to sell have any effect on the ability to keep players in January ?Even I can answer this!! Because, the chairman won't be prepared to commit large sums of money to anyone if he's intending on someone else coming in and taking over.

Armstrong ISN'T replacing Shorey at his best - he's replacing Shorey at his most averageYou're changing his point. His point was that Armstrong isn't the equivalent of Shorey at his best - he was brought in to replace Shorey (a player who, before he wanted out, was one of the top players in his position in the Prem).

Prepare to be VERY disappointed. Players play for money and will go where they think they can earn the most.We all know this

[Uke]

So the only point that might happen is point c) which wec all aggree on, the rest is conjecture

But point c is crap, because it would/could happen anyway

If we have a crap season they will leave fpor better. If we do well they will be poached.

So making the point that players may leave is pointless

[Schards#2]

So the only point that might happen is point c) which wec all aggree on, the rest is conjecture

But point c is crap, because it would/could happen anyway

If we have a crap season they will leave fpor better. If we do well they will be poached.

So making the point that players may leave is pointless

This post is rubbish on many levels.

Because something is conjecture, it does not mean that it won't happen.

It's more than conjecture that Madejski wants to sell

The last two sentances really make part of my point. We will lose our best players in virtually any circumstances. Unless you are arguing that this is a good thing, you must surely accept that that is likely to hamper progress.

[Uke]

So the only point that might happen is point c) which wec all aggree on, the rest is conjecture

But point c is crap, because it would/could happen anyway

If we have a crap season they will leave fpor better. If we do well they will be poached.

So making the point that players may leave is pointless

This post is rubbish on many levels.

Because something is conjecture, it does not mean that it won't happen.

It's more than conjecture that Madejski wants to sell

The last two sentances really make part of my point. We will lose our best players in virtually any circumstances. Unless you are arguing that this is a good thing, you must surely accept that that is likely to hamper progress.

Think before you post, please. Don't just slag people off - I'm not bloody FGS. The last five sentences of your post are rubbish on so many levels.

You state "Because something is conjecture, it does not mean that it won't happen. ". So you agree that what you have is conjecture so just as likely it won't happen!

its not conjecture that Mad wants to sell, its fact. There is enough press documenmtation over the past five years in which a sale has been 'imminent'. In case you haven't noticed ita ain't happened and with several Prem clubs up for grabs it ain't gonna happen.

We may, we may not lose our players - so why worry?

[Schards#2]

So the only point that might happen is point c) which wec all aggree on, the rest is conjecture
But point c is crap, because it would/could happen anyway

If we have a crap season they will leave fpor better. If we do well they will be poached.

So making the point that players may leave is pointless

This post is rubbish on many levels.

Because something is conjecture, it does not mean that it won't happen.

It's more than conjecture that Madejski wants to sell

The last two sentances really make part of my point. We will lose our best players in virtually any circumstances. Unless you are arguing that this is a good thing, you must surely accept that that is likely to hamper progress.

Think before you post, please. Don't just slag people off - I'm not bloody FGS. The last five sentences of your post are rubbish on so many levels.

You state "Because something is conjecture, it does not mean that it won't happen. ". So you agree that what you have is conjecture so just as likely it won't happen!

its not conjecture that Mad wants to sell, its fact. There is enough press documenmtation over the past five years in which a sale has been 'imminent'. In case you haven't noticed ita ain't happened and with several Prem clubs up for grabs it ain't gonna happen.

We may, we may not lose our players - so why worry?

I can't be bothered to point out all of the rubbish in that post so i've just highlighted the most glaring inconsistancy.

Have you been on the drink?

[Uke]

This post is rubbish on many levels.

Because something is conjecture, it does not mean that it won't happen.

It's more than conjecture that Madejski wants to sell

The last two sentances really make part of my point. We will lose our best players in virtually any circumstances. Unless you are arguing that this is a good thing, you must surely accept that that is likely to hamper progress.

Think before you post, please. Don't just slag people off - I'm not bloody FGS. The last five sentences of your post are rubbish on so many levels.

You state "Because something is conjecture, it does not mean that it won't happen. ". So you agree that what you have is conjecture so just as likely it won't happen!

its not conjecture that Mad wants to sell, its fact. There is enough press documentation over the past five years in which a sale has been 'imminent'. In case you haven't noticed it ain't happened and with several Prem clubs up for grabs it ain't gonna happen.

We may, we may not lose our players - so why worry?

I can't be bothered to point out all of the rubbish in that post so i've just highlighted the most glaring inconsistancy.

Have you been on the drink?

A bit

But tell me why its conjecture and not fact that Mr Mad wants to sell. It's conjecture that he will sell this season, just like the previous three or four seasons.

I also couldn't be arsed to point out all the inconistencies in your previous posts too.

First result on Google
Conjecture
speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence); "speculations about the outcome ...

[Ian Royal]

Losing our two best players wouldn't necessarily prevent us from making progress as a club FFS.

Reading FC is a hell of a lot bigger than just Doyle and SHunt. Failing to get promoted this season isn't a lack of progress either. Two seasons in the premier league do not a premier club make.

Progress would still be establishing ourselves as a top Championship side, which we seem more than capable of doing. Progress involves looking at the big picture and the big picture says 10 years ago we were a League 1 club with ambition. Frankly I would consider it progress if what we're doing now helps to ensure that in 5 - 10 years time we are still at least a Championship club with ambition, if not a yoyo club or even better a club attempting to establish itself in the premiership.

Staying at this level is progress for us as a club.

[Royal Lady]

1. Most of us know what conjecture means thanks.
2. First of all you said the only thing that wasn't conjecture was that players would leave, then you said Mr Mad wanting to sell wasn't conjecture, it was fact.
3. You appear to be arguing with yourself.
4. Show me where Schards "slagged you off".

[Royal Lady]

Ian, do you really only think that Doyle and Hunt would go in January? Do you not think clubs will be clamouring for Bikey? Marek? Losing just Doyle and Hunt would have a significant impact on our team, whether they were replaced or not. Let alone if we lose any others.