Where has £3.95 million gone?

[andrew1957]

OK I give up.

I now realize that most of you are small time thinkers - probably remnants who have never moved forward from the Elm Park days and who think that being at this Championship level is jolly spiffing. Clearly the Chairman is right not to be too ambitious - Reading fans simply do not want a PL team.

I am going to take my pills and am off to bed.

[Wycombe Royal]

OK I give up.

I now realize that most of you are small time thinkers - probably remnants who have never moved forward from the Elm Park days and who think that being at this Championship level is jolly spiffing. Clearly the Chairman is right not to be too ambitious - Reading fans simply do not want a PL team.

I am going to take my pills and am off to bed.

In other words, I can't possibly calculate what the cash suplus is (if there is indeed one at all) because I don't have the information available. My simplistic methods have been torn to shreds and I have no further comebacks. I give up.

[Isaac Hunt]

OK I give up

Promise?!

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

OK I give up.

I now realize that most of you are small time thinkers - probably remnants who have never moved forward from the Elm Park days and who think that being at this Championship level is jolly spiffing. Clearly the Chairman is right not to be too ambitious - Reading fans simply do not want a PL team.

I am going to take my pills and am off to bed.

In other words, I can't possibly calculate what the cash suplus is (if there is indeed one at all) because I don't have the information available. My simplistic methods have been torn to shreds and I have no further comebacks. I give up.

Harsh

[Yellowcoat]

But very true!

[Yellowcoat]

Andrew also stated he was in business. Perhaps he would like to announce the name of the company so that we can avoid it in future as with his financial acumen it will not be operating much longer.

[Snowball]

Jeez, why are some fans incapable of thinking more than 2 weeks ahead.

TWO weeks? Who thinks that far ahead?

I'm struggling waiting to see who we've got in the 4th round.

[RoyalBlue]

even if we did have £3.95m to spend why the hell would we want to spend it??????????? We have the foundations of a promotion winning team that is improving as every week goes by, be happy with that, we don't need to sign anyone.

And you sir are either a fool or have been drinking the same stuff as Madejski and McDermott! Have you taken a look at our talent laden bench and our glut of goalscoring strikers?!

Even if we have the foundations, how long until the Mad Cloth cutter sells off a corner stone of them?

And as I've said before, those that really believe a set of accounts tell a full story of a business haven't had much experience of working at a senior level within a business. If that was the case, businesses would change hands on the back of a set of accounts only and those acquiring them wouldn't spend weeks and millions of pounds on due diligence. So stop trying to tell the rest of us that the accounts back up everything we are being told by the club. You might also care to read back through all the statements the club have made about finances, reasons for player sales, lack of transfers in, the importance of not spending big during our successful years etc. and see whether they can be reconciled. Good luck because they cant.

Nothing the pro or anti Madejski camp says will sway the opinion of the other now. It comes down to whether you accept what he and his men tell us or not. I just hope that when he finally p*sses off we will find out what the hell has happened to the club that was supposedly so well run financially but still has less money to invest than any other.

The trouble is that despite all his talk of wanting out, Madejski seems to be doing about as much to achieve that ambition in the next few years as he is to achieve the Premier League ambition he kept spouting off about. Perhaps he would miss being in the spotlight if he left.

[Snowball]

Surplus on transfer dealing profits and losses since 1st May 2006 and 31st May 2011.

May 2007 - Steve Sidwell – loss of £150,000 (bought £150K – Bosman - free)
June 2007 - Greg Halford – profit of £250,000 (bought £2.25M – sold £2.5M)
Aug 2007 – Seol - Ki-Hyeon – no loss/profit (bought and sold for £1M)
Jan 2008 – Simon Cox – profit of £720,000 (developed Academy – sold for £200K – plus we received a £520K sell on fee when he joined West Brom in July 09)
May 2008 – Graham Stack – loss of £100,000 (bought £100K – released free)
May 2008 – John Halls – loss of £250,000 (bought for £250K – released free)
May 2008 – Aaron Brown – loss of £50,000 (bought £50K – released free)
July 2008 – David Kitson – profit £4,800,000 (bought £350K – sold £5.5M less release from sell on fee clause costing £350,000)
Aug 2008 – Nicky Shorey – profit £2,950,000 (bought £25K – sold £3.5M less sell on fee of £525,000)
Aug 2008 – Ibrahima Sonko – profit £2,000,000 (signed free – sold £2M)
January 2009 – Emerse Fae – no loss/profit (bought and sold for approx £2,500,000)
February 2009 – Bobby Convey – loss £850,000 (signed £850K – released free)
May 2009 – Alan Bennett – loss £300,000 (signed £300K – released free)
May 2009 – Graeme Murty – loss £825,000 (signed £825K – released free)
May 2009 – Leroy Lita – loss £1,000,000 (signed £1M – Bosman free)
May 2009 – Michael Duberry – loss £800.000 (signed £800K – released free)
May 2009 – Scott Golbourne – loss £250,000 (signed £250K – released free)
May 2009 – Sam Sodje – loss £350,000 (signed £350K – released free)
June 2009 – Kevin Doyle – profit £6,222,000 (bought for £78K initial, plus £200K to buy out 10% sell on clause – sold £6,500,000).
August 2009 – Stephen Hunt – profit £3,000,000 (signed free – sold for £3M)
August 2009 – Andre Bikey – profit £1,600,000 (signed £1.2M – sold £2.8M)
January 2010 – James Harper – loss £400,000 (signed £400K – released free)
May 2010 – Liam Rosenior – loss £1,000,000 (signed £1M swap deal – released free).
May 2010 – Radoslav Vasilev – loss £250,000 (signed £250K – released free)
June 2010 – Marek Matejovsky – loss £770,000 (signed £1.42M – sold £650K)
July 2010 – Khalifa Cisse – loss £175,000 (signed £675K – sold £500K)
July 2010 – James Henry – profit £200,000 (developed by Academy – sold for £200K)
August 2010 - Grzegorz Rasiak – loss £300,000 (signed £300K – released free)
August 2010 – Gylfi Sigurdsson – profit £6,300,000 (developed Academy – sold for £7M - less a 10% (700K) sell on fee to his old club in Iceland)
All other leaving players joined for free and left for free or were developed by Academy and also left for free – so no loss or profit achieved on transferring away.
Overall profit/loss on leaving players since 1st May 2006 – profit £20,222,000

Andrew those figures

1 May not be accurate.

2 May include VAT, if so deduct 15% of all our income.

3 May be extended payments of many years. (eg have we got the money from Hull for SHunt?)

4 May include loads of conditions like appearances/goals/going up or staying up. For example Doyle hasn't scored a lot at Wolves so maybe his transfer is worth a lot less


After that, what gates did we budget for? What merchandise sales did we budget for?

Maybe we are falling short of those.


Say we are 2,000 down on budgeted gates. 2,000 x say, £20 x 46 = 1.84 MILLION = say 2 MORE Million with food sales, programme sales etc.

[RoyalBlue]

Surplus on transfer dealing profits and losses since 1st May 2006 and 31st May 2011.

May 2007 - Steve Sidwell – loss of £150,000 (bought £150K – Bosman - free)
June 2007 - Greg Halford – profit of £250,000 (bought £2.25M – sold £2.5M)
Aug 2007 – Seol - Ki-Hyeon – no loss/profit (bought and sold for £1M)
Jan 2008 – Simon Cox – profit of £720,000 (developed Academy – sold for £200K – plus we received a £520K sell on fee when he joined West Brom in July 09)
May 2008 – Graham Stack – loss of £100,000 (bought £100K – released free)
May 2008 – John Halls – loss of £250,000 (bought for £250K – released free)
May 2008 – Aaron Brown – loss of £50,000 (bought £50K – released free)
July 2008 – David Kitson – profit £4,800,000 (bought £350K – sold £5.5M less release from sell on fee clause costing £350,000)
Aug 2008 – Nicky Shorey – profit £2,950,000 (bought £25K – sold £3.5M less sell on fee of £525,000)
Aug 2008 – Ibrahima Sonko – profit £2,000,000 (signed free – sold £2M)
January 2009 – Emerse Fae – no loss/profit (bought and sold for approx £2,500,000)
February 2009 – Bobby Convey – loss £850,000 (signed £850K – released free)
May 2009 – Alan Bennett – loss £300,000 (signed £300K – released free)
May 2009 – Graeme Murty – loss £825,000 (signed £825K – released free)
May 2009 – Leroy Lita – loss £1,000,000 (signed £1M – Bosman free)
May 2009 – Michael Duberry – loss £800.000 (signed £800K – released free)
May 2009 – Scott Golbourne – loss £250,000 (signed £250K – released free)
May 2009 – Sam Sodje – loss £350,000 (signed £350K – released free)
June 2009 – Kevin Doyle – profit £6,222,000 (bought for £78K initial, plus £200K to buy out 10% sell on clause – sold £6,500,000).
August 2009 – Stephen Hunt – profit £3,000,000 (signed free – sold for £3M)
August 2009 – Andre Bikey – profit £1,600,000 (signed £1.2M – sold £2.8M)
January 2010 – James Harper – loss £400,000 (signed £400K – released free)
May 2010 – Liam Rosenior – loss £1,000,000 (signed £1M swap deal – released free).
May 2010 – Radoslav Vasilev – loss £250,000 (signed £250K – released free)
June 2010 – Marek Matejovsky – loss £770,000 (signed £1.42M – sold £650K)
July 2010 – Khalifa Cisse – loss £175,000 (signed £675K – sold £500K)
July 2010 – James Henry – profit £200,000 (developed by Academy – sold for £200K)
August 2010 - Grzegorz Rasiak – loss £300,000 (signed £300K – released free)
August 2010 – Gylfi Sigurdsson – profit £6,300,000 (developed Academy – sold for £7M - less a 10% (700K) sell on fee to his old club in Iceland)
All other leaving players joined for free and left for free or were developed by Academy and also left for free – so no loss or profit achieved on transferring away.
Overall profit/loss on leaving players since 1st May 2006 – profit £20,222,000

Andrew those figures

1 May not be accurate.

2 May include VAT, if so deduct 15% of all our income.

3 May be extended payments of many years. (eg have we got the money from Hull for SHunt?)

4 May include loads of conditions like appearances/goals/going up or staying up. For example Doyle hasn't scored a lot at Wolves so maybe his transfer is worth a lot less


After that, what gates did we budget for? What merchandise sales did we budget for?

Maybe we are falling short of those.


Say we are 2,000 down on budgeted gates. 2,000 x say, £20 x 46 = 1.84 MILLION = say 2 MORE Million with food sales, programme sales etc.

Snowball, the deferred payments, inaccurate fees (surely the club haven't been telling us porkies have they?) all work the other way i.e. when it comes to signing players too. VAT also works both ways. Budgetted gates - difficult for even a fool to budget for 2,000 over capacity in the PL days! Unforeseen cup runs/proceeds? Higher than budgetted merchandise sales during our promotion season?

Andrew also stated he was in business. Perhaps he would like to announce the name of the company so that we can avoid it in future as with his financial acumen it will not be operating much longer.

Oh, because someone doesn't buy into the Madejski (and fan club) business model they don't know what they're talking about?! Pathetic!!!

Try that one on me sunshine. I suspect I've made sums of money from business that would turn you yellow and it's still doing ok thanks!

[Jimbo]

I think we should all calm down and wait until the transfer window has closed before we go making any judgements.

Admittedly the noises from the club are down-playing any chance of a signing or two, but they have always been like this.

You just never know...

[Snowball]

Snowball, the deferred payments, inaccurate fees (surely the club haven't been telling us porkies have they?)


I CANNOT REMEMBER ANY CLUB ANNOUNCEMENTS EVER TELLING THE WORLD EXACTLY
WHAT FEES WERE BEING PAID OUT FOR PLAYERS OR PAID TO US WHEN WE SELL.


I have seen figures of 30,000 to £250,000 bandied around for Harte, heard Griff came for nowt, and £250,000

It's not a case of porkies, more letting people believe what they want to believe




all work the other way i.e. when it comes to signing players too.


Not necessarily. We simply don't know. Some clubs placate their fans by creating a cost like this.

A one/two million player might have up to3 million of add ons, not all realistic, half a million to an agent, VAT, bus fare to the ground,
and they throw it all together, get near to 5 Mill so "accidentally" give the idea the fee was over 5 mill. Befopre long fans are saying 6 mill


Another club MIGHT be more accurate.



We MIGHT include VAT in the published or leaked "cost" of an incoming player. We might not.


VAT also works both ways.

see above. IMO greater honesty/clarity would be nice, biut






Budgetted gates - difficult for even a fool to budget for 2,000 over capacity in the PL days! Unforeseen cup runs/proceeds? Higher than budgeted merchandise sales during our promotion season?

It was an example... but gates might easily drop the money by another million

[Royal Monk]

2 MORE Million with food sales, programme sales etc

Wrong again buddy ....

Change in catering arrangement at Madejski Stadium
Posted on: Wed 17 Nov 2004
The leisure and hospitality division of Compass Group UK and Ireland has been awarded the contract to provide catering, hospitality and conference and banqueting services at Reading Football Club and the adjacent Royal Berkshire Conference Centre.

Under the terms of the seven-year deal, which starts in August, the company will provide public match day catering for up to 24,000 football fans and for supporters of the London Irish Rugby Team which is based at Madejski Stadium, as well as offering a hospitality and box catering service.

We got millions for the 7 year contract but recieve nothing from matchday sales

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

It comes down to whether you accept what he and his men tell us or not. I just hope that when he finally p*sses off we will find out what the hell has happened to the club that was supposedly so well run financially but still has less money to invest than any other.

What you meant to say, surely, was less prepared to spend money that we simply haven't got in order to secure the club's future in the medium term.

Look, I'd love for us to go and get 3 players for several million quid each, but not if it puts the club into a debt that it will struggle to meet. The Pompey way is not for me, especially as it could easily be my business that ends up being paid 20p in the pound over five years whilst watching players continue to pocket the total value of my debt in just a couple of weeks. I think JM has more integrity than that.

[brendywendy]

for starters you only used transfers fees in/out and while totally failing to take into account any of the other outgoings of the club, and maintained that this meant we have 3.95 million sloshing around to spend, and other statements were made regarding the 20 million profit we have made etc.

The club said we had a shortfall of £4M "after" taking all income and expenditure into account. That is how a business projects figures. I don't need to do that calculation again because the club has already done so. Are you suggesting the club lied and the shortfall was actually much larger than £4M?
if so how come they could afford a new fridge at the training ground and a flight to Boro out of the surplus made on the Gylfi sale (as we were told on the club site).

So from the club's own figures we "DO" have £3.95M sloshing about somewhere.

As for profit on player trading since the end of the 2005/6 season - I will post the fill list in a minute. Yes some figures might be a bit wrong but I have even allowed deductions for players ending their careers like Murty - so i think £20M is conservative.

Totally miss the point agaim. Yes. 4 mill shortfall. Yes 8 mill for gylfi. But that doesnt take into account loan fees and wages since. Also doesnt consider drop in gates/matchday income, and also fails to consider ongoing losses next year. Further transfers and wages in jan. And the fact that its not a good idea for a business to use all its spare cash.
And to say weve brought 20 million in,but ignoring all other incomings/outgoings is daft.no wonder you are coming up short in financial terms.

[brendywendy]

2 MORE Million with food sales, programme sales etc

Wrong again buddy ....

Change in catering arrangement at Madejski Stadium
Posted on: Wed 17 Nov 2004
The leisure and hospitality division of Compass Group UK and Ireland has been awarded the contract to provide catering, hospitality and conference and banqueting services at Reading Football Club and the adjacent Royal Berkshire Conference Centre.

Under the terms of the seven-year deal, which starts in August, the company will provide public match day catering for up to 24,000 football fans and for supporters of the London Irish Rugby Team which is based at Madejski Stadium, as well as offering a hospitality and box catering service.

We got millions for the 7 year contract but recieve nothing from matchday sales

A:"millions"
B:do you know if there are any clauses to enable the company to claw back some money if our gates fall, or if we stop buying the food?
C:considering snowball mentioned that,very briefly, and simply as an example of where there may be other costs you arent taking into account, it just shows how bereft of reason you are

[Sarah Star]

Andrew also stated he was in business. Perhaps he would like to announce the name of the company so that we can avoid it in future as with his financial acumen it will not be operating much longer.

Be funny if he turned out to be SJM. Puts an entirely different light on things.

[Bucks Dave]

For the attention of Royal Blue.

The reason due diligence is carried out is because of a fear that the accounts are not showing bad news, eg lower profits than appear or a liability not clearly identified. So the written accounts of a company may paint too rosy a picture. Sure , there could be a tax reason for trying to show diminished profits but only if you are very high profit.

I offer to explain the written accounts,even if they may show a better position that actually exists and the SJM haters say they will mean nothing. Yet everyone is trying to make their own numbers up. What else do you want to use?

[Royal Monk]

Brendywendy you really are a dreary person ... believe what you want to but make sure them tinted glasses dont fall off, because when reality strikes you really wont like what you see

[brendywendy]

Brendywendy you really are a dreary person ... believe what you want to but make sure them tinted glasses dont fall off, because when reality strikes you really wont like what you see

LOL!

you are of course welcome to your opinion.
but if you are waiting for A- the truth to emerge that JM has robbed us blind, and falsified his acounts to ensure he gets away with it.
and/or B: even if that does happen for me to fall off my chair or anything,
youll be waiting a long long time.


and for the record, im not dreary! im well exciting me.