"Reading prove patience is a virtue"

[Wimb]

i dunno schards.i think weve managed the transition incredibly well.
that the gates fell as we got relegated and failed to return is inevitable, and would happen to any club. ambitious or not.

So do you think if, say, Stoke got relegated and their board said that there ambition for the next three years is to be top half of the championship, sell our best players and keep selling them going forward and to only lose 27% of our attendances, that the fans would be happy with that as a blueprint to follow?

It's not been the club's ambition to do any of those things Schards, it's been the realities of life. If I dropped from a 50k a year job to a 20k a year job I doubt I'd be able to afford to keep the BMW and I'd imagine I'd not be able to throw the same sort of parties as I used to, so maybe a few less people might show up.

Attendances will fall upon relegation it's a well known fact and look at any other club that's been relegated and you'll find the same pattern. If you couple our relegation with the fact that we're going through a spell of financial turmoil in this country then maybe 1 or 2 fans that have 'been there and done it' might well have decided against going to the football, but that's not the club's fault, that's fans attitudes. What do you expect the club to do to increase gates further? do you really think signing Charlie Austin would bring 3000 extra bums on seats? The fans do still show up when there's a big game on, look at the Liverpool and Villa games in the cup last year for example.

You continually treat RFC as if they are the only team to have sold their best players when a bigger fish comes along. I seem to think that this week one or two other big clubs might have had to sell a player or two because an offer too good to turn down came in or the player wanted to go...

Still continue to have a tantrum and accuse the club of lacking ambition blah blah blah

[Schards#2]

i dunno schards.i think weve managed the transition incredibly well.
that the gates fell as we got relegated and failed to return is inevitable, and would happen to any club. ambitious or not.

So do you think if, say, Stoke got relegated and their board said that there ambition for the next three years is to be top half of the championship, sell our best players and keep selling them going forward and to only lose 27% of our attendances, that the fans would be happy with that as a blueprint to follow?

It's not been the club's ambition to do any of those things Schards, it's been the realities of life. If I dropped from a 50k a year job to a 20k a year job I doubt I'd be able to afford to keep the BMW and I'd imagine I'd not be able to throw the same sort of parties as I used to, so maybe a few less people might show up.

Attendances will fall upon relegation it's a well known fact and look at any other club that's been relegated and you'll find the same pattern. If you couple our relegation with the fact that we're going through a spell of financial turmoil in this country then maybe 1 or 2 fans that have 'been there and done it' might well have decided against going to the football, but that's not the club's fault, that's fans attitudes. What do you expect the club to do to increase gates further? do you really think signing Charlie Austin would bring 3000 extra bums on seats? The fans do still show up when there's a big game on, look at the Liverpool and Villa games in the cup last year for example.

You continually treat RFC as if they are the only team to have sold their best players when a bigger fish comes along. I seem to think that this week one or two other big clubs might have had to sell a player or two because an offer too good to turn down came in or the player wanted to go...

Still continue to have a tantrum and accuse the club of lacking ambition blah blah blah

Well, you appear to be the only one having a tantrum here but, be that as it may. The article suggests that Reading are an example other clubs should try and emulate. That is the point I am disagreeing with as I think the fans of any club relegated from the prem this season would be mortified to think they would be where we are now in 3 years time. Therefore, the whole premice of the article is wrong.

So why not put those toys back in the pram and answer the question?

[brendywendy]

i dunno schards.i think weve managed the transition incredibly well.
that the gates fell as we got relegated and failed to return is inevitable, and would happen to any club. ambitious or not.

So do you think if, say, Stoke got relegated and their board said that there ambition for the next three years is to be top half of the championship, sell our best players and keep selling them going forward and to only lose 27% of our attendances, that the fans would be happy with that as a blueprint to follow?

no, but then id imagine they are all much like you, and wouldnt ever be happy again, simply cos we went down at all.
and cos we wont spend money we dont have.

for sensible fans of teams that went up, came down, and didnt go back up, id say we were a perfect role model.

[ZacNaloen]

It's a role model of what clubs should do if they want to avoid financial difficulties and remain competitive, not an example of what to do to keep the fans happy.

[brendywendy]

by fans you do of course mean schards, andrew1871 and royal blue

[ZacNaloen]

I was going to say "keep deluded fans happy", but then realised that could turn into a 40 page argument and I need to get dinner ready.

[papereyes]

Other clubs have fallen further

Other clubs have had money and managed to bounce back.

At the moment, I think we're possibly where we were in 04ish but with a slightly raised profile and slightly better finances.

The next promotion will rely on 'catching lightning' again but we have the base on which to build it.

[Snowball]

Officer know that soldiers always moan.

They worry if they are NOT moaning.



Football Clubs know that fans always moan...

[Wimb]

What Zac and Brendy said tbf.

This club TRIED to get straight back, it took a gamble on getting back in 2008/2009 and it nearly paid off. Sadly it didn't so you then have to plan in case you don't make it back in 2009/2010 and so on.

I think any fan of a relegated club would HOPE they would be in the Premier League three seasons after promotion, but then there are 24 clubs each season in the Championship vying for promotion and only 3 can make it, some are going to be disappointed. The point that I, and the author of the piece is suggesting is that this club is despite relegation we have been 4th, 9th and set for another chance of the playoffs, with a good young squad and a promising young manager. I think if you ask fans whose blueprint would you like to follow, Reading's would certainly be a very strong candidate. Or would you prefer the Bradford, Leeds, Southampton blueprint?

[ZacNaloen]

It looks we're like trying to follow a model of investing early and selling high.


Which in football terms means, buy young players before anyone realises they are any good, improving them, buying a replacement before anyone realises they are any good, and selling the initial player for more than you paid for him.

[papereyes]

MONEYBALL.

[brendywendy]

MADEJSKIWANG

[ZacNaloen]

Apparently it works very well, is it Lyon that came out of nowhere to dominate the French league?

This is the method they used, i read it in a book once.

[Wimb]

MONEYBALL.

Not a bad comparison, and in many ways we're like the Oakland A's and many other midmarket teams who have just been to the playoffs. We know that we're unlikely to ever keep the best players if they ever reach their potential and so rather then lose them to free agency, we go and make trades (in our case financial flexibility) and get a truckload of prospects back.

Just like those midmarket baseball teams we have to accept that it's going to be cycles of success rather then any one continuous assault on being a team in the top 23.

I'm personally happy as long as we're in with a shout or building something positive. There hasn't been a move the club has made since relegation that hasn't had sound logic behind it, even the Rodgers appointment had the best of intentions.

[papereyes]

Its in Soccernomics, its kind of based on the Moneyball system

Except that the baseball system relies on statistical analysis of players and the fact that scouts miss certain attributes that are rewarded in a game situation.

Its also similar to a method of management that a German club did and achieved relative success with. Looking for players that haven't achieved their potential and playing a slightly different system to the rest of the league (our emphasis on wing play under Coppell and using the midfielders primarily as a defensive screen. Certainly, imo, this, as opposed to a standard issue 4-5-1 promoted team relegation fodder, made a big difference in the Premiership).

[papereyes]

I'm personally happy as long as we're in with a shout or building something positive. There hasn't been a move the club has made since relegation that hasn't had sound logic behind it, even the Rodgers appointment had the best of intentions.

I think we wobbled in 2009 (calendar year).

Maybe well intentioned but it don't mean it wasn't flawed.

[pea]

Thought some of Wimb's posts on this topic have been some of the most reasonable and well-thought out I've seen on this site in some time.

Schards response that he was simply having a tantrum is laughable.

[papereyes]

I think they both make decent points and they're not quite as mutually exclusive as they seem at first.

[ZacNaloen]

we wobbled for half a season in 2009, Rodgers fault. He changed too much too quickly.

[papereyes]

I think also the end of the previous season as well. Didn't quite know how to deal with some pretty long standing problems (characters in squad, the first post-relegation transfer window etc).

Club also appeared to be giving out some very mixed signals.