Millwall (A) Match Thread - Sponsored by Short Cummings

[Ian Royal]

None of them are genuine goalscorers. Cox was the closest and he's gone backwards under Clarke.

No, he's gone backwards since our failure to secure Murray on a longer term basis.

6 points from 6 under Clarke is relegation form. This is the worst side we've had since early Pardew days tbh.

He wasn't at his best even when Murray was still here, but that is a big factor IMO.

[RoyalBlue]

F~ck me! The same old culprits still swallow every word fed to them by the club!

And if we were that close to FFP, why waste what little money/margin for movement we had on yet another sodding midfielder to join the rest of them in firing blanks?

[Ian Royal]

F~ck me! The same old culprits still swallow every word fed to them by the club!

And if we were that close to FFP, why waste what little money/margin for movement we had on yet another sodding midfielder to join the rest of them in firing blanks?

It's not from the club, moron, it's from the accounts briefings.

We made a loss of £7.5m last season, which was squeezed under the £3m limit by the Academy etc not counting.

But don't let people who try to actually find out some facts get in the way of your decision to moan about something you have no information on because it fits your agenda.

[genome]

I'm afraid tonight's result can only be blamed on Madejski breaking his promises in the January 2014 transfer window.

[SCIAG]

So they effing say. And, of course, we have to believe them.

Well yeah, FFP is a real thing

Every Championship club who spent any substantial money got hit with a transfer ban, which would rather hurt your unquenchable thirst for flashy new players, wouldn't it?

[andrew1957]

Why the doom and gloom. We have kept the gap to Millwall the same as before the match. We are picking up a few points here and there - which should be enough for comfortable survival (currently on course for 52/53 points) and we can put all our energy into the FA cup and perhaps have a good run.

[P!ssed Off]

What a load of rubbish!

[CholseyRoyal]

What have we gained by sacking Adkins? If we had kept him we would have more money to spend now under FFP! All I can see is we have tightened our defence a bit which Adkins could have sorted out himself.

[genome]

What makes you believe Adkins would've sorted the defence out? I'll bet you we would've lost tonight under Adkins, and definitely the Middlesbrough game. And maybe even the Bolton game. And the Cardiff game. And the Fulham game. Which we already lost, but Adkins was so shit he would've lost it twice.

[sandman]

What have we gained by sacking Adkins? If we had kept him we would have more money to spend now under FFP! All I can see is we have tightened our defence a bit which Adkins could have sorted out himself.

So why didn't he? He had those problems for months on end and he didn't fix it, what makes you think he could've sorted it out?

[CholseyRoyal]

What have we gained by sacking Adkins? If we had kept him we would have more money to spend now under FFP! All I can see is we have tightened our defence a bit which Adkins could have sorted out himself.

So why didn't he? He had those problems for months on end and he didn't fix it, what makes you think he could've sorted it out?

To be fair I am surprised he didn't and maybe he doesn't know how as most of his teams have been poor defensively. But my point stands, it cost us a lot to sack him and now if we don't resign Murray I fear we shall be stuck with our current squad and struggle to score goals so the effect will be the same

[biff]

That was dire, whichever way you look at it. Defence pretty good, not really troubled. apart from hector playing his age,. But going forward was league 2 standard. Playing that narrow with Norwood pinging Hollywood balls out to mcleary will get us relegated, we had one shot against 10 men. Blackman and Robson Kanu were more central than pogrebnyak for the vast majority. It's amateur hour and it's embarrassing to watch. Especially for £26 quid with 400 other fans. Why why why

[From Despair To Where?]

What have we gained by sacking Adkins? If we had kept him we would have more money to spend now under FFP! All I can see is we have tightened our defence a bit which Adkins could have sorted out himself.

So why didn't he? He had those problems for months on end and he didn't fix it, what makes you think he could've sorted it out?

..and the thing with Adkins was, as the season progressed, we were actually getting worse.

I'm prepared to give Clarke time because, as I posted at the time he was appointed, the club's like a supertanker and it will take time to slow down before we can even think about turning it around. As far as I can see, by plugging some of the leaks in defence, he has slowed it down sufficiently to start thinking about turning it round but we desparately need something up front which must be the priority between now and next Monday.

[Platypuss]

Clarke's first priority always had to be to get the defence sorted - definite progress there.
Regarding then building on that more solid platform, with the loss of Murray his hands haven't been tied, they've been cut off.

[Stranded]

So they effing say. And, of course, we have to believe them.

Well yeah, FFP is a real thing

Every Championship club who spent any substantial money got hit with a transfer ban, which would rather hurt your unquenchable thirst for flashy new players, wouldn't it?

The problem with your statement there is that Leeds are under a transfer embargo and signed two players this week.

[Vision]

^^ That's the issue isn't it?

The punishment for failing FFP isn't a complete transfer embargo but the fact that you're restricted to free transfers and loans. However in order to comply with FFP we're restricted to free transfers and loans anyway. It's wages that are the main killer finacially for clubs and there is no embargo it seems on how much you can pay a free transfer so it all seems a bit pointless really unless there's a massive overspend on both which triggers a more serious sanction (which QPR could well face if they're relegated)

The bottom line though is that FFP or not we're still losing money and our wage bill is too high for this division. People can whinge and moan all they like but this situation has been caused to a large extent by us getting away from what we used to do and ignoring the financial implications of large overspending.

Ironically it's a lot of the people who used to bemoan how we did things pre AZ who are now the most critical of the fall out it's causing.

As for the original thread, a goaless draw against a team below us with 10 men is always disapponting but equally it's still an away point and we have to face the fact that we're going to be scrapping for every point between now and the end of the season it's hardly a cause for the negativity on here.

Wrt to Clarke. If you count cup games (which were also against championship teams) the he's played 8, won 3, Drawn 3 and lost only 2. It suggests to me that Clarke knows what is needed at this level and is slowly improving things, starting with the defence.

[WoodleyRoyal]

Vision you are the voice of reason on here, and one of the very few people who actually talk any sense but to say we still have a wage bill to high for the division makes no sense to me and I don't get how we can still be losing money.

Have a look at who we have let go I am not talking about transfer fees here just players off the wage bill - but if you take into account the transfer fees for the four players too it makes it even harder to believe we are still losing money.

Since the end of last season we have lost.

Daniel Carrico- probably one of our highest earner considering his pedigree + we received a transfer fee
Wayne Bride - one of our highest earners
Jobi - club captain would have been one of our highest earners.
Leigertwood - senior player, again would have been a high earner.
Kaspers Gorkks - probably not a high earner.
Stuart Taylor - Probably not a high earner - although signed in the anton era so who knows.
Jason Roberts - definitely one of our highest earners
Sean Morrison - signed a new contract in December 13 was probably one of our highest earners + transfer fee
Alex McCarthy - Not sure, he was well into three year contract when we sold him i doubt he would have been on that much when he originally signed it but still another player off the wage bill plus transfer fee
Adam Le Fondre - one of our highest earners + transfer fee
Royston Drenthe - one of, if not the highest earner.
Shaun Cummings - squad player - not a high earner

So of the players we have left, on a wage not conducive with 'the reading way' federici pearce & HRK pog and guthrie of which Fedders Pearce and Guthrie all expire in the summer.

I personally don't buy into the whole wage bill is too high anymore, before we released/sold the above fair enough. But we have a squad mainly made up of youngsters with the occasional smattering of over exuberance.

Antons legacy is almost over

[Angry Shed Sex]

If our wage bill is that large we are severly overpaying our players currently.

[Vision]

Look at clubs in a similiar situation such as Boro, Derby, Blackburn (who are still failing ffp) or Wigan who came down with us and more topically Cardiff and Fulham relegated last season. If you don't bounce straight back up then there really does have to be widespread cost cutting to even remotely make up for the inflated Premiership wage bill.

There's not much point in debating though Wooders if you don't believe the figures the club provide because that's all I have to go on I'm afraid. Ah bugger it, who am I kidding I'll have a go anyway

To summarise though, our wage bill in the Prem was £46m. That was 13m higher than the last time we were relegated so yes I'd say that the AZ approach was significantly different.

We lost 7.3m last season (which actually was pretty good going given the previous season's wage bill stated above) To qualify for this season's FFP we need to reduce that even further. That's not helped by removing Adkins and his team on full compensation, falling match day revenues plus additional players that have come into the club (Mackie,Ferdinand,Cox,Norwood,Murray,Chalobah) and the highest number of young professionals signing new contracts we've ever had.

I think you're right in the sense that actually this season we will probably be ok but unfortunately it's not quite as simple as that.. I think the problem actually is beyond this season and onto next when the parachute payments are reduced massively and it's likely that match day revenues will reduce yet again. That is what Balckburn have come a cropper on and it has a bearing on what we do now. If for example the Murray deal went through as rumoured at around 1.5m for a 2 and half year deal. then although we may still be ok this seaon's FFP it will carry over for the 2 subsequent seasons.

I think that's why the club are looking solely at short term deals in this window rather than a permanent longer term deal because it means they can properly take stock in the summer when Clarke has had more time to guage exactly what he wants in his squad.

It's a fine balancing act though and it would certainly help if we knew what the owners were intending to commit themselves with regards to future investment but as things stand we're in a far different situation from what we found ourselves the last time we were relegated when with the aid of maximising the value of players sold we were still competitive in this league and turned a profit.

I'm afraid in that sense the AZ legacy will still be felt for a while yet.