Post Mortem - McShane v Williams

[Ian Royal]

From Dellor's description it was all Williams (although as we know that's utterly unreliable). There McShane looks to be the one who's completely lost the plot. Does it start earlier than the vid and McShane's reacting to Williams?

[sandman]

From Dellor's description it was all Williams (although as we know that's utterly unreliable). There McShane looks to be the one who's completely lost the plot. Does it start earlier than the vid and McShane's reacting to Williams?

It was Mick who saw it. Dellor reacted to Gooding's discription . To be fair if you're looking at McCleary and you see that incident late and out of the corner of your eye it appears like Williams is the one who instigates it.

[Jack Celliers]

From Dellor's description it was all Williams (although as we know that's utterly unreliable). There McShane looks to be the one who's completely lost the plot. Does it start earlier than the vid and McShane's reacting to Williams?

It was Mick who saw it. Dellor reacted to Gooding's discription . To be fair if you're looking at McCleary and you see that incident late and out of the corner of your eye it appears like Williams is the one who instigates it.

McShane appeared to do the head-butt though

[sandman]

From Dellor's description it was all Williams (although as we know that's utterly unreliable). There McShane looks to be the one who's completely lost the plot. Does it start earlier than the vid and McShane's reacting to Williams?

It was Mick who saw it. Dellor reacted to Gooding's discription . To be fair if you're looking at McCleary and you see that incident late and out of the corner of your eye it appears like Williams is the one who instigates it.

McShane appeared to do the head-butt though

He did but if you see it late and only see Williams running up to McShane then it makes it look like Williams instigates it and McShane reacts to him even though, as we can see from the full footage, it was McShane who started it.

[leon]

Not sure our captain should be head butting anyone.

Least of all a camp German American tattooed fashion enthusiast.

It's almost a hate crime.

[Top Flight]

It looked like McShane was giving out to Williams for not doing his defensive duties and not tracking a Boro player. Williams took exception to the criticism which is ridiculous when it's coming from the captain and reacted badly. Williams should show more respect to the captain of the team and accept that he did something wrong and get on with doing his job for the team. This is just a further example of the poor attitude of some of our players. They are too precious to be criticised even by the club captain.

McShane stood his ground as Williams marched towards him. But McShane didn't need to stick his head in.

[Snowball136]

Couldn't believe what I read on twitter last night, large numbers of messages saying "The sooner Williams goes the better", etc...

It's obvious to me that Williams and McShane + whoever else was involved will be absolutely fine. It's a heated game where tempers flared. I for one like to see that at times, it shows passion.

I would be concerned if it was a continual problem or if he was causing trouble within the squad, or didn't quite fit in

Ignoring last night's incident for a moment, but Williams has form for aggression towards his team-mates.

Last season he was called on it more than once.

And IMO, he is not remotely a team-player. if he could learn that he would be playing
at a higher level. He's SELFISH. He likes to run with the ball far too often, when there's a
good pass on. His glory goal might have won us that game but it was a cramp decision,
when he could have played in an in-form Blackman for a comfortable high-percentage strike
on goal.

And watch how he starves Gunter, who runs, doesn't get the ball, then doesn't run and Williams
finally puts the ball there.

Williams could be a great player but I think for RFC he's (overall) poor and we should get rid

[Dr_Hfuhruhurr]

I too think Williams and/or McShane should apologise to me for an incident that I neither saw nor have any interest in.

[RoyalBlue]

Ever thought that he might have been told to by the owners or it may be in the loan agreements ?

Then maybe he should let people know that. If not, then he is paying the price for being a 'yes man' who 'won't rock the boat'

If it is neither of those reasons, then you do have to question what he is doing (although I could understand him not blooding youngsters last night)

LOL at expecting/wanting a manager to come out and say - im only playing him because its in the loan contract/because the owners cant afford not to.

MMMMMMMmmmmm motivational.

Well most of the barstewards couldn't be less motivated/effective so no real problem there. Better still grow some testicles and refuse to comply with orders to play them if they aren't right for us. He hasn't really got anything to lose because if he doesn't start to turn things around ready for a strong start next season he's going to get fired anyway!

[RoyalBlue]

It looked like McShane was giving out to Williams for not doing his defensive duties and not tracking a Boro player. Williams took exception to the criticism which is ridiculous when it's coming from the captain and reacted badly. Williams should show more respect to the captain of the team and accept that he did something wrong and get on with doing his job for the team. This is just a further example of the poor attitude of some of our players. They are too precious to be criticised even by the club captain.

McShane stood his ground as Williams marched towards him. But McShane didn't need to stick his head in.

McShane did more than stand his ground, he advanced and put his head in. Despite Williams apparently having form, it was McShane who was the aggressor last night - unacceptable conduct from a captain.

This is pretty shameful from both of them. They both need to make very public statements of contrition.

I know in the heat of the game with all of the adrenalin flowing players aren't going to always be calm and dignified, so conditions are somewhat different from an office workplace. HOWEVER, they must make some sort of apology, and maybe a nice donation to some kid's charity or something to show they mean it.

And if the referee had seen it they would probably both have been red carded (which would have been the right decision) - so there's an immediate reason why they have to show they understand how unacceptable this was.

Given that it's now featured by Sky, they could still end up with retrospective red cards if the authorities pick up on it.

[Lower West]

This season we had potentially the best squad in the division

+1. No idea why this phrase keeps cropping up when it's clearly nonsense. It's a squad that's underachieving for sure, but "potentially the best squad in the division"? Not even close.

Yeah. Hurtado was a Chilean international. Other than a cameo appearance away at Rotherham I'm struggling to remember him at all. Departed quietly and one assumes never to return.

[tidus_mi2]

+1. No idea why this phrase keeps cropping up when it's clearly nonsense. It's a squad that's underachieving for sure, but "potentially the best squad in the division"? Not even close.

Yeah. Hurtado was a Chilean international. Other than a cameo appearance away at Rotherham I'm struggling to remember him at all. Departed quietly and one assumes never to return.

Peruvian

[Lower West]

It looked like McShane was giving out to Williams for not doing his defensive duties and not tracking a Boro player.

Something he does on a regular basis. While some players get lots of stick they show far more commitment to the team than others. Too many passengers in the team throughout the season.

[Maneki Neko]

Then maybe he should let people know that. If not, then he is paying the price for being a 'yes man' who 'won't rock the boat'

If it is neither of those reasons, then you do have to question what he is doing (although I could understand him not blooding youngsters last night)

LOL at expecting/wanting a manager to come out and say - im only playing him because its in the loan contract/because the owners cant afford not to.

MMMMMMMmmmmm motivational.

Well most of the barstewards couldn't be less motivated/effective so no real problem there. Better still grow some testicles and refuse to comply with orders to play them if they aren't right for us. He hasn't really got anything to lose because if he doesn't start to turn things around ready for a strong start next season he's going to get fired anyway!

As an example, if we saved a million quid in wages by playing him, that we could spend on a new player, would it be worth it then?

[genome]

+1. No idea why this phrase keeps cropping up when it's clearly nonsense. It's a squad that's underachieving for sure, but "potentially the best squad in the division"? Not even close.

Yeah. Hurtado was a Chilean international. Other than a cameo appearance away at Rotherham I'm struggling to remember him at all. Departed quietly and one assumes never to return.

RIP in peace

[RoyalBlue]

LOL at expecting/wanting a manager to come out and say - im only playing him because its in the loan contract/because the owners cant afford not to.

MMMMMMMmmmmm motivational.

Well most of the barstewards couldn't be less motivated/effective so no real problem there. Better still grow some testicles and refuse to comply with orders to play them if they aren't right for us. He hasn't really got anything to lose because if he doesn't start to turn things around ready for a strong start next season he's going to get fired anyway!

As an example, if we saved a million quid in wages by playing him, that we could spend on a new player, would it be worth it then?

Based on recent signings no!

Still doesn't stop him saying what is happening/the reasoning behind the selection. If the non-performing players are only getting in the team because we have to play them then they should already realise/have been told. Sod molly coddling their frail personalities, they couldn't be performing much worse, should be bigger characters than that and will be gone soon anyway.

[Forbury Lion]

Oh dear!

Assaulting a work colleague would generally mean dismissal. But not in football.

Generally yes, but the employers generally carry out an investigation and ask both parties to give their side of events, speak to witnesses etc. Also, the managers should in my opinion be held to account for not managing their staff and not preventing something like this from happening.

You're joking right? #BlameBrian

I'm not absolving blame from those involved, but a manager is employed to manage staff. If they lose control of the staff then they're not doing their job properly.

In the Army I imagine a Sergeant will be held accountable for the any lack of discipline in his/her men/women, why not the same for a football team? Maybe the manager will have a word with the Captain and tell him to ensure nothing like this happens again, A Captain isn't there just for the pre-game photo opp.

[Maneki Neko]

Still doesn't stop him saying what is happening/the reasoning behind the selection

no, that doesn't stop him, but hes just not going to come out and publicly slam the owners, or previous managers buying policies, or make excuses about it,
& I have no interest in him doing so.

[genome]

Charlie Watts saying McShane apologised to the media for how the incident looked but thinks it has been blown out of proportion, BM confirms both players have been fined.

[Maneki Neko]

good stuff.

needed doing once brian had seen the incident.
glad its been dealt with quickly