Not wishing to put too muc of a damper on this highly intellectual debate, but could I remind everyone that there have only been charges given out so far.
Until the charges are heard there are no guilty parties. The FA has not yet made a judgement other than to decide that in a couple of cases there is prima facie evidence that needs proper investigation in front of a tribunal.
Warnock not charged!!!!!
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West Stand Man
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zac naloen
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AbovetheIWinchester Royal Why did Warnock decide to bring up the Sidwell tackle immediately after Gillespie had been sent off?
Well if it was, and i quote "the worst tackle in the game" maybe he felt Sidwell should have been sent off also?
I still can't understand what Warnock was trying to say exactly, Sidwell got punished with a yellow. It may have been the worst challenge up to that point, but it clearly wasn't a sending off offence. For one he actually won the ball, the timing was slightly off and the player went as well, though..
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glass half full
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Ian Royal
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2 world wars, 1 world cupmikey0406 Just seen a news report on SSN, and the latest to come out of the FA is that both clubs will be charged for failure to control their players, Wally Downess will be charged for adopting an aggressive behaviour and guess what......... Warnock has got off Scott Free!
how is that possible as it was his stamping action that kicked everything off on the touchline.... catalyst for chaos!
Wally Downes - sorry but he was in the wrong technically
Colin - might be guilty but technically did nothing wrong and can't be charged
BUT both clubs being charged with failure to control players????????
WWWWTTTTTFFFFFFF???
HOW exactly was Hunt being the victim of two strikes to the face on separate occasions in any way a failure on the part of RFC to control him??? And how can clubs be punished for not being able to curb basic male instinct to go into an area that look spotentially dangerous to calm things down.
There should only be two charges: one for Downes, and a massive one for Gillespie (which is under way anyway).
And ideally a proper investigation into Colin's inflammatory antics.
players and staff.
alad Watching it again after the push you can see Wally Downes sneak off like a proper bottle job as the others get involved.
WaLOLLOLy Downes.
At the risk of being told that I am the victim of one of Aled's pathetic "fishing" trips, thisislondon
seem to think that Warnock was the one lacking "bottle."
Let me go, demands Gillespie
23.01.07
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... article.do
Flashpoint: Gillespie clashes with Reading's Stephen Hunt
Keith Gillespie stunned Sheffield United
when he handed in a transfer request to the chief executive Terry Robinson.
The 31-year-old winger, sent off during Saturday's stormy 3-1 defeat at Reading for elbowing Stephen Hunt within
seconds of coming on as a substitute, is understood to be upset with the terms of a contract offer at Bramall Lane.
Gillespie intended to hand in his request yesterday, but manager Neil Warnock has gone to Devon for a few days
to cool down following his dismissal at the Madejski Stadium.
He also took the chance to comment on the Plymouth-Coventry match for Sky Sports.
Sources at Reading said Warnock was so concerned that the home side's coach, Wally Downes, wanted to take
their touchline feud further that he locked himself in the dressing room at the final whistle.
Warnock is likely to be cleared by the Football Association inquiry into the bust-up, leaving Downes to take the rap
for sparking the incident.
Both clubs could also be fined. Gillespie is set to be charged for striking Hunt again as he left the pitch. This could signal
an extra suspension of up to three matches, with an added one or two-game ban the most likely outcome.
He was dismissed by referee Mark Halsey without play restarting following his introduction at the Madejski Stadium after
throwing out an arm into Hunt's face.
Disciplinary chiefs were also deliberating last night about charging both clubs over the mass scuffle which involved
players as well as coaches from the two teams.
Taking action against Warnock might have triggered a lengthy ban for the United manager, who, having been forced
to watch his side's first two Premiership games from the directors' box, has a four-match suspended sentence hanging
over him for offences last season.
However, Halsey's report is understood to have absolved him of direct responsibility for the melee, even though he
and Downes were dismissed from the technical area.
Downes is expected to be charged with improper conduct after igniting the row by advancing on Warnock and
shoving him in the chest.
Reading manager Steve Coppell has refused to condemn his right-hand man, who claims to have heard Warnock
shouting "do him" as an instruction to his players.
Downes then reacted to a raised-foot gesture from Warnock. However, Soho Square's compliance unit are
believed to have accepted that a misunderstanding was the cause of the unsavoury scenes.
Warnock insists he raised his foot only to demonstrate his unhappiness with an earlier challenge from Reading
midfielder Steve Sidwell.
Warnock claims to have shouted to Halsey: "Watch it tonight on Match of the Day."
The referee took no action then but intervened when the touchline spat kicked off.
The clubs should expect fines if the FA, as seems probable, bring charges against them today.
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glass half full
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alad
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Far Canalalad Watching it again after the push you can see Wally Downes sneak off like a proper bottle job as the others get involved.
WaLOLLOLy Downes.
At the risk of being told that I am the victim of one of Aled's pathetic "fishing" trips, thisislondon
seem to think that Warnock was the one lacking "bottle."
Let me go, demands Gillespie
23.01.07
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... article.do
Flashpoint: Gillespie clashes with Reading's Stephen Hunt
Keith Gillespie stunned Sheffield United
when he handed in a transfer request to the chief executive Terry Robinson.
The 31-year-old winger, sent off during Saturday's stormy 3-1 defeat at Reading for elbowing Stephen Hunt within
seconds of coming on as a substitute, is understood to be upset with the terms of a contract offer at Bramall Lane.
Gillespie intended to hand in his request yesterday, but manager Neil Warnock has gone to Devon for a few days
to cool down following his dismissal at the Madejski Stadium.
He also took the chance to comment on the Plymouth-Coventry match for Sky Sports.
Sources at Reading said Warnock was so concerned that the home side's coach, Wally Downes, wanted to take
their touchline feud further that he locked himself in the dressing room at the final whistle.
Warnock is likely to be cleared by the Football Association inquiry into the bust-up, leaving Downes to take the rap
for sparking the incident.
Both clubs could also be fined. Gillespie is set to be charged for striking Hunt again as he left the pitch. This could signal
an extra suspension of up to three matches, with an added one or two-game ban the most likely outcome.
He was dismissed by referee Mark Halsey without play restarting following his introduction at the Madejski Stadium after
throwing out an arm into Hunt's face.
Disciplinary chiefs were also deliberating last night about charging both clubs over the mass scuffle which involved
players as well as coaches from the two teams.
Taking action against Warnock might have triggered a lengthy ban for the United manager, who, having been forced
to watch his side's first two Premiership games from the directors' box, has a four-match suspended sentence hanging
over him for offences last season.
However, Halsey's report is understood to have absolved him of direct responsibility for the melee, even though he
and Downes were dismissed from the technical area.
Downes is expected to be charged with improper conduct after igniting the row by advancing on Warnock and
shoving him in the chest.
Reading manager Steve Coppell has refused to condemn his right-hand man, who claims to have heard Warnock
shouting "do him" as an instruction to his players.
Downes then reacted to a raised-foot gesture from Warnock. However, Soho Square's compliance unit are
believed to have accepted that a misunderstanding was the cause of the unsavoury scenes.
Warnock insists he raised his foot only to demonstrate his unhappiness with an earlier challenge from Reading
midfielder Steve Sidwell.
Warnock claims to have shouted to Halsey: "Watch it tonight on Match of the Day."
The referee took no action then but intervened when the touchline spat kicked off.
The clubs should expect fines if the FA, as seems probable, bring charges against them today.
Watch the footage and see Downes slip away. Warnock at the time of the push was drinking and was obviously caught totally by surprise. Wally didn't hang around, just slipped off like a bottle job.
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Royal Rother
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I noticed that. That was quite a silky move to slip out the back, whilstling as he went with his hands in his pockets.
The posts on other threads saying "did you see the look of fear in Warnock's face when Wally came at him" are just another example of the complete one-eyed bullshit spouted by so many over the last few days.
The posts on other threads saying "did you see the look of fear in Warnock's face when Wally came at him" are just another example of the complete one-eyed bullshit spouted by so many over the last few days.
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Barry the bird boggler
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The EP today says this about the FA's decision....
Coppell's shock as Downes in dock but not Warnock
Steve Coppell admits he is surprised by the Football Association’s decision to charge Reading coach Wally Downes with improper conduct yet take no further action against Sheffield United manager Neil Warnock.
The FA yesterday also charged both clubs with failing to control their players and officials following the mass touchline confrontation during the second half of Reading’s 3-1 victory on Saturday.
Although Warnock won’t face any formal disciplinary action, he has been reminded of his responsibilities.
Coppell has thrown his support behind Downes and ruled out any club punishment. The pair will sit down together today to discuss their next move.
While Reading may feel they have little choice but to accept the charges, they will plead mitigating circumstances and ask for personal hearings.
They have until February 7 to make such a request.
Coppell told the Evening Post: “I said after the game that we would abide by whatever the FA decided. But I will sit and have a chat with Wally today and then we’ll make a decision on what we do, but I have to say I am slightly surprised by the weighting of the charge.â€
Coppell's shock as Downes in dock but not Warnock
Steve Coppell admits he is surprised by the Football Association’s decision to charge Reading coach Wally Downes with improper conduct yet take no further action against Sheffield United manager Neil Warnock.
The FA yesterday also charged both clubs with failing to control their players and officials following the mass touchline confrontation during the second half of Reading’s 3-1 victory on Saturday.
Although Warnock won’t face any formal disciplinary action, he has been reminded of his responsibilities.
Coppell has thrown his support behind Downes and ruled out any club punishment. The pair will sit down together today to discuss their next move.
While Reading may feel they have little choice but to accept the charges, they will plead mitigating circumstances and ask for personal hearings.
They have until February 7 to make such a request.
Coppell told the Evening Post: “I said after the game that we would abide by whatever the FA decided. But I will sit and have a chat with Wally today and then we’ll make a decision on what we do, but I have to say I am slightly surprised by the weighting of the charge.â€
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RoyalBlue
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Royal Rother I noticed that. That was quite a silky move to slip out the back, whilstling as he went with his hands in his pockets.
The posts on other threads saying "did you see the look of fear in Warnock's face when Wally came at him" are just another example of the complete one-eyed bullshit spouted by so many over the last few days.
Of course you are never guilty of that! - Spacey, you and I are in rare agreement!
Whether or not Wally slinked off - and I suspect that was due to the fact he came to his senses and realised what he had done, rather than because he bottled it - Warncock still looked scared when he first turned to see Wally there. That would appear to be supported by his claim that he was so scared that he hid away after the game.
I wonder whether you will feel comfortable telling Wally to his face that he is a bottle job!
As for blinkered, you seem so keen to absolve Warncock of all blame in all respects that I am beginning to wonder whether you sit on the FA disciplinary committee!
'Reminded of his responsibilities'! How many more times are the cupid stunts going to just remind him of that, in effect letting him off scot free?!
He'd surely already been 'reminded of his responsibilities' as part of the disciplinary proceedings that have left a four match ban suspended over him.
From the Chronicle:
WALLY Downes is standing by his actions after being hit with an FA improper conduct charge following his bust-up with Neil Warnock.
Reading's first-team coach is ready to inform Football Association chiefs exactly what the Sheffield United boss said to make him lose his cool last weekend.
The pair were sent off for clashing on the sidelines minutes after Blades' winger Keith Gillespie had been dismissed for smacking Stephen Hunt in the face during Reading's turbulent 3-1 victory.
It was then that Warnock made a stamping gesture which Downes interpreted as an instruction for his team to deliberately harm Reading's players.
Downes responded by shoving Warnock in United's technical area which sparked a melee and yesterday (Wednesday) both clubs were charged by the FA for failing to control their players and staff.
But Warnock, who had a four-match suspended sentence hanging over him, escaped with only a warning and was 'reminded of his responsibilities.'
However, Downes is determined to stop Warnock walking away scot-free and will spill the beans at a disciplinary hearing.
Downes told The Chronicle: "He tried putting his own spin on things and got it in early.
"He locked himself in that dressing room for an hour putting his story together. He gave his sequence of events in the hope the powers-that-be would believe him.
"But I know what I heard and what I saw and there is no parallel between what he said and the answers I'll give the FA when I see them. I will tell them exactly what happened. I will give my side of the events and I have people who can back me up because they heard it too."
The suggestion is Warnock told Blades midfielder Nick Montgomery to 'do him' in relation to a heavy challenge by Reading's Steve Sidwell on Chris Armstrong.
But Warnock claimed he was merely alerting referee Mark Halsey to Sidwell's tackle.
"Wally ran across and pushed us," said Warnock. "He's trying to say I'm telling people to break legs again, which is absolute garbage. The referee heard what I said, he's the one that matters."
However, Downes insists Halsey was out of ear-shot when Warnock made his inflammatory comments about seeking retribution.
"I know what I saw and what I heard and I can't speak for the referee," fumed Downes. "But you can only hold your tongue and let things go for so long.
"Sometimes you have to take a stand and I couldn't sit back and let him say things like that about our players.
"I've got a good disciplinary record. I've been coaching since 1989 and I've never been told to leave the bench, sent off or anything like that.
"I have no problem with any managers or anybody else. But look at Neil Warnock's record and you will see there is something going on with him every week.
"It's not like me to get the hump with managers or officials but there is definitely a problem in this case."
Warnock claimed his feud with Downes goes back years to when the Reading coach worked with Stan Ternent at Crystal Palace.
But Downes insisted: "Neil says we've got history but we haven't. He said it started when I was number two to Stan Ternent which is wrong.
"I wasn't his number two, I was working with the Crystal Palace youth team with Stan.
"Anyway, Neil had a problem with Stan at Burnley when he was at Bury. I was nothing to do with that so there's never been history as far as I'm concerned.
"But a similar thing happened last year with Reading when he was sent off after a row with the referee which was nothing to do with me again.
"He complained about a penalty they should have had yet they got the best decision of the game when Paddy Kenny didn't get sent off. This time there was no reason for me to be irate. We were 2-0 up, playing well and they were down to 10 men. I was really happy with the way things were going."
Warnock's suspended four-game touchline ban relates to a match against Leeds United last season when he took exception to a tackle by Gary Kelly.
Warnock told ex-Leeds manager Kevin Blackwell: 'I hope he breaks his leg next time,' which was heard by the fourth official.
Reading, Sheffield United and Downes have until Wednesday, February 7 to respond to the charges.
Meanwhile, Gillespie has been banned for three games for his red card. That could be increased after he was seen striking Hunt a second time as he left the pitch.
The Northern Ireland international has requested a personal hearing next Tuesday.
WALLY Downes is standing by his actions after being hit with an FA improper conduct charge following his bust-up with Neil Warnock.
Reading's first-team coach is ready to inform Football Association chiefs exactly what the Sheffield United boss said to make him lose his cool last weekend.
The pair were sent off for clashing on the sidelines minutes after Blades' winger Keith Gillespie had been dismissed for smacking Stephen Hunt in the face during Reading's turbulent 3-1 victory.
It was then that Warnock made a stamping gesture which Downes interpreted as an instruction for his team to deliberately harm Reading's players.
Downes responded by shoving Warnock in United's technical area which sparked a melee and yesterday (Wednesday) both clubs were charged by the FA for failing to control their players and staff.
But Warnock, who had a four-match suspended sentence hanging over him, escaped with only a warning and was 'reminded of his responsibilities.'
However, Downes is determined to stop Warnock walking away scot-free and will spill the beans at a disciplinary hearing.
Downes told The Chronicle: "He tried putting his own spin on things and got it in early.
"He locked himself in that dressing room for an hour putting his story together. He gave his sequence of events in the hope the powers-that-be would believe him.
"But I know what I heard and what I saw and there is no parallel between what he said and the answers I'll give the FA when I see them. I will tell them exactly what happened. I will give my side of the events and I have people who can back me up because they heard it too."
The suggestion is Warnock told Blades midfielder Nick Montgomery to 'do him' in relation to a heavy challenge by Reading's Steve Sidwell on Chris Armstrong.
But Warnock claimed he was merely alerting referee Mark Halsey to Sidwell's tackle.
"Wally ran across and pushed us," said Warnock. "He's trying to say I'm telling people to break legs again, which is absolute garbage. The referee heard what I said, he's the one that matters."
However, Downes insists Halsey was out of ear-shot when Warnock made his inflammatory comments about seeking retribution.
"I know what I saw and what I heard and I can't speak for the referee," fumed Downes. "But you can only hold your tongue and let things go for so long.
"Sometimes you have to take a stand and I couldn't sit back and let him say things like that about our players.
"I've got a good disciplinary record. I've been coaching since 1989 and I've never been told to leave the bench, sent off or anything like that.
"I have no problem with any managers or anybody else. But look at Neil Warnock's record and you will see there is something going on with him every week.
"It's not like me to get the hump with managers or officials but there is definitely a problem in this case."
Warnock claimed his feud with Downes goes back years to when the Reading coach worked with Stan Ternent at Crystal Palace.
But Downes insisted: "Neil says we've got history but we haven't. He said it started when I was number two to Stan Ternent which is wrong.
"I wasn't his number two, I was working with the Crystal Palace youth team with Stan.
"Anyway, Neil had a problem with Stan at Burnley when he was at Bury. I was nothing to do with that so there's never been history as far as I'm concerned.
"But a similar thing happened last year with Reading when he was sent off after a row with the referee which was nothing to do with me again.
"He complained about a penalty they should have had yet they got the best decision of the game when Paddy Kenny didn't get sent off. This time there was no reason for me to be irate. We were 2-0 up, playing well and they were down to 10 men. I was really happy with the way things were going."
Warnock's suspended four-game touchline ban relates to a match against Leeds United last season when he took exception to a tackle by Gary Kelly.
Warnock told ex-Leeds manager Kevin Blackwell: 'I hope he breaks his leg next time,' which was heard by the fourth official.
Reading, Sheffield United and Downes have until Wednesday, February 7 to respond to the charges.
Meanwhile, Gillespie has been banned for three games for his red card. That could be increased after he was seen striking Hunt a second time as he left the pitch.
The Northern Ireland international has requested a personal hearing next Tuesday.
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Royal Rother
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RoyalBlue
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Royal Rother He'd just been shoved when he hadn't seen it coming for God's sake! Of course he was shocked for a brief moment. How the hell do you expect him to react?
Jeez!
Makes it no less entertaining/rewarding!
I suppose the bit about him being so scared of Wally that he locked himself away for an hour is lies?
Of course not. Silly me, Warnock never lies!
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Royal Rother
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There was a report in The Times today suggesting that Mark Halsey did NOT in fact concur with Warnock's assertion that his (Warnocks) comments were solely about Sidwell's earlier tackle, and that the ref would back him up in his report.
It would appear that Halsey made NO mention of ANYTHING said from the touchline immediately before the fracas.
It also stated that Reading and Wally in particular, are asking for a personal hearing in order to state the reasons for the (as they saw it) provocation that led to Wally's shove (this appears to be backed up by the Chronicle article earlier in this thread)
From this you can conclude that the ref has turned a blind eye to the whole build up to the shoving match, probably because he wouldn't have known who shouted what, even if he could hear it.
However, if Wally and RFC produce evidence to support their claim that there WAS provocation (maybe using the Sky footage that shows Warnock clearly mouthing "Monty, break his f****** legs" whilst doing the stamping motion), there may be some further developments to come.
It would appear that Halsey made NO mention of ANYTHING said from the touchline immediately before the fracas.
It also stated that Reading and Wally in particular, are asking for a personal hearing in order to state the reasons for the (as they saw it) provocation that led to Wally's shove (this appears to be backed up by the Chronicle article earlier in this thread)
From this you can conclude that the ref has turned a blind eye to the whole build up to the shoving match, probably because he wouldn't have known who shouted what, even if he could hear it.
However, if Wally and RFC produce evidence to support their claim that there WAS provocation (maybe using the Sky footage that shows Warnock clearly mouthing "Monty, break his f****** legs" whilst doing the stamping motion), there may be some further developments to come.
Last edited by Mr Angry on 25 Jan 2007 14:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Gordons Cumming
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Wycombe Royal
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It looks like we won't be admitting to the charges.
http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,10306~970595,00.html
http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,10306~970595,00.html
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