T.R.O.L.I. Still waiting for a response to my question.....
Good luck.
Long - time for a change?
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Ian Royal
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Good luck.
T.R.O.L.I. Still waiting for a response to my question.....
I prefer not to answer stupid questions.
Asking how many points a player has cost us is ridiculous. A player may score an own-goal but do great work preventing three others.
A player may miss two chances, but if other strikers ALSO miss chances, which one cost us the points?
A player may miss a chance but our keeper fluffs an easy save. Who cost the points?
A not-too-bright fan may focus solely on a missed chance but ignore a players other contributions.
A not-too-bright fan might try to judge a player over too short a period.
Long now has scored 23 goals, 18 in open play. He also has about 8 assists. He has also won 5 other penalties, 3 of which were scored
That is a direct part in half of our goals.
Judge a player on a season. I said he was a 20-goal Championship player. I was right.
Form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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T.R.O.L.I.
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SnowballT.R.O.L.I. Still waiting for a response to my question.....
I prefer not to answer stupid questions.
Instead you resort to spamming the board with pointless stats.
Do you accept that the post I made was borne out of frustration with the amount of chances Long had been missing or do you, as you seem to be alluding to, think that I thought he would never come good?
T.R.O.L.I. FAO Snowball - Still waiting for a response to my question.....
Also, all of my posts you have quoted appear to have come from the same day - that being 11/12/10 (the evening of the Coventry game). Do you not think that it is possible to make an valid observation at a given point in time given the facts available but then that same observation ends up incorrect?
All this holier than thou crap doesn't cover up how bad Long's first half of the season was (which is what my post was based on) - Mick Gooding even said the same on BBCRB tonight
Just to reiterate - I am delighted that Long has been banging in the goals since Christmas and am also delighted that McD kept him in the team when I (and others) thought he should have been rested. I still, however, stand by my original post at the time it was posted.
The first half of the season?
Long scored EIGHT goals before Xmas, that was ten by December 26th less than half a season. That's better than half the Championship strikers do in a season.
10 Goals in 24 (1) is a very very good strike rate. No doubt, according to some the is "Long never scores until January"
Why can't you people get basic facts right?
T.R.O.L.I.SnowballT.R.O.L.I. Still waiting for a response to my question.....
I prefer not to answer stupid questions.
Instead you resort to spamming the board with pointless stats.
Do you accept that the post I made was borne out of frustration with the amount of chances Long had been missing or do you, as you seem to be alluding to, think that I thought he would never come good?
I couldn't care less. You really expect me to decide on which emotions drove you to post?
You like so many before you posted a typical knee-jerk post along the lines of the LONG - TIME TO GO thread.
LONG. I was right.
KEBE. I was right.
HARTE. I was right.
It's about time people on this list supported players a bit more
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seahawk10
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SnowballT.R.O.L.I.
Instead you resort to spamming the board with pointless stats.
Do you accept that the post I made was borne out of frustration with the amount of chances Long had been missing or do you, as you seem to be alluding to, think that I thought he would never come good?
I couldn't care less. You really expect me to decide on which emotions drove you to post?
You like so many before you posted a typical knee-jerk post along the lines of the LONG - TIME TO GO thread.
LONG. I was right.
KEBE. I was right.
HARTE. I was right.
It's about time people on this list supported players a bit more
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T.R.O.L.I.
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SnowballT.R.O.L.I. FAO Snowball - Still waiting for a response to my question.....
Also, all of my posts you have quoted appear to have come from the same day - that being 11/12/10 (the evening of the Coventry game). Do you not think that it is possible to make an valid observation at a given point in time given the facts available but then that same observation ends up incorrect?
All this holier than thou crap doesn't cover up how bad Long's first half of the season was (which is what my post was based on) - Mick Gooding even said the same on BBCRB tonight
Just to reiterate - I am delighted that Long has been banging in the goals since Christmas and am also delighted that McD kept him in the team when I (and others) thought he should have been rested. I still, however, stand by my original post at the time it was posted.
The first half of the season?
Long scored EIGHT goals before Xmas, that was ten by December 26th less than half a season. That's better than half the Championship strikers do in a season.
10 Goals in 24 (1) is a very very good strike rate. No doubt, according to some the is "Long never scores until January"
Why can't you people get basic facts right?
6 goals for Reading pre Xmas (his goals for Ireland have no bearing on RFC)
4 goals for Reading before Derby (a) on 18/12 - which was the game AFTER my original post.
Why can't you accept that the thread was in direct response to his return of 4 goals in 19 odd games (as I stated in the early pages)? And please show me where I said that he "would never come good" or that he "had no class"? All I wanted was for McD to give one of the other strikers a chance as I couldn't see Long scoring. Yes Long then started scoring so my post was proved wrong. So be it.
As for getting all worked up about "first half of the season" - you can argue semantics all you wish however, as I will repeat as you seem to struggle to understand this, up until Coventry was the best part of half a season. Perhaps I should of written "best part of half a season" - I would have thought that most normal people would have realised the point in time that this whole thread was based on but hey ho.
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Ian Royal
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Give up TROLI, he's incapable of distinguishing the difference between reasonable criticism and unreasonable criticism. Or distinguishing between the difference between people who always slag off everyone, and people who have geniune concerns about the odd player.
Or ever conceeding any ground on anything at all.
Or ever conceeding any ground on anything at all.
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T.R.O.L.I.
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Snowball You like so many before you posted a typical knee-jerk post along the lines of the LONG - TIME TO GO thread.
Knee-jerk? I wouldn't call posting about giving another striker a chance after the incumbent striker had missed many decent chances in five consecutive games knee-jerk.
Did I say he should be sold? No
Did I say he would never come good? No
Did I say he should be dropped to the bench? Yes
Did I say that he should never be brought back into the first team after being dropped? No
Considering the height of the horse you're sat on, I assume you've never made a mistake in anything in your life?
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seahawk10
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T.R.O.L.I. and Snowball, please come here. Seven wins in a row! Seven! Can I get you two to agree to hug it out if we are promoted?
No sense in arguing on such a wonderful day! What a result!
Hug it out! You know it makes sense!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZvarRe-XVQ
No sense in arguing on such a wonderful day! What a result!
Hug it out! You know it makes sense!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZvarRe-XVQ
T.R.O.L.I.
As for getting all worked up about "first half of the season" - you can argue semantics all you wish however, as I will repeat as you seem to struggle to understand this, up until Coventry was the best part of half a season. Perhaps I should of written "best part of half a season" - I would have thought that most normal people would have realised the point in time that this whole thread was based on but hey ho.
A season = 46 league games plus some cup games.
Half a season is up to (at least) the 23rd league game, which was the one after Boxing Day.
You said half a season. By that date Long had scored ten goals. Fact.
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T.R.O.L.I.
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What was the date of the original post? And which game was that after?
T.R.O.L.I. What was the date of the original post? And which game was that after?
I don't care.
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jonnyroyal1871
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Ok, I was bored and should have been doing other things - but for some unknown reason have just read all of this thread, and I am going to come at this argument from a different perspective.
The STATISTICS oft quoted in this thread are actually pretty irrelevant, and oddly enough, with only the occasional exception, most of what people have contributed to this thread makes sense in one form or another.
Lets look at a few things...As you seem to want to refuse to acknowledge, TROLI was advocating Long was RESTED after an 'average' start to the season. A sensible argument, based on a) our form at the time, and b) his 'average' success at the goalscoring side of his game. He didn't suggest he should be taken outside and shot.......
Next, as Long came to us untried to all intense and purposes, Snowball, you couldn't sensibly have become an advocate of the potential success of Long as a goalscorer without having seen him do what he had done over a couple of seasons, which was pick up a decent record given a lack of starting opportunities, and the scoring of a number of vital goals with the game time he had.
It is a KNOWN quantity that the coaching staff were unsure of Longs potential when he first came, and it has been told to me first hand by a senior staff member that he was a makeweight in the Doyle deal, a friendly face away from home for the first time. His fee, and wages were cheap, and he was a punt.
Its all too easy to bang the drum with some prior knowledge that in all probability, given a system that suited, a decent run in the team, fitness being as it should, he would score goals, to add to the never disputed other assets to his game.
This ain't statistics, its plain common sense.
BMD took a risk, he had nurtured Long, but had few other options, with Nhunt injured, and Church not especially prolific at any point in his career.
Hey, its worked out, big time, and nobody is more pleased than me, and every other Royal, but there was a reasonable chance it would work out this way - so well done for being right, but your lack of grace, and lack of acceptance that it was a calculated choice, and few other options were available.
Also, your championing of Harte is not rocket science either, that was shrewd business based on all known form, fit and taking free kicks he would score goals, he always has, at every level.
I don't doubt you are a reasonable judge, I just think you are playing a % game, and in doing so, will naturally be right more than you will be wrong.
That, isn't statistics, thats probabilities.....
The STATISTICS oft quoted in this thread are actually pretty irrelevant, and oddly enough, with only the occasional exception, most of what people have contributed to this thread makes sense in one form or another.
Lets look at a few things...As you seem to want to refuse to acknowledge, TROLI was advocating Long was RESTED after an 'average' start to the season. A sensible argument, based on a) our form at the time, and b) his 'average' success at the goalscoring side of his game. He didn't suggest he should be taken outside and shot.......
Next, as Long came to us untried to all intense and purposes, Snowball, you couldn't sensibly have become an advocate of the potential success of Long as a goalscorer without having seen him do what he had done over a couple of seasons, which was pick up a decent record given a lack of starting opportunities, and the scoring of a number of vital goals with the game time he had.
It is a KNOWN quantity that the coaching staff were unsure of Longs potential when he first came, and it has been told to me first hand by a senior staff member that he was a makeweight in the Doyle deal, a friendly face away from home for the first time. His fee, and wages were cheap, and he was a punt.
Its all too easy to bang the drum with some prior knowledge that in all probability, given a system that suited, a decent run in the team, fitness being as it should, he would score goals, to add to the never disputed other assets to his game.
This ain't statistics, its plain common sense.
BMD took a risk, he had nurtured Long, but had few other options, with Nhunt injured, and Church not especially prolific at any point in his career.
Hey, its worked out, big time, and nobody is more pleased than me, and every other Royal, but there was a reasonable chance it would work out this way - so well done for being right, but your lack of grace, and lack of acceptance that it was a calculated choice, and few other options were available.
Also, your championing of Harte is not rocket science either, that was shrewd business based on all known form, fit and taking free kicks he would score goals, he always has, at every level.
I don't doubt you are a reasonable judge, I just think you are playing a % game, and in doing so, will naturally be right more than you will be wrong.
That, isn't statistics, thats probabilities.....
Sorry, Johnny but that is RUBBISH.
I started a thread on Long best part of two and a half YEARS ago and I was ridiculed and pilloried for it.
The vast majority of the "experts" on this list didn't just say "work in progress". Most were ADAMANT
that Long was a NON-footballer who would never BE a footballer and we should get rid of him.
A few thought that MAYBE, if he had gone out on loan to a league 1 or League 2 side he MIGHT have
become a decent player, but almost certainly NOT a Championship player, and DEFINITELY not a
player good enough to play in the Premiership.
There have been countless threads on this board calling for Long to be dumped.
Read that last sentence again. The clear message was not in doubt. It was GET RID.
Not from everybody, but certainly a large majority of posters. As recently as a month ago
he still had his doubters.
As for me playing a percentage game that is ridiculous. Defending Shane Long at the time virtually
guaranteed ridicule and the HNA Hyenas baying at the door.
I have also defended Harte and Kebe. If that was so "obvious" how come the posting majority
all attacked both players?
Some posters have simply said, "I got it wrong when I slated Long. Well done, Shane." Ditto Harte or Kebe.
Others back-track or change what they said.
As for percentages. I actually said that presuming Harte's fitness was OK, and given that he got 18 goals
last season, we should expect at least HALF of that in a higher league. I put my faith in the manager
and Harte's pedigree, and, like a few others (but a small minority) I've been proved right.
That same "brilliant" majority didn't exactly praise Elwood when he started, either.
I started a thread on Long best part of two and a half YEARS ago and I was ridiculed and pilloried for it.
The vast majority of the "experts" on this list didn't just say "work in progress". Most were ADAMANT
that Long was a NON-footballer who would never BE a footballer and we should get rid of him.
A few thought that MAYBE, if he had gone out on loan to a league 1 or League 2 side he MIGHT have
become a decent player, but almost certainly NOT a Championship player, and DEFINITELY not a
player good enough to play in the Premiership.
There have been countless threads on this board calling for Long to be dumped.
Read that last sentence again. The clear message was not in doubt. It was GET RID.
Not from everybody, but certainly a large majority of posters. As recently as a month ago
he still had his doubters.
As for me playing a percentage game that is ridiculous. Defending Shane Long at the time virtually
guaranteed ridicule and the HNA Hyenas baying at the door.
I have also defended Harte and Kebe. If that was so "obvious" how come the posting majority
all attacked both players?
Some posters have simply said, "I got it wrong when I slated Long. Well done, Shane." Ditto Harte or Kebe.
Others back-track or change what they said.
As for percentages. I actually said that presuming Harte's fitness was OK, and given that he got 18 goals
last season, we should expect at least HALF of that in a higher league. I put my faith in the manager
and Harte's pedigree, and, like a few others (but a small minority) I've been proved right.
That same "brilliant" majority didn't exactly praise Elwood when he started, either.
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RoyalJames101
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Snowball why do you take everything so literally?
RoyalJames101 Snowball why do you take everything so literally?
My best guess is Asperger's
That Friday FeelingRoyalJames101 Snowball why do you take everything so literally?
My best guess is Asperger's
So what's your worst guess?
As well as his 23+3 goals this season I see after today that Long also has 10+1 assists (and earned 3 penalties scored by Harte)
Responsible for forty goals!
Responsible for forty goals!
10-2-3-5 = 20 Assists DOYLE
Shane now has 17 assists
Shane now has 17 assists
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