Adkins - Pros and Cons

[Hoop Blah]

Of course a crowd can have an impact on the way a player or team play, to certain degrees anyway.

We've seen it at Reading where some players have appeared to crumble under a bit of pressure from the crowd and, more relevant to this conversation, where the players look to lose composure when the crowd gets impatient.

Crowds like those at Wolves, Villa, Newcastle or Spurs all seem to have a significant bearing on the way their teams play and it's always been the aim of away teams to 'silent the crowd' with a good start to try and get the fans on the home teams back at places like Molineux or St James.

The Madejski crowd is relatively polite and restrained, and so good to play for in front of for an underperforming team in many senses, but we're also used to a certain brand of football and the tempo that goes with it which means we're too often impatient with what a more measured approach when we see it. I really don't think that's helped either Rodgers or Adkins evolve our play when they've tried.

I don't quite by into the '12th man' factor, but I think it would be daft to suggest that the crowd can't have some effect on a bunch of humans irrespective of how much their paid.

[Royal Rother]

Every time they are asked, Williams and Gooding (and every other player I've ever heard offer an opinion on the subject) confirm that when the atmosphere is charged and positive it helps pull out another percentage from the players.

To suggest that the amount they are paid should be enough anyway shows a laughably staggering ignorance of how human beings function.

Or just an indication that some people will argue with everything Ian Royal says just for the hell of it no matter how stupid it makes them look to those with a functioning brain. Still, at least it appears there's a degree of comfort in their collective ignorance.

Presume that's to me.

You want try watching a few Reading games, you might not be so high up on your horse then.

To suggest that the players are playing badly "because of the fans" is ridiculous, as you well know. My comment about their pay was that, it shouldn't matter whether they are liked or not, they are paid very well to do their job. To be honest though, I think they are all doing the best they can within the constraints of the tactics, positioning given to them. I've been to many games where fans have been brilliant and really got behind them, but it won't change the results at the moment because tactically we are just inept.

It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular as once read I moved on without looking back on the authorship.

You always try to bring things back to me not going to games, but once again, my comment is not based on any game, just a general comment about how people react in certain situations, and recalling comments made by real-life footballers (not fans with their head up their arses) about how the crowd can have an impact on their performances.

PS I'm not blaming the crowd (although I do think booing is shite) you all have a right to express your opinions having paid your money, and the interaction between crowd and team certainly works both ways, I'm just saying it as it is re the effect of the vibe from crowd to players.

[bcubed]

Of course a crowd can have an impact on the way a player or team play, to certain degrees anyway.

We've seen it at Reading where some players have appeared to crumble under a bit of pressure from the crowd and, more relevant to this conversation, where the players look to lose composure when the crowd gets impatient.

Crowds like those at Wolves, Villa, Newcastle or Spurs all seem to have a significant bearing on the way their teams play and it's always been the aim of away teams to 'silent the crowd' with a good start to try and get the fans on the home teams back at places like Molineux or St James.

The Madejski crowd is relatively polite and restrained, and so good to play for in front of for an underperforming team in many senses, but we're also used to a certain brand of football and the tempo that goes with it which means we're too often impatient with what a more measured approach when we see it. I really don't think that's helped either Rodgers or Adkins evolve our play when they've tried.

I don't quite by into the '12th man' factor, but I think it would be daft to suggest that the crowd can't have some effect on a bunch of humans irrespective of how much their paid.

I don't think many would argue with this but the point being made was the crowd was to blame for poor performances as opposed to the manager

The crowd can influence but the manager is pretty obviously (or so I thought before this thread started) responsible for motivation, energy, tactics and performance.

[Ian Royal]

But after a win away followed by a fairly poor home performance, has it occurred to anyone that it's not Adkins who's lost the players... but the fans?

Using a sample size of two games is an interesting approach to proving a point. If we widen it out to the season so far then presumably we've done better away from home then?

Who is trying to prove anything?

And i don't see how the fans could possibly have lost the team before the season started. In fact bar the last few home games they've been pretty supportive.

[Hoop Blah]

Of course a crowd can have an impact on the way a player or team play, to certain degrees anyway.

We've seen it at Reading where some players have appeared to crumble under a bit of pressure from the crowd and, more relevant to this conversation, where the players look to lose composure when the crowd gets impatient.

Crowds like those at Wolves, Villa, Newcastle or Spurs all seem to have a significant bearing on the way their teams play and it's always been the aim of away teams to 'silent the crowd' with a good start to try and get the fans on the home teams back at places like Molineux or St James.

The Madejski crowd is relatively polite and restrained, and so good to play for in front of for an underperforming team in many senses, but we're also used to a certain brand of football and the tempo that goes with it which means we're too often impatient with what a more measured approach when we see it. I really don't think that's helped either Rodgers or Adkins evolve our play when they've tried.

I don't quite by into the '12th man' factor, but I think it would be daft to suggest that the crowd can't have some effect on a bunch of humans irrespective of how much their paid.

I don't think many would argue with this but the point being made was the crowd was to blame for poor performances as opposed to the manager

The crowd can influence but the manager is pretty obviously (or so I thought before this thread started) responsible for motivation, energy, tactics and performance.

Really?

I'd say the suggestion was that the home crowd isn't really helping and that was contributing to poor home performances and results. I may well have missed it, but I don't remember seeing anyone claiming the manager wasn't at all responsible and that it was just the fault of an impatient home crowd.

[leon]

I'll say it again. The crowd has been extremely patient. I couldn't see any of the fans listed above being so patient as ours. So it shows it's getting bad when you get a bit of booing.

[LUX]

results subsequent to the heated vilification the Newcastle and West Ham fans gave their respective managers in September seem to have either:

a. worked wonders, well done lads, getting those managers to buck their ideas up, or

b. shown them up as clueless sacktheboardsackthemanagerfootballmongsheep.

The decision is yours.

[SCIAG]

I'll say it again. The crowd has been extremely patient.

The players were booed off at half time in the third league match of the season because of two crucial mistakes.

Our fans might have been patient once upon a time, but they haven't been for quite a while. I'm not sure what the turning point was, but I think it was in the first half of one of McDermott's two full seasons.

These days we barely even mention anything when the players are booed off after a narrow defeat, we've just come to accept it.

[Hoop Blah]

I'll say it again. The crowd has been extremely patient.

The players were booed off at half time in the third league match of the season because of two crucial mistakes.

Our fans might have been patient once upon a time, but they haven't been for quite a while. I'm not sure what the turning point was, but I think it was in the first half of one of McDermott's two full seasons.

These days we barely even mention anything when the players are booed off after a narrow defeat, we've just come to accept it.

I'd say the fans have been very patient with the manager and the owners/board but on a match day they get impatient with the way the team are playing.

Yeah they've had a few grumbles and boo'd now and again. I think the bigger issue, if there really is one, is that as a crowd we get agitated at the players for trying to keep the ball and build slowly. it's just not something we're used to or, as a group, very open to sitting back and watch.

I think the bigger problem at home is that teams still come to us thinking they're coming to one of the bigger and better squads and so approach the game differently and we're just not very good at breaking teams down.

[Cureton's Volley]

So it appears it might not be ALL his fault after all...

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/286367.php

[SCIAG]

I'd say the fans have been very patient with the manager and the owners/board but on a match day they get impatient with the way the team are playing.

Yeah they've had a few grumbles and boo'd now and again. I think the bigger issue, if there really is one, is that as a crowd we get agitated at the players for trying to keep the ball and build slowly. it's just not something we're used to or, as a group, very open to sitting back and watch.

I think the bigger problem at home is that teams still come to us thinking they're coming to one of the bigger and better squads and so approach the game differently and we're just not very good at breaking teams down.

I think that's all fair comment.

I'm not sure whether teams necessarily think highly of us, or have just noticed that we're not particularly good at breaking down teams that aren't Rotherham if they sit back. Throw in a weakness to the counter attack and presto, we're quite easy to set up against.

Now you mention it, I wonder if this is the problem that HRK in particular is having. He has usually done better against bigger sides and teams who were in need of a goal. He's not particularly good at breaking teams down, rather exploiting their weaknesses.

[Silver Fox]

results subsequent to the heated vilification the Newcastle and West Ham fans gave their respective managers in September seem to have either:

a. worked wonders, well done lads, getting those managers to buck their ideas up, or

b. shown them up as clueless sacktheboardsackthemanagerfootballmongsheep.

The decision is yours.

Unfortunately those clubs both have competent English managers

[Westwood52]

In my opinion-Adkins influence is definitely on the wain -when he first came here first-he tried to play tika tika a la Barca-then found out the players we had weren't up to it-he brought in some players pre season & tried again -the defence then imploded -now based on last Saturday's game & the previous couple of weeks we now knock it long & hope for the best from set pieces-this is def against his principles. However he is now a worried man and has only one thing on his mind and that is survival by any means.

January signings now look a lost cause-so I think he is already hoping for a better pre season next summer.

Our one chance of making an impact this season-is hope that Williams & McCleary get back to their best & he can get Mackie & Ferdinand fit-then hope they can drag our better more experienced players Norwood/Gunter/Murray along with them.

[leon]

I'll say it again. The crowd has been extremely patient.

The players were booed off at half time in the third league match of the season because of two crucial mistakes.

Our fans might have been patient once upon a time, but they haven't been for quite a while. I'm not sure what the turning point was, but I think it was in the first half of one of McDermott's two full seasons.

These days we barely even mention anything when the players are booed off after a narrow defeat, we've just come to accept it.

sorry m8 but 20 years ago we would have all been on the pitch

[tidus_mi2]

I'll say it again. The crowd has been extremely patient.

The players were booed off at half time in the third league match of the season because of two crucial mistakes.

Our fans might have been patient once upon a time, but they haven't been for quite a while. I'm not sure what the turning point was, but I think it was in the first half of one of McDermott's two full seasons.

These days we barely even mention anything when the players are booed off after a narrow defeat, we've just come to accept it.

It's interesting, at the Bolton match at half time and full time when there was bits of booing, both times I said to my dad "What the oxf*rd are they booing for?" I ended up looking around, seeing if anyone was as bewildered as I was.

I don't boo but I at least get it in some cases, such as getting dicked 3-0 by Wigan at home, I wouldn't do it but I can see why people would boo. The Bolton game wasn't great but I don't think we particularly looked like losing either and probably had the better of the very few chances.

[floyd__streete]

LOL @ blaming the crowd in any way whatsoever for Reading being uttershit

[Ian Royal]

I'll say it again. The crowd has been extremely patient.

The players were booed off at half time in the third league match of the season because of two crucial mistakes.

Our fans might have been patient once upon a time, but they haven't been for quite a while. I'm not sure what the turning point was, but I think it was in the first half of one of McDermott's two full seasons.

These days we barely even mention anything when the players are booed off after a narrow defeat, we've just come to accept it.

I'd say the fans have been very patient with the manager and the owners/board but on a match day they get impatient with the way the team are playing.

Yeah they've had a few grumbles and boo'd now and again. I think the bigger issue, if there really is one, is that as a crowd we get agitated at the players for trying to keep the ball and build slowly. it's just not something we're used to or, as a group, very open to sitting back and watch.

I think the bigger problem at home is that teams still come to us thinking they're coming to one of the bigger and better squads and so approach the game differently and we're just not very good at breaking teams down.

This is pretty good stuff IMO.

And you're right above Hoop, my suggestion was not that everything is the fans fault. But that a lack of energy at home is just as easily explained by nerves caused by fan discontent and lack of support as it is by the tired suggestion that the manager has lost the players that's trotted out pretty much every time the team has a poor run of results or performances. Or even draws one game.

[Ian Royal]

In my opinion-Adkins influence is definitely on the wain -when he first came here first-he tried to play tika tika a la Barca-then found out the players we had weren't up to it-he brought in some players pre season & tried again -the defence then imploded -now based on last Saturday's game & the previous couple of weeks we now knock it long & hope for the best from set pieces-this is def against his principles. However he is now a worried man and has only one thing on his mind and that is survival by any means.

January signings now look a lost cause-so I think he is already hoping for a better pre season next summer.

Our one chance of making an impact this season-is hope that Williams & McCleary get back to their best & he can get Mackie & Ferdinand fit-then hope they can drag our better more experienced players Norwood/Gunter/Murray along with them.

No. No he didn't.

[bcubed]

Of course a crowd can have an impact on the way a player or team play, to certain degrees anyway.

We've seen it at Reading where some players have appeared to crumble under a bit of pressure from the crowd and, more relevant to this conversation, where the players look to lose composure when the crowd gets impatient.

Crowds like those at Wolves, Villa, Newcastle or Spurs all seem to have a significant bearing on the way their teams play and it's always been the aim of away teams to 'silent the crowd' with a good start to try and get the fans on the home teams back at places like Molineux or St James.

The Madejski crowd is relatively polite and restrained, and so good to play for in front of for an underperforming team in many senses, but we're also used to a certain brand of football and the tempo that goes with it which means we're too often impatient with what a more measured approach when we see it. I really don't think that's helped either Rodgers or Adkins evolve our play when they've tried.

I don't quite by into the '12th man' factor, but I think it would be daft to suggest that the crowd can't have some effect on a bunch of humans irrespective of how much their paid.

I don't think many would argue with this but the point being made was the crowd was to blame for poor performances as opposed to the manager

The crowd can influence but the manager is pretty obviously (or so I thought before this thread started) responsible for motivation, energy, tactics and performance.

Really?

I'd say the suggestion was that the home crowd isn't really helping and that was contributing to poor home performances and results. I may well have missed it, but I don't remember seeing anyone claiming the manager wasn't at all responsible and that it was just the fault of an impatient home crowd.

See 3 or 4 pages back
That's exactly what was being said
It's not the manager losing the dressing room it's the fans

[Ian Royal]

Given I said it, it really isn't.