CONFIMRED - The final countdown

[rabidbee]

Re sale of the investments... Didn't the club sell the stadium to another Dai company in an effort to reduce losses for FFP (only to be told it didn't count)?

[El Diablo]

So we're embargo free!!!

What ever next

[stealthpapes]

On the face of the accounts there is:

18m of revenue.
7.6m profit on sale of investments (No idea what this was, a company or something)
1.6m profit on sale of players.

(24m) in salaries.
(4.8m) in amortisation This is transfer fees
(8m) intercompany loan provision. Don't know what this is, not much explanation, providing for a bad loan with RFC group?

There is 9m extra costs.

Digging into other pages some of that is:
50k of interest.
65k on intangibles, probably agents fees as part of signing people on frees, or signing on payments.
300k of depreciation on club owned assets.
1.5m on operating lease. That'll be rent for the stadium.
458k for director remuneration
700k impairment (writing off) transfer fees of players released early or sold.
150k on pensions of club employees


We appear too have sold some subsidiary that was worth 3.7m (this would be where that 7m of profit came from up top)


If you add all that up you get to a loss of £12m, there is another 9m in admin costs buried that isn't disclosed. Strange.

Thank you.

So basically, bit on bold quite important?

[Greatwesternline]

Re sale of the investments... Didn't the club sell the stadium to another Dai company in an effort to reduce losses for FFP (only to be told it didn't count)?

You can only sell it once? That sale was accounted for a few years ago now if i recall correctly.

[Greatwesternline]

On the face of the accounts there is:

18m of revenue.
7.6m profit on sale of investments (No idea what this was, a company or something)
1.6m profit on sale of players.

(24m) in salaries.
(4.8m) in amortisation This is transfer fees
(8m) intercompany loan provision. Don't know what this is, not much explanation, providing for a bad loan with RFC group?

There is 9m extra costs.

Digging into other pages some of that is:
50k of interest.
65k on intangibles, probably agents fees as part of signing people on frees, or signing on payments.
300k of depreciation on club owned assets.
1.5m on operating lease. That'll be rent for the stadium.
458k for director remuneration
700k impairment (writing off) transfer fees of players released early or sold.
150k on pensions of club employees


We appear too have sold some subsidiary that was worth 3.7m (this would be where that 7m of profit came from up top)


If you add all that up you get to a loss of £12m, there is another 9m in admin costs buried that isn't disclosed. Strange.

Thank you.

So basically, bit on bold quite important?

Yeh. The accounts while quite helpful, dont explain it all. The intercompany loan provision is a second source of mystery.

[Snowflake Royal]

Re sale of the investments... Didn't the club sell the stadium to another Dai company in an effort to reduce losses for FFP (only to be told it didn't count)?

You can only sell it once? That sale was accounted for a few years ago now if i recall correctly.

I can't remember what it was, and yes the stadium was sold a while back, but we did try to do some creative accounting to move shares/debts/something rather than sell Joao and Puscas the summer before that last Champ season started, like we'd told the FL we would.

[stealthpapes]

On the face of the accounts there is:

18m of revenue.
7.6m profit on sale of investments (No idea what this was, a company or something)
1.6m profit on sale of players.

(24m) in salaries.
(4.8m) in amortisation This is transfer fees
(8m) intercompany loan provision. Don't know what this is, not much explanation, providing for a bad loan with RFC group?

There is 9m extra costs.

Digging into other pages some of that is:
50k of interest.
65k on intangibles, probably agents fees as part of signing people on frees, or signing on payments.
300k of depreciation on club owned assets.
1.5m on operating lease. That'll be rent for the stadium.
458k for director remuneration
700k impairment (writing off) transfer fees of players released early or sold.
150k on pensions of club employees


We appear too have sold some subsidiary that was worth 3.7m (this would be where that 7m of profit came from up top)


If you add all that up you get to a loss of £12m, there is another 9m in admin costs buried that isn't disclosed. Strange.

Thank you.

So basically, bit on bold quite important?

Yeh. The accounts while quite helpful, dont explain it all. The intercompany loan provision is a second source of mystery.

So 17 million of the 21 million loss is ... mysterious ... amazing.

[Crusader Royal]

Re sale of the investments... Didn't the club sell the stadium to another Dai company in an effort to reduce losses for FFP (only to be told it didn't count)?

You can only sell it once? That sale was accounted for a few years ago now if i recall correctly.

I think we were allowed to do it but because Derby really stretched credulity on the sale of their stadium to themselves at a vastly inflated figure it is no longer allowed.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

On the face of the accounts there is:

18m of revenue.
7.6m profit on sale of investments (No idea what this was, a company or something)
1.6m profit on sale of players.

(24m) in salaries.
(4.8m) in amortisation This is transfer fees
(8m) intercompany loan provision. Don't know what this is, not much explanation, providing for a bad loan with RFC group?

There is 9m extra costs.

Digging into other pages some of that is:
50k of interest.
65k on intangibles, probably agents fees as part of signing people on frees, or signing on payments.
300k of depreciation on club owned assets.
1.5m on operating lease. That'll be rent for the stadium.
458k for director remuneration
700k impairment (writing off) transfer fees of players released early or sold.
150k on pensions of club employees


We appear too have sold some subsidiary that was worth 3.7m (this would be where that 7m of profit came from up top)


If you add all that up you get to a loss of £12m, there is another 9m in admin costs buried that isn't disclosed. Strange.

Thank you.

So basically, bit on bold quite important?

Yeh. The accounts while quite helpful, dont explain it all. The intercompany loan provision is a second source of mystery.

so earlier on in this saga - and I can't be bothered to check where, I did some research regarding the finances in League 1 and used Charlton as an analogue and their #s for the last couple of years in League are something like:
Revenues: ~ £10M
Players wages: ~£10M
Admin costs: £10M
so there's a structural lost of £10M per season to run a club of Charlton/Reading's size and infrastructure.

I'm not surprised of that 'Admin' cost is £15M in the championship and covers everything you need to spend to keep a professional club going.

[Crusader Royal]

Thank you.

So basically, bit on bold quite important?

Yeh. The accounts while quite helpful, dont explain it all. The intercompany loan provision is a second source of mystery.

So 17 million of the 21 million loss is ... mysterious ... amazing.

Would an unexplained profit be worse though ?

[Greatwesternline]

Thank you.

So basically, bit on bold quite important?

Yeh. The accounts while quite helpful, dont explain it all. The intercompany loan provision is a second source of mystery.

so earlier on in this saga - and I can't be bothered to check where, I did some research regarding the finances in League 1 and used Charlton as an analogue and their #s for the last couple of years in League are something like:
Revenues: ~ £10M
Players wages: ~£10M
Admin costs: £10M
so there's a structural lost of £10M per season to run a club of Charlton/Reading's size and infrastructure.

I'm not surprised of that 'Admin' cost is £15M in the championship and covers everything you need to spend to keep a professional club going.

Hotel costs.
Travel costs.
Food at the training ground.
Business rates
Energy bills
cost of sale of shop items


the list is endless. Would love to see an RFC trial balance of account codes.

[El Diablo]

Re sale of the investments... Didn't the club sell the stadium to another Dai company in an effort to reduce losses for FFP (only to be told it didn't count)?

You can only sell it once? That sale was accounted for a few years ago now if i recall correctly.

I can't remember what it was, and yes the stadium was sold a while back, but we did try to do some creative accounting to move shares/debts/something rather than sell Joao and Puscas the summer before that last Champ season started, like we'd told the FL we would.

Arborfield? Think that was flogged off

[Forbury Lion]

£20m loss, the 2024 accounts are due next week, if we still have a club next season we`ll probably start on minus points.

Will depend on whether the losses count towards Profit and Sustainability or not and whether the new owner is going to put cash into the club in the form of issuing shares to theirselves rather than a loan, in which case I believe that would be allowable income... As it's all measured over a rolling 3 year period, that might fix things.

[Snowflake Royal]

Thank you.

So basically, bit on bold quite important?

Yeh. The accounts while quite helpful, dont explain it all. The intercompany loan provision is a second source of mystery.

so earlier on in this saga - and I can't be bothered to check where, I did some research regarding the finances in League 1 and used Charlton as an analogue and their #s for the last couple of years in League are something like:
Revenues: ~ £10M
Players wages: ~£10M
Admin costs: £10M
so there's a structural lost of £10M per season to run a club of Charlton/Reading's size and infrastructure.

I'm not surprised of that 'Admin' cost is £15M in the championship and covers everything you need to spend to keep a professional club going.

Charlton maybe aren't a good example.

The Deloitte Football finance report had the average League One loss as £5m in about 2022-23 up from about £1.5m the previous year. But 25% of the loss across the entire division was just Derby.

[Sutekh]

And it’s super Reading, super Reading FC, by far the greatest accounting anomaly the league has ever seen.

[blueroyals]

On the face of the accounts there is:

18m of revenue.
7.6m profit on sale of investments (No idea what this was, a company or something)
1.6m profit on sale of players.

(24m) in salaries.
(4.8m) in amortisation This is transfer fees
(8m) intercompany loan provision. Don't know what this is, not much explanation, providing for a bad loan with RFC group?

There is 9m extra costs.

Digging into other pages some of that is:
50k of interest.
65k on intangibles, probably agents fees as part of signing people on frees, or signing on payments.
300k of depreciation on club owned assets.
1.5m on operating lease. That'll be rent for the stadium.
458k for director remuneration
700k impairment (writing off) transfer fees of players released early or sold.
150k on pensions of club employees


We appear too have sold some subsidiary that was worth 3.7m (this would be where that 7m of profit came from up top)


If you add all that up you get to a loss of £12m, there is another 9m in admin costs buried that isn't disclosed. Strange.

I understand on 2023-04-06 The Reading Football Club Limited disposed of it's entire shareholding in RFC prop co (stadium development) so presumably that is the subsidiary proceeds accounted for?

[stealthpapes]

Yeh. The accounts while quite helpful, dont explain it all. The intercompany loan provision is a second source of mystery.

So 17 million of the 21 million loss is ... mysterious ... amazing.

Would an unexplained profit be worse though ?

you'd still question it, right?

right?

[MartinRdg]

So we're embargo free!!!

What ever next

For a few days anyway....

[Crusader Royal]

So 17 million of the 21 million loss is ... mysterious ... amazing.

Would an unexplained profit be worse though ?

you'd still question it, right?

right?

To be honest I’d probably raise an invoice and make the books balance.

[stealthpapes]

I'm off on my gold plated rocket car, laterz