Long - time for a change?

[Snowball]

Just realised Shane has reached 55 goals for Reading FC, equaling Kevin Doyle's
record and with a lot less minutes on the pitch (about 1,800 less).


114 (83) = 128 x 90 Minutes for 55 Goals Shane Long
145 (17) = 148 x 90 Minutes for 55 Goals Kevin Doyle

Be nice to see him break Doyle's record in the PO Final.

130 (27) = 135 x 90 Minutes for 62 Goals Dave Kitson








Shane



05 (10)
12 (12)
10 (22)
15 (26)
24 (12)
48 (01)

114 (83) = 128 x 90


Kevin
43 (08)
29 (05)
34 (02)
39 (02)

145 (17) = 148 x 90


Dave Kitson

10 (07)
38 (00)
32 (07)
12 (05)
29 (07)
09 (01)

130 (27) = 134.5 x 90

[Snowball]

Let me get this right. We might have done BETTER than Long 25, Hunt 10, 9 Kebe, 11 Harte (+2 for Carlisle) ??

It looks extremely likely that our top-four scorers' total this season
will be second only to the brilliant 05/06 106-point season

Total for four top-scorers

22-19-15-10 = 66 2005-06
25-11-10-09 = 55 2010-11

20-12-12-09 = 53 2009-10
18-13-09-07 = 47 2008-09
19-09-06-05 = 39 2004-05
14-11-09-05 = 39 2003-04
16-09-09-04 = 38 2002-04
14-13-04-04 = 35 2006-07
10-06-06-06 = 28 2007-08

[Barry the bird boggler]

Let me get this right. We might have done BETTER than Long 25, Hunt 10, 9 Kebe, 11 Harte (+2 for Carlisle) ??

It looks extremely likely that our top-four scorers' total this season
will be second only to the brilliant 05/06 106-point season

Total for four top-scorers

22-19-15-10 = 66 2005-06
25-11-10-09 = 55 2010-11

20-12-12-09 = 53 2009-10
18-13-09-07 = 47 2008-09
19-09-06-05 = 39 2004-05
14-11-09-05 = 39 2003-04
16-09-09-04 = 38 2002-04
14-13-04-04 = 35 2006-07
10-06-06-06 = 28 2007-08

What's the best ever season for the top 4 scorers in a season for the club...?

[Platypuss]

It looks extremely likely that our top-four scorers' total this season
will be second only to the brilliant 05/06 106-point season

Which arbitrary cut-off date are you using this time?

[Mr Angry]

I just want to clear something up here; are you saying that, IN YOUR OPINION, a return from your main striker of 1 goal in his first 10 games (a penalty v Palace on 11th September) is acceptable?

Or that 4 goals in 19 games between the start of the season and 11th December, is IN YOUR OPINION, acceptable?

You like stats; had Shane scored in the 1st half of the season at the rate that he scored in the second half, how many goals would have scored?

I'll do the maths for you;

7/8/10 - 11/12/10: 4 goals in 19 games = 0.21 goals per game, or a goal every 4.75 games.

18/12/10 - 17/5/11: 21 goals in 31 games = 0.68 goals per game, or a goal every 1.48 games.

Therefore, had he scored at the same rate in his first 19 games as he scored in the last 31, he would have scored an additional 8 or 9 goals, goals which may have given us automatic promotion.

This thread started when he was in a run of form that, if it had continued throughout the season would have meant he would have scored 9 or 10 goals ALL SEASON. The fact that he more than trebled his strike rate after mid December is fantastic, and shows great character and determination from the lad, but it doesn't make the points being made in November and early December about resting him any less valid.

Every Reading fan is pleased as punch that he turned his season around; its only you that feels the need to somehow bask in the light of reflected glory due to the achievements of others by continually returning to this topic over and over and over again.

Enjoy the play-off final; obviously without you, the team would never have got there.

[Mr Angry]

Let me get this right. We might have done BETTER than Long 25, Hunt 10, 9 Kebe, 11 Harte (+2 for Carlisle) ??

It looks extremely likely that our top-four scorers' total this season
will be second only to the brilliant 05/06 106-point season

Total for four top-scorers

22-19-15-10 = 66 2005-06
25-11-10-09 = 55 2010-11

20-12-12-09 = 53 2009-10
18-13-09-07 = 47 2008-09
19-09-06-05 = 39 2004-05
14-11-09-05 = 39 2003-04
16-09-09-04 = 38 2002-04
14-13-04-04 = 35 2006-07
10-06-06-06 = 28 2007-08

What's the best ever season for the top 4 scorers in a season for the club...?

And since when does scoring goals for different clubs count as goals for Reading??

[ZacNaloen]

I just want to clear something up here; are you saying that, IN YOUR OPINION, a return from your main striker of 1 goal in his first 10 games (a penalty v Palace on 11th September) is acceptable?

Or that 4 goals in 19 games between the start of the season and 11th December, is IN YOUR OPINION, acceptable?

You like stats; had Shane scored in the 1st half of the season at the rate that he scored in the second half, how many goals would have scored?

I'll do the maths for you;

7/8/10 - 11/12/10: 4 goals in 19 games = 0.21 goals per game, or a goal every 4.75 games.

18/12/10 - 17/5/11: 21 goals in 31 games = 0.68 goals per game, or a goal every 1.48 games.

Therefore, had he scored at the same rate in his first 19 games as he scored in the last 31, he would have scored an additional 8 or 9 goals, goals which may have given us automatic promotion.

This thread started when he was in a run of form that, if it had continued throughout the season would have meant he would have scored 9 or 10 goals ALL SEASON. The fact that he more than trebled his strike rate after mid December is fantastic, and shows great character and determination from the lad, but it doesn't make the points being made in November and early December about resting him any less valid.

Every Reading fan is pleased as punch that he turned his season around; its only you that feels the need to somehow bask in the light of reflected glory due to the achievements of others by continually returning to this topic over and over and over again.

Enjoy the play-off final; obviously without you, the team would never have got there.

Interestingly his target for the season was actually 10 goals. Seems the club didn't think he had 24 goals in him this year and I'm sure everyone is glad that he really clicked this year.

[Snowball]

It looks extremely likely that our top-four scorers' total this season
will be second only to the brilliant 05/06 106-point season

Which arbitrary cut-off date are you using this time?

err, a season?

[Platypuss]

It looks extremely likely that our top-four scorers' total this season
will be second only to the brilliant 05/06 106-point season

Which arbitrary cut-off date are you using this time?

err, a season?

Brilliant.

[Snowball]

Let me get this right. We might have done BETTER than Long 25, Hunt 10, 9 Kebe, 11 Harte (+2 for Carlisle) ??

It looks extremely likely that our top-four scorers' total this season
will be second only to the brilliant 05/06 106-point season

Total for four top-scorers

22-19-15-10 = 66 2005-06
25-11-10-09 = 55 2010-11

20-12-12-09 = 53 2009-10
18-13-09-07 = 47 2008-09
19-09-06-05 = 39 2004-05
14-11-09-05 = 39 2003-04
16-09-09-04 = 38 2002-04
14-13-04-04 = 35 2006-07
10-06-06-06 = 28 2007-08

What's the best ever season for the top 4 scorers in a season for the club...?

You tell me, but in RECENT times, obviously the record-breaking season when we had

Ingimarsson & Sonko in their prime, Shorey and Murty
Harper & Sidwell, (Gunnarson, 5 years younger), Convey, Little (Oster, Hunt)
and Doyle, Kitson, Lita up front with cameos from Shane.

[Snowball]

I just want to clear something up here; are you saying that, IN YOUR OPINION, a return from your main striker of 1 goal in his first 10 games (a penalty v Palace on 11th September) is acceptable?

Or that 4 goals in 19 games between the start of the season and 11th December, is IN YOUR OPINION, acceptable?

You like stats; had Shane scored in the 1st half of the season at the rate that he scored in the second half, how many goals would have scored?

I'll do the maths for you;

7/8/10 - 11/12/10: 4 goals in 19 games = 0.21 goals per game, or a goal every 4.75 games.

18/12/10 - 17/5/11: 21 goals in 31 games = 0.68 goals per game, or a goal every 1.48 games.

Therefore, had he scored at the same rate in his first 19 games as he scored in the last 31, he would have scored an additional 8 or 9 goals, goals which may have given us automatic promotion.

This thread started when he was in a run of form that, if it had continued throughout the season would have meant he would have scored 9 or 10 goals ALL SEASON. The fact that he more than trebled his strike rate after mid December is fantastic, and shows great character and determination from the lad, but it doesn't make the points being made in November and early December about resting him any less valid.

Every Reading fan is pleased as punch that he turned his season around; its only you that feels the need to somehow bask in the light of reflected glory due to the achievements of others by continually returning to this topic over and over and over again.

Enjoy the play-off final; obviously without you, the team would never have got there.

Nothing to do with "reflected glory" just a simple statement of facts.

I said he'd come good. He came good.
I said you were knee-jerking. You were knee-jerking.
I said we'd get more goals when we switched to 442. We did.
I said Shane is better playing in a 442. he is.
I said he'd get 20 goals in a Championship season. He has.
I said he'd match Kevin Doyle. He has.
Many said we would be relegated after Gylfi left. They were wrong.

[SLAMMED]

I said he'd match Kevin Doyle. He has.

Not yet

[Snowball]

Interestingly his target for the season was actually 10 goals. Seems the club didn't think he had 24 goals in him this year and I'm sure everyone is glad that he really clicked this year.

Did he say ten goals or "double-figures"?

And, as I said, he was still maturing (he is and will get even better, injuries notwithstanding)
and that when he matured/reached his peak (26.8 years for most strikers, he may be older)
he'd get a lot more goals and be more consistent.

[Snowball]

I said he'd match Kevin Doyle. He has.

Not yet

IMO, he has (at Reading), matching the goals in 20 less games, and playing in a much weaker team.

[Bandini]

I said he'd match Kevin Doyle. He has.

Not yet

IMO, he has (at Reading), matching the goals in 20 less games, and playing in a much weaker team.

His Championship form is the equal of Doyle's at this level (at least, taking into account the relative strength of the teams), but we need to see how he does in the Premiership before determining whether or not he's matched Doyle.

[cmonurz]

And Mr A said that the criticisms levelled at Long before he worked out how to score regularly were valid. And they were.

[Snowball]

I just want to clear something up here; are you saying that, IN YOUR OPINION, a return from your main striker of 1 goal in his first 10 games (a penalty v Palace on 11th September) is acceptable?

How about zero goals in 17 games (Doyle)?

Strikers get barren patches. Some respond best by being rested, Shane responded best
by proving the nay-sayers totally and utterly wrong

Or that 4 goals in 19 games between the start of the season and 11th December, is IN YOUR OPINION, acceptable?

Perfectly. How was Hunt, Church and Uncle Tom Cobley doing at that time?

What matters is the season's stats.

This thread started when he was in a run of form that, if it had continued throughout the season would have meant he would have scored 9 or 10 goals ALL SEASON.

Oh NO, how utterly shocking!! How many first-choice strikers got 10 goals this year?

But it DIDN'T HAPPEN, because he started scoring goals as the side found its feet
after Gylfi left. The manager said it took until game 16 to find a new way of playing,
and lo and behold, we started getting the goals and the points. Who predicted that?

[Wimb]

Snowball has been proved right in his backing for Long and deserves a lot of credit for sticking to his guns even when Shane was really struggling.

The point remains though that Long was struggling and people had a right to question if he was good enough. Just because he's proved people wrong subsequently doesn't mean people weren't right to ask the questions.

As to whether Long is better than Doyle, he's certainly well on his way. But by Snowball's own repeated statements this is his first season leading the line as the main man in a 4-4-2. Kevin Doyle has scored over 20 goals in the Premier League against some top top defences and while Shane Long has also scored against good teams (Villa, Brum, Liverpool etc) it remains to be seen (and hopefully proved) if he can make the step up, where other Championship stars have failed in the past.

I don't see why this thread is open really. Most of the doubters have admitted they were wrong and held their hands up, all that's left seems to be Snowball crowing from the rooftops... I don't really get it.

[Snowball]

I said he'd match Kevin Doyle. He has.

Not yet

IMO, he has (at Reading), matching the goals in 20 less games, and playing in a much weaker team.[/quote]

His Championship form is the equal of Doyle's at this level (at least, taking into account the relative strength of the teams), but we need to see how he does in the Premiership before determining whether or not he's matched Doyle.[/quote]

Because Doyle has been prolific in the Premiership?

Long had 5 Premiership goals in 1600 minutes (5 or 6 more goals v Premiership opposition) He was 18/19 when he played there) 320 minutes per goal

Doyle has had 33 Premiership goals in 4 seasons (13-6-9-5), 10,577 minutes: 320 minutes per goal.


And Long is at least twice the player he was then.

[Snowball]

Bandini said:

His Championship form is the equal of Doyle's at this level (at least, taking into account the relative strength of the teams), but we need to see how he does in the Premiership before determining whether or not he's matched Doyle.


Well, Shane got 5 Premiership goals (in 2006-7 and 2007-8), at the same minutes per goal as Doyle is overall, and he's WAY better as a player now.

I'd expect him to get the 10+ Premiership goals (in a season) I said he would get