Back from the game - Swansea

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Maguire
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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Maguire » 27 Dec 2012 11:21

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Hoop Blah It's a shame he's taken so long to work out the best way of approaching the majority of games in this division though.

We've never had the quality to go toe to toe for 90 minutes in this division and the head start we've given other relegation candidates whilst figuring this out is going to cost us.

I've never wanted McDermott sacked, but some of his costly errors probably amount to him getting the push in most other circumstances.


I can imagine the furore on here if we'd gone into the season playing negative, spoiling football from the start. It's only hindsight that allows us to suggest we should have done so now.


Fully agreed. I was one of the ones saying we have to play 442 after the Spurs game, as that is our strength.


Yep, I'm sure i've bemoaned the lack of attacking threat in a 4-5-1 earlier this season as well.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Jano » 27 Dec 2012 11:30

Ki Sung-Yueng was playing in the position Guthrie needs to play for us. Michu was clearly a class above in the first half, our defenders struggled to cope with him. Leigertwood needs to stop attempting to pass the ball. Win it. Leave it for someone, anyone else. He is unable to pass at all. Pogrebnyak needs support. He won almost everything that was lobbed up to him and was trying to flick it on, but there were no runners at all. Kebe and McAnuff look devoid of confidence and unwilling to take on anyone anymore. Gunter got better as the game went on, although their left back seemed to run through several challenges on numerous occasions which was worrying. The chest back to no one in particular was also a definite highlight.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by AirRaidSiren » 27 Dec 2012 11:40

Royal91 McDermott just can't get this balance between attack and defence. The simple reason WE ARE SHIT. The first 11 as a whole are just not good enough.

McDermott still managed to get it wrong. Guthrie is not an attacking mid (Deep lying play maker).

Federici- I've been his biggest critic and I don't like the guy but he was awesome today.

Gunter/Cummings Good champ players and that's it.

Harte- Too slow we need two new full backs. All they do is chip it down the channels. (maybe because the CM's are not showing for them).

McAnuff and L,wood again SHIT. I HOPE TO GOD THEY ARE NOT WITH US NEXT YEAR.

Jimmy never wants to take on a man and is probably the most frustrating player in the world.

Karacan. Awesome badly missed him. Maybe were that shit but it looks like he's improved technically.

Pearce. Awesome McDermott is a oxf*rd moron for not playing him. Controlled and organised the defence and showed some PASSION. AZ Give him what he wants. He might win a second Championship title.

Guthrie. Wasn't in the first half. 2nd half showed some grit, fight, neat passing and solid crossing. (Anyone who disagrees can piss off)

Pog. He shows some bite in tackles and willingness to get the ball. Unfortunately hes too slow. Problem is hes not a TARGET man. Banging balls into his head will NEVER work.

Alf. Should be starting. Solid finisher, pretty nippy and great movement.

Our problems are the full backs.
Off the ball movement (Never create space for each other)
Crossing is just shit all the time.



This!

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Winnershroyal » 27 Dec 2012 12:01

24050in the crowd?

Lots of seats free everywhere in the ground.

Enjoyed not losing.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by loyalroyal4life » 27 Dec 2012 12:19

can someone clarify was shorey injured or dropped? Mcderm is a moron if it is the latter our 2 best players shorey and tabb this season weren't playing!!!

Drop Harte and Ledge asap


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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by pea » 27 Dec 2012 12:28

loyalroyal4life can someone clarify was shorey injured or dropped? Mcderm is a moron if it is the latter our 2 best players shorey and tabb this season weren't playing!!!

Drop Harte and Ledge asap


What did Harte do wrong then?

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Mr.T10 » 27 Dec 2012 12:39

pea
loyalroyal4life can someone clarify was shorey injured or dropped? Mcderm is a moron if it is the latter our 2 best players shorey and tabb this season weren't playing!!!

Drop Harte and Ledge asap


What did Harte do wrong then?


Because he did no wrong he is undroppable (to you)? Shorey brings more to the game and is twice the player.

Harte can't defend and McDerm tries to compensate his lack of any pace by dropping McAnuff even deeper because we can't leave him on his own against a winger.

I am also wondering why even Harte was brought in. Maybe Harte had a few words saying "why am I not playing? You said you will give the players who got us up a chance to play"... Probably worked for Harte unlike Guthrie.

When will we play our best team...

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by The Beardy Man » 27 Dec 2012 12:42

Those saying we improved substantially after Alf and HRK came on. Had it occurred this coincided with Swansea's somewhat mystifying decision to settle for a point in the last 20 minutes.

Pog worked hard, and when the ball actually reached him, was reasonably good at doing something with it (that horrible miscontrol when nearly through aside).

Alf did look very bright again, had a little more pace to chase about against a somewhat more tired defence. Not convinced he would have done as well as the Pog with the sort of service he received in the first hour though.

Re McAnuff and HRK. What did HRK do that McAnuff did not (apart from not being McAnuff). Can anyone name a moment where he ran at the fullback causing problems or had a chance at goal. He did exactly the same things. Worked hard, tracked back and supported his fullback.

This was very much a performance of solid 6's and 7's from everyone. Nobody stand out bad or good. Giving anybody very high or low marks from that game just displays your own prejudices to my mind.

A little more quality on the ball in Jan and we may start to ask some attacking questions of our own.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by mambo3 » 27 Dec 2012 12:54

pea
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West Stand Man 2. I hope you are in the minority. If I had to watch a team playing keep ball without penetrating the opposition half for over 10 mins every week I'd soon give up. Our harum scarum style does, at least, entertain.


Typically english attitude to football, hence why our national team have always been and always will be third rate.


Can't believe anyone would want to watch Swansea play. Its ok keeping the ball on the ground and passing if you're any good at it but I thought they were tedious, unimaginative and boring, personally. Only good opportunities came from hopeful crosses into the box that we pushed into their paths and the time Michu tried his trickery against Mariappa but gave away a foul. None of their passing led to anything worthwhile. The passing between Guthrie and ALF when he came on was far better than anything they did.

LOL@ anyone criticising the manager in this game.

Feds is back playing at his best,
Harte has looked comfortable since he came back in and we've not conceded with him on the pitch,
Pearce is in the side regardless of his contract situation and putting in great performances,
Gunter has come in and done OK,
Karacan in a five man midfield has put our defence under so much less pressure,
Guthrie has been given a game when some managers would have had him playing with the youth team,
Kebe and McAnuff didn't get much luck but on paper they should be our best wingers. McDermott made the early substitution to take off McAnuff and give HRK a go without him being any more effective.
Pogrebnyak should be our best option for 4-5-1 but let himself down today, still McDermott brough on Alfie and turned the game, almost getting the winner on several ocassions.

He put what is technically our best side out and then took off the players that weren't performing. One of those substitutes almost won us the game. He's turned a horrendous defence into one that almost kept a clean sheet against the Champions and looked comfortable in this game, in the space of a week.

Obviously it wasn't perfect and three points would have been nice but we're in the Premier League and we've come a long way in two weeks. It wasn't so long ago that we had 10 players out and Obita and Samuel as our only attacking options on the bench. Now McCleary and Shorey can't even make the squad and we're matching decent Premier League sides. We've got ourselves to a place where a few decent additions in January COULD make a massive difference and keep us up and that is important.


Obita and Sammuel being our only attacking options??? Good enough to play for England at different age groups though. MCD knows how good they are and is protecting them and will use them when he thinks necessary.


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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by If you still hate Futcher » 27 Dec 2012 13:10

I really enjoyed the game yesterday - a good, tactical battle where we were well set out, had a game plan and everyone stuck to it really well.



I don't agree that we were bad in the 1st half - we just sat back and made sure they didn't have any room to pass around us. Swansea may have had 70% or so of the possession but about 80% of that was with their centre-backs as we just let them have the ball but cut out the easy pass to their playmakers. Basically we played as if we were the away team, but gradually as the game went on Swansea were getting more and more frustrated and we came into the game more and more. As we did BMcD made his subs which helped us get on the front foot more and more.

For me MOTM was a toss up between Pearce (organised the defence well) and Pog, who deserves a lot of credit for a selfless performance up front on his own and was probably subbed as much because of getting a yellow card as for being tired. It's a pity he had a heavy touch when running in toward their goal in the 1st half but that was the only opportunity he had.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Woodcote Royal » 27 Dec 2012 13:26

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Trouble is, in the first half especially, we were too keen to sit back and watch them pass.



No point in chasing after the ball in their half if all they are going to do is pass between their back 4.

It wasn't that we were keen to watch them do it out of any sort of respect. It was simply, what's the point? They are doing it because they are trying to tire out our attackers. We weren't out there to play their game. Just hold shape and if they want to win the game they have to come at us at some point. At which point everytime they did suddenly they got shit in possession because we were all over them. This meant we had more energy in the second half which and could really go at them.

We'd probably have won that game if Tabb was playing in Leigertwoods place, I reckon. He was bloody awful in possession.


Couldn't agree more which is why I don't understand people insisting the first half was poor.

Swansea arrived having gotten the better of us in recent times largely through being the better side but also thanks to some good fortune....................the element of the game that appears to have deserted us entirely this season :|

On this occasion, however, Brian had a game plan from which other more fortunate clubs and managers would have emerged with 3 points but ended up with merely the one we were so outrageously deprived of against Man City.

He stuck with the 4-5-1 that also saw us leave empty handed from Chelsea when 3pts would have been a fairer distribution of the spoils and it was the "dire" first half that made the "better" second possible.

Yes, having set out to frustrate a very good passing side we could have wasted needless energy (eventually used to better effect in the latter stages as we almost snatched victory from tiring opponents) to pursue their defense as they searched for a way forward and thus creating the gaps required for them to play their normal game :idea:

Mercifully, Brian stuck with his game plan :P and long before the interval the normally cultured swans were resorting to long shots and the hoofs so despised by much of own fan base.

I heard someone near us berating Kebe for not "getting in the game" or "putting his foot in" yet all I could see was our right midfielder acting as a second right back in order to keep the opposition where they could do little harm to us. At one point I saw Karacan realise he was about to cross the half way line and change tack to ensure it didn't happen. Given the discipline required throughout the team over the last 2 games, does anyone still believe McDermott has lost the dressing room?

Had we been Man City, Chelsea or Newcastle one of Alf's efforts would given us a desperately needed victory and, ultimately, it could be bad luck, unfair treatment that determines our destiny but this was a decent performance.

All managers have their favorites but Brian is better than most in this respect. However, I completely agree that Leigertwood is extremely fortunate to still be starting whilst Tabb's omission, frankly, beggars belief.

Furthermore while we are struggling to find a decent right back it's seems we have 2 very decent options on the other side. I believe McDermott put Leigertwood in front of the back four against City.............................why didn't he give the job to Harte and let Shorey keep his place? Harte's experience could be invaluable in a 5 man midfield whilst Shorey has been too good to leave on the bench.

All I want to see is our strongest side and like many others I can't see why this would currently included Leigertwood who appears out of form/his depth.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Hoop Blah » 27 Dec 2012 13:28

Maguire
Hoop Blah It's a shame he's taken so long to work out the best way of approaching the majority of games in this division though.

We've never had the quality to go toe to toe for 90 minutes in this division and the head start we've given other relegation candidates whilst figuring this out is going to cost us.

I've never wanted McDermott sacked, but some of his costly errors probably amount to him getting the push in most other circumstances.


I can imagine the furore on here if we'd gone into the season playing negative, spoiling football from the start. It's only hindsight that allows us to suggest we should have done so now.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one was quite pleased that it seemed we might've been starting with a more realistic 4-5-1 formation (or at least the capability to play it when the situation dictated) after our summer business and a couple of early selections by the manager.

No hindsight here as I've always been a fan of 5 in the middle and don't see it as negative.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by pea » 27 Dec 2012 13:45

mambo3 Obita and Sammuel being our only attacking options??? Good enough to play for England at different age groups though. MCD knows how good they are and is protecting them and will use them when he thinks necessary.


what's your point?

Mr.T10 Because he did no wrong he is undroppable (to you)? Shorey brings more to the game and is twice the player.

Harte can't defend and McDerm tries to compensate his lack of any pace by dropping McAnuff even deeper because we can't leave him on his own against a winger.


No, but in the game before this one I saw Harte defending very well, his lack of pace wasn't an issue and then Shorey came on, didn't challenge for a header in our penalty area and we conceded and lost the game...

Again, Harte played against Dyer yesterday, one of the pacier wingers in this league and I didn't see Dyer do anything all game to be honest...

Obviously Shorey is better going forward and is generally more composed in posession but Harte has done exactly what has been asked of him and as long as McDermott wants our left back to play a more limited, defensive minded role then I don't see why he shouldn't be playing.


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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Tony Le Mesmer » 27 Dec 2012 13:45

I want to put out a big shout for Ian Harte.

Not that he was amazing yesterday (solid 7/10) but for an old timer who had no pace at 25 let alone 35, its incredible that he's dropped down to league 1 level and managed to get all the way back to playing Premier League football so late in his career. He's been slagged off by a lot of people who simply cant see what he brings to the team. I watched him specifically for a fair bit yesterday and at times he could hardly run at all, you need a lot of experince and class to play at this level to make up for that, which is something he has bundles of. Somone just said he cant defend. :lol: He's spent 5mins off the pitch in the last 2 games and look what happened? Shorey may tick more boxes, but somehow we always look better as a team with Harte playing. An absolute Model Pro, which is something you couldnt say about 1 or 2 of our current players who are bizzarly idolised by some sections of our support.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by If you still hate Futcher » 27 Dec 2012 13:54

^^

Have to agree with that - was worried we were going to get a replay of the playoff final with him up against Dyer again but he never really got a chance to have a go at Harte.

I'm not so sure that Laudrup's Swansea are as good with the ball as the Rodger's version though - from the start of the 2nd half it looked like their Brian had told his players to play it more direct and there were a couple of quite aimless punts from their fullbacks toward Michu and Moore (I think it was him) up front

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by LoyalRoyal22 » 27 Dec 2012 15:09

loyalroyal4life can someone clarify was shorey injured or dropped? Mcderm is a moron if it is the latter our 2 best players shorey and tabb this season weren't playing!!!

Drop Harte and Ledge asap



How many goals or assists does Tabb have? And Shorey was accountable for 2 goals against Arsenal

I am not defending Ledge, as he has been awful this season, but you cant just put Tabb in because he works hard

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by Mike Hunt » 27 Dec 2012 15:29

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ZacNaloen You can't win games if you knacker yourself out in the first half either :lol:



You cannot win games at this level unless you buy players of premiership quality and looking round our line up it was very hard to spot them. Karacan ? Guthrie ?
(both of them have hardly played so far tbf) So we have decided to go defensive and cling on in the hope of sneaking a winner. ...hardly the "Reading Way" and this simply will not keep us in this league or have we given up on that already.and the big signing of supposed prem quality fluffed his touch when set up beatifully by a swansea defender (but then their big signing did the same when set up by Gunter)

It is so frustrating that we are throwing away this season..


It won us the league last year...

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by ZacNaloen » 27 Dec 2012 15:30

Hoop Blah
ZacNaloen
Trouble is, in the first half especially, we were too keen to sit back and watch them pass.



No point in chasing after the ball in their half if all they are going to do is pass between their back 4..


Having just watched the last 25 minutes of Stoke do exactly that against Liverpool and harass them into plenty of mistakes in the last third I can't agree with that.



25 minutes of another team playing liverpool vs half a season watching Reading try and fail at that tactic. Hmm.....

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by SydenhamRoyal » 27 Dec 2012 15:34

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Guthrie. Wasn't in the first half. 2nd half showed some grit, fight, neat passing and solid crossing. (Anyone who disagrees can piss off)

.



I disagree, he was also in the first half. What I liked was that when he lost the ball by god he tried to win it back - and often did. Unlike Ledge who then stood there wondering how he'd managed to oxf*rd up a 5 yard pass.

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Re: Back from the game - Swansea

by LoyalRoyal22 » 27 Dec 2012 15:35

SydenhamRoyal
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Guthrie. Wasn't in the first half. 2nd half showed some grit, fight, neat passing and solid crossing. (Anyone who disagrees can piss off)

.



I disagree, he was also in the first half. What I liked was that when he lost the ball by god he tried to win it back - and often did. Unlike Ledge who then stood there wondering how he'd managed to oxf*rd up a 5 yard pass.



Agreed

Royal91 will be alone on here if people that disagree with his poor comments have to `piss off`

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