McDermott Hits Back

[Maguire]

Didn't someone else say on another thread here that in January we:

- went for a football camp in Portugal, had a kick about with Sporting and bought one of their contract dispute players
- played Crawley in the cup, saw Akpan and bought him
- played Sheffield Utd in the next round, saw one of their players and bought him

Not very clever scouting really was it.

I agree the Gilfi thing is rubbish. We did not stand a cat in hells chance and all it did was make us look momentarily unlucky but over time has made us look stupid. Same with Ince.

Do you really beleive that was the scouting we did?

If people repeat it often enough it might become funny eventually.

[melonhead]

I take the point about improvements Brenders but I just think the talent base he had at his disposal when he took over is superior to the squad he's leaving behind.

Squad for the Barnsley game just after Brian got the job full-time.

Federici, Mills, Griffin, Ingimarsson, Bertrand, McAnuff, Karacan (Howard, 84), Sigurdsson, Gunnarsson, Long, Church (Bignall, 74). Subs not used: Rasiak, Thorvaldsson, Kebe, Hamer, Khizanishvili.

Brian's final squad.

Taylor, Harte, Mariappa, Pearce, Kelly, McAnuff , Leigertwood (Guthrie, 81), Robson-Kanu, Akpan (Blackman, 56), Hunt (McCleary, 56), Le Fondre.
Subs not used: Morrison, Shorey, Karacan, Henley.

Do not see the giant leap forward there, I really don't.

Like I said, I'm not having a go at Brian, far from it. As I said he did an absolutely fantastic 1 of a kind job with the tools he did have, I just think he's left a squad that needs a massive amount of work if it wants to be competitive at Premier League level.

It's just like Palace under Dowie, Hull under Brown, Watford under Boothroyd, Derby under Davies. They all had successful seasons but they didn't grow under those managers.

If you look at Pardew's reign it's undeniable that we'd taken giant strides forward. Under Brian I think we've had success but not moved forward significantly from where Coppell ended his final season.

im not asking for giant leaps though, just improvement, and i think as a team, despite the loss of our two best players we still got better

i respect your right to not think that though

[Esteban]

I'm with Wimb. In footballing terms we were better off 3 months into Brian's reign than we were when he left. The standard of our play has regressed, as has the quality of our squad. Not necessarily his fault given the budget constraints he was dealing with...but for me too often he went searching for short-term plugs rather than long-term solutions.

Can't fault him in terms of results and success, but he hasn't really left a huge platform on which Adkins can build, which is why the 'Adkins Diet' may take time to evolve.

I think there's a good reason to that though. Firstly, the lack of money he had and secondly, when he took over, it was potentially the only opportunity he might ever get to manage a club.

He wanted results, regardless of how we attained them on the pitch and did what he had to do to get them. Partly because of the lack of investment and partly, I think, due to his own concerns that he wouldn't last very long if results weren't good, this conspired to us being a very efficient and effective side. However, 'plugging gaps', as you quite rightly point out, meant that we didn't have a squad of real quality, or a playing style that was strong enough at PL level. The short term fixes he applied with such great success were, with the benefit of hindsight, never going to give us the long term strategy we needed to survive in the PL. I feel sorry for McDermott, because he justified a means to an end; unfortunately for him, the end was gaining promotion. We weren't in a position to make the most of it, we moved too slowly and, coupled with the mistakes that Brian made on the pitch (understandable given his managerial experience), it ultimately cost him his job.

I hope that Adkins gets the time and investment he needs to implement his ideas and get the players he wants. In my opinion, it'll take him two summers to do that. Patience is required if we are going to maximize the next shot we get at PL football. Whenever that may be.

[melonhead]

Or, given they're both saying the same thing, they both are.

Anton: "We could have done more"
Brian: "I couldn't have done any more"

So, unless Anton's admitting it is his fault, then they aren't both saying the same thing.

Both said more money should have been spent in the summer, both said money was available in January that we didn't use. Brian just seems to think that it was okay for him to only recommend Ince and Sig, whereas Anton felt he should have been a little more active.

Hardly the polarisation of opinions that some seem to think.

aspas too. and theyre just the ones we know abot, pretty sure other players would have been monitored and enquired about too

[melonhead]

The Sig thing is bollocks we may as well have bid for Bale. He was never going to leave one of the countries top clubs and a chance of CL football to join a team going down. If that money was available we should have gone for more realistic targets. Instead we got two div one players and an injury prone Portugese player who no outside Lisban had ever heard of. We signed our death warrents in January.

the deal was pretty much done.but was dependant on spurs buying a player that fell through

[Cobi]

McDermott said today that he will look at some Reading players but not 5-6, "that wont happen".

In January he said if he was in the Championship he'd snap up Simon Church... Leeds will be pleased.

So, Harte, Church and one other I reckon.

[Cobi]

The Sig thing is bollocks we may as well have bid for Bale. He was never going to leave one of the countries top clubs and a chance of CL football to join a team going down. If that money was available we should have gone for more realistic targets. Instead we got two div one players and an injury prone Portugese player who no outside Lisban had ever heard of. We signed our death warrents in January.

the deal was pretty much done.but was dependant on spurs buying a player that fell through

A fee wasn't even agreed with Spurs

[melonhead]

They've both said they agreed on the summer budget, so BM can't not be happy with that. BM also said he got everyone he wanted in the summer.

He's also said that he although he got everyone he wanted, and spent all his budget, he was working on 2 or 3 others as the window shut.

Not sure how he was bringing them in if he'd already spent his budget though.

got everyone i wanted, and happy with what ive got is just manager media speak for , the window is closed, and i dont want tp negatively affect confidence in my squad by saying theyre shit, and i wanted to replace them.

[melonhead]

The Sig thing is bollocks we may as well have bid for Bale. He was never going to leave one of the countries top clubs and a chance of CL football to join a team going down. If that money was available we should have gone for more realistic targets. Instead we got two div one players and an injury prone Portugese player who no outside Lisban had ever heard of. We signed our death warrents in January.

the deal was pretty much done.but was dependant on spurs buying a player that fell through

A fee wasn't even agreed with Spurs

no, but both sides were getting closer the longer itwent. thats how negotiations work

[winchester_royal]

I'm with Wimb. In footballing terms we were better off 3 months into Brian's reign than we were when he left. The standard of our play has regressed, as has the quality of our squad. Not necessarily his fault given the budget constraints he was dealing with...but for me too often he went searching for short-term plugs rather than long-term solutions.

Can't fault him in terms of results and success, but he hasn't really left a huge platform on which Adkins can build, which is why the 'Adkins Diet' may take time to evolve.

I think there's a good reason to that though. Firstly, the lack of money he had and secondly, when he took over, it was potentially the only opportunity he might ever get to manage a club.

He wanted results, regardless of how we attained them on the pitch and did what he had to do to get them. Partly because of the lack of investment and partly, I think, due to his own concerns that he wouldn't last very long if results weren't good, this conspired to us being a very efficient and effective side. However, 'plugging gaps', as you quite rightly point out, meant that we didn't have a squad of real quality, or a playing style that was strong enough at PL level. The short term fixes he applied with such great success were, with the benefit of hindsight, never going to give us the long term strategy we needed to survive in the PL. I feel sorry for McDermott, because he justified a means to an end; unfortunately for him, the end was gaining promotion. We weren't in a position to make the most of it, we moved too slowly and, coupled with the mistakes that Brian made on the pitch (understandable given his managerial experience), it ultimately cost him his job.

I hope that Adkins gets the time and investment he needs to implement his ideas and get the players he wants. In my opinion, it'll take him two summers to do that. Patience is required if we are going to maximize the next shot we get at PL football. Whenever that may be.

I don't disagree. He put together a squad to get us promoted, you can't blame him for that. Ultimately it left is a little short this season though and just like he took the plaudits for last season he does therefore have to shoulder the blame for the failings of this season.

Great at what he does, putting together a team of players and getting them playing at close to their maximum every week, be he's not a visionary thinker that's going to 'modernise' the club..which is probably what we need to become an established PL club in the future. Is Adkins that man? Only time will tell, but I like the noises coming from in and around the club right now.

Brian will I'm sure continue to do well with limited squads, but that doesn't mean we've made the wrong decision in parting ways.

[melonhead]

never had a chance to do well with any other kind of squad
youve no idea how his management would work in that situation

[Hoop Blah]

They've both said they agreed on the summer budget, so BM can't not be happy with that. BM also said he got everyone he wanted in the summer.

He's also said that he although he got everyone he wanted, and spent all his budget, he was working on 2 or 3 others as the window shut.

Not sure how he was bringing them in if he'd already spent his budget though.

got everyone i wanted, and happy with what ive got is just manager media speak for , the window is closed, and i dont want tp negatively affect confidence in my squad by saying theyre shit, and i wanted to replace them.

To an extent yes, but when he said the same about getting who he wanted, spending all his budget and then he was still working on a few other targets in the same sentence in his post sacking interview on Radio Berks then I think it becomes slightly different.

Like I've said many times, the soundbites they all come out with are far too bland, measured and over analysed for what are basically throw away comments that we read into them meanings that never exist. With the media twisting them as they have in this artical it's just not worth giving them much thought.

[winchester_royal]

Maybe you're right, but now he's gone tbh I don't really care.

[melonhead]

i care, but not enough

[No Fixed Abode]

Yep - he spent his budget on too many poor quality players, instead of bringing in less players with better quality. Simple.

[Wimb]

I just don't look at the club's situation when he walked in and the situation he's left it in and think we're in a significantly better position as a football club

?

??

When he arrived we were a Championship club in a phase of rebuilding with a few players left over from the PL era and some promising younger players who had the talent to get into the play-offs. He's ultimately left us as a Championship club who are about to go through a major rebuild and will have a couple of PL quality players and some promising younger players, with the play-offs a probable aim.

I don't see what's quite so outrageous about that notion. I can see why you might disagree and I'd probably agree we're slightly better off if only for the parachute payments but I can't say I looked at that final team McDermott put out against Villa and say I thought WOW how far we've come since Brian took over. Fair play if you disagree.

[Wimb]

I take the point about improvements Brenders but I just think the talent base he had at his disposal when he took over is superior to the squad he's leaving behind.

Squad for the Barnsley game just after Brian got the job full-time.

Federici, Mills, Griffin, Ingimarsson, Bertrand, McAnuff, Karacan (Howard, 84), Sigurdsson, Gunnarsson, Long, Church (Bignall, 74). Subs not used: Rasiak, Thorvaldsson, Kebe, Hamer, Khizanishvili.

Brian's final squad.

Taylor, Harte, Mariappa, Pearce, Kelly, McAnuff , Leigertwood (Guthrie, 81), Robson-Kanu, Akpan (Blackman, 56), Hunt (McCleary, 56), Le Fondre.
Subs not used: Morrison, Shorey, Karacan, Henley.

Do not see the giant leap forward there, I really don't.

Like I said, I'm not having a go at Brian, far from it. As I said he did an absolutely fantastic 1 of a kind job with the tools he did have, I just think he's left a squad that needs a massive amount of work if it wants to be competitive at Premier League level.

It's just like Palace under Dowie, Hull under Brown, Watford under Boothroyd, Derby under Davies. They all had successful seasons but they didn't grow under those managers.

If you look at Pardew's reign it's undeniable that we'd taken giant strides forward. Under Brian I think we've had success but not moved forward significantly from where Coppell ended his final season.

im not asking for giant leaps though, just improvement, and i think as a team, despite the loss of our two best players we still got better

i respect your right to not think that though

Thats fair Brenders and I agree with you to a large extent. I'm as happy as anyone with the previous 2 1/2 seasons under Brian, they were awesome at times none moreso than last year which ranks up with my favourite ever season. He was a good manager who brought unexpected success to the football club it's just a shame that under his watch we haven't moved up to another level as you might say with Swansea, Norwich, West Brom etc. As others have said, I don't really think that's his fault it was a lot to do with what money he was given etc.

Anyway it's done now and we'll never know. Just have to thank him for a great 2 1/2 years and put this season to the back of our minds.

[RoyalinBracknell]

I'm with Wimb. In footballing terms we were better off 3 months into Brian's reign than we were when he left. The standard of our play has regressed, as has the quality of our squad. Not necessarily his fault given the budget constraints he was dealing with...but for me too often he went searching for short-term plugs rather than long-term solutions.

Can't fault him in terms of results and success, but he hasn't really left a huge platform on which Adkins can build, which is why the 'Adkins Diet' may take time to evolve.

I agree that the best football we played during McDermott's reign was in his first few months. But then it's only with hindsight that you really appreciate the quality of that squad - we had 2 players who might well be in Champions League squads in the next few sesaons (1 of whom has already played in the final), a striker who's now doing well at West Brom and generally a pretty decent level throughout the rest of the team. Looking back really Rodgers could/should have made quite a bit more of that team. Replacing the likes of Bertrand, Gylfi and Long was always going to be a difficult task, particularly when the money going out of the club when buying players was nowhere near the same level as that which came into into when selling players. McDermott might not have replaced those players with like-for-like quality but that was always going to be an uphill struggle and he continued building successful Championship teams which seems a success to me (although I take the point about wanting to lay a long-term foundation - although you could argue that the likes of Pearce, Robson-Kanu, possibly Karacan have all continued to grow under him and got an increased profile in the first team.) I think the great shame is that we couldn't get another season with that same 2009/10 squad, perhaps adding a couple of players - maybe under TSI we'd have had a better chance? Ultimately McDermott realised 4-5-1 wasn't really as effective and brought in Ledge to allow us to play 4-4-2. It wasn't as pretty but but with a limited budget in terms of buying players I think he did a great job. As soon as McDermott got the chance with an increased budget to add a few players in January 2012 he got us promoted within 3 months of that.

In terms of a few other points, I think it gets harder to take a club forward the further up the league structure you go; there's always the danger you'll reach a glass ceiling which it's hard to go past. I think off the field Reading are in a better position now than they were a few years ago. Had McDermott not kept us in the league in 2010/not done a reasonably successful job in 2011 then perhaps the takeover would never have happened. I think a certain point also depends at the point in which a manager leaves a club. Had McDermott left for the Wolves job last season then quite possily fans would have thought that he'd left us with a great platform, in with a chance of getting promoted. Now that he's left us on the verge of relegation that obviously doesn't really apply. (But can you really judge a manager in terms of taking a club forward by simply comparing his last season to his first season? If so you could argue that Coppell didn't really take us forward considering we'd just missed out in the play-offs when he arrived and did so again when he left. But I wouldn't agree with that considering the success we had for 2 seasons. And in any case we were near the bottom of the Championship when McDermott was appointed and near the bottom of the Premier League when he left.) But I think we had 2 and a half great seasons under him and in no way has he taken us backwards in my view. I'd argue his 2 and a half Championship seasons were relatively better than all but one of Coppell's Championship seasons. It does seem slightly ironic that in January he was criticised for not bringing in players for the here-and-now and now it's being doubted if he laid a long-term platform. Who's to say that the likes of Mariappa, Akpan, Le Fondre and McCleary won't all still be here in a couple of years and been successful in taking us to the next level?

[SPARTA]

Yep - he spent his budget on too many poor quality players, instead of bringing in less players with better quality. Simple.

But at the same time knew we needed as many, if not more, because of how average the squad was.

[Lower West]

[quote="RoyalinBracknel] Replacing the likes of Bertrand[/quote]

Loan players are an increasing distortion within the leagues.

Look at Watford with their Italian team of youngsters that in a few years will be playing Serie A. Short term yes. Long term no.