BFTG Birmingham

[paddy20]

Constant progress until we became champions.

You need to just calm down my friend and temper your expectations a tad. McDermott is not a miracle worker. He needs time to make improvements and he cannot succeed alone. He is important in our success but it is not going to happen without a lot of other things being right at the club as well.

Can you honestly say there has been any improvement at all since he came? Yes managers need time but you should at least start to see things moving in the right direction. We are miles worse than when Clarke was here.

Think its time for a change right at the top - Howe??? He doesn't care about us supporters. I have been a loyal fan for over 50 years and I wrote him a letter about a suggestion I had and he couldn't even bother to reply. Maybe I wasn't worth the stamp!

[Jagermesiter1871]

Sooooooooo....Dixey

Who should we realistically be targeting (given that Brian is obviously on your hanging list)?

He is on my hanging list because he clearly learns nothing from previous mistakes in this division, despite being sacked by 2 sides that needed a different approach to winning games, not the same f-----g dross every week and the fingers crossed that it will work more often than not. The problem is with the McDermott fan club, all members assume that "the messiah" will once again bring success to a team that lacks everything needed to succeed in this division. And please don't start with the "not his team" bollocks, he has more than enough players to pick from and still picks players that are inconsistent, overweight, out of form, incapable of passing the ball 10 yards or actually tackle an opponent. Stay in your little "McDermott and his chocolate factory" bubble for as long as you like but the bloke is tactically inept and does not deserve to be our Manager.
And in answer to your question..... Pearson, Moyes, Sherwood, Holloway, Hoddle, Neville, Rodgers, Coppell and at least 20 others who would do a better job!

Neville? Now I know you're a WUM.

Interesting that some of those haven't had any success whatsoever, let alone in the championship.

[3points]

I've really had enough of these performances. For three years we've watched the same "football". Pass it out from the back and ponderously try to play it through the midfield. But it isn't working. I could be an opposition manager and beat Reading. Teams set up with 5 in midfield, press high up the pitch and wait for us to make a mistake and gift them a goal, or score from a set piece.

Yesterday was screaming out for more direct style of football. If a team presses high up the pitch then you have to by-pass the midfield. We had a target man and a second striker yesterday. Kermogant wins his fair share of headers. Just get it forward more quickly and stop giving Norwood the ball every time. Get the opposition playing on the turn, and stop them from getting 10 men behind the ball and make us play through them. Even top Prem teams struggle to break down well organised teams that defend en masses so it is no surprise we can't do it either. In our good spell earlier this season, we attacked with pace, directness and positivity. We do not actually want to have more than 50% possession in a game.

Yesterday was truly dire

[Platypuss]

Good transfers my arse, expect little improvement next season if we still have to play so many foreign mercenary's, no heart, no passion, no hope.

In what way are McShane and Quinn not foreign?

[paddy20]

Good transfers my arse, expect little improvement next season if we still have to play so many foreign mercenary's, no heart, no passion, no hope.

In what way are McShane and Quinn not foreign?

I'm Irish & I'm not foreign

[3points]

With Donaldson playing left back for half the game (why would you play Lafferty as your main striker ahead of him), we really needed McCleary on the right earlier. I would have made a double substitution at half time and brought him on with Vydra and gone to a more traditional 4-4-2 from the start of the second half. When Brian took off Gunter it looked an OK substitution but Rowett quickly countered it by bringing on a more defensive left midfielder which meant McCleary ended up being more necessary as a right back rather than a raiding wing back, which I think was the original intention with the substitution

[Hendo]

worse team performance ever- what has happened to the soul and passion for the club?

LOL.

There is a fair amount of over reaction on this thread, but I guess that's to be expected when some people have only known success.

Waiting for the plethora of responses along the lines of 'I was there in the old division 4 blah blah blah' well if some of you were (I wasn't by the way just FTR) it would be a good time to look back and actually remember that. Or even go back to the late 90s (which is when I started going FTR) before we got out of the old division 2 that was some pretty poor football on display.

Yes, Saturday was bad. Yes the team didn't play well. They have been pretty poor for the majority of the season, that's true. But these things take time, just be oxf*rd patient. People have been brainwashed by modern football, your deadline days, your managers lasting less than a season, your social medias and the need for instant glory. True greatness takes time to build, has to be hard forght. It's not instant.

Some people have such knee-jerk reactions to football it's crazy. Sack him, sack 75% of the team blah blah blah. Come on, get real. If you don't want to come back and watch Reading based on the last couple of seasons, fine, I'm not the one to tell you otherwise but there are a hell of a lot of clubs that are in a worse position than us. You want instant success, play FIFA, Football Manager or watch one of the big boys it's up to you.

Yes, I'm frustrated we aren't winning the games we should and we aren't playing to our potential, but I wouldn't be supporting Reading if that's what I didn't love. Being very average for a long while made our previous success taste even sweeter. I go into every game thinking we can win, otherwise what's the point of even going? Some people claim that the players have no passion or desire to play for the club, well the same can quite easily be said for some fans, they don't have the passion or desire to stay with the team through everything.

[Platypuss]

Good transfers my arse, expect little improvement next season if we still have to play so many foreign mercenary's, no heart, no passion, no hope.

In what way are McShane and Quinn not foreign?

I'm Irish & I'm not foreign

I'm sure that's nice for you. How about answering the question?

[MR. CYNICAL]

With Donaldson playing left back for half the game (why would you play Lafferty as your main striker ahead of him), we really needed McCleary on the right earlier. I would have made a double substitution at half time and brought him on with Vydra and gone to a more traditional 4-4-2 from the start of the second half. When Brian took off Gunter it looked an OK substitution but Rowett quickly countered it by bringing on a more defensive left midfielder which meant McCleary ended up being more necessary as a right back rather than a raiding wing back, which I think was the original intention with the substitution

Sorry, that last bit doesn't make sense.

[Snowball136]

Sorry. but the idea that McShane and Quinn are foreign is plain daft.

Gunter too?

They are from the British Isles, and that's good enough for me, but then I'm not a racist

[Extended-Phenotype]

The problem with this team has been the same since McD left. The same problem that neither Adkins or Clarke were able to fix with more time than McD. The lack of consistency is just proving impossible to plan for. A winning team playing well one minute is righlty fielded the next but falls apart like they are a set of completely different players.

Hopefully with a bit of smart investment this summer we can get a spine of consistent performers to keep the team playing from one game to the next, where the variable form of one or two doesn't cripple the side like it does when 5-6 players inexplicabley turn up shite on the day.

At worst, we can say McD is struggling as much as his predecessors right now. But he has yet been afforded their priveleddge of a summer transfer window to mould the team. Imo, only once he has been able to do that, can we judge him fairly. I certainly don't want to see us dump a possibly good and loyal manager prematurely. I know shit results arent much fun for us but let's not become one of clubs that installs a revolving door on the managers office.

[Platypuss]

Sorry. but the idea that McShane and Quinn are foreign is plain daft.

Explain.

[Angry Shed Sex]

Good transfers my arse, expect little improvement next season if we still have to play so many foreign mercenary's, no heart, no passion, no hope.

In what way are McShane and Quinn not foreign?

I'm Irish & I'm not foreign

If you're Irish living in England you're foreign.

If you're born and bred in England and call yourself Irish you're a twat.

[Snowball]

Sorry. but the idea that McShane and Quinn are foreign is plain daft.

Explain.

Not interested in the technical definition but the idea that when I go
to Dublin or Cork I am "in a foreign country" is frankly ridiculous.

Ditto Scotland or Wales.

Newcastle is more foreign than any part of ireland

[tmesis]

these things take time, just be oxf*rd patient. People have been brainwashed by modern football, your deadline days, your managers lasting less than a season, your social medias and the need for instant glory. True greatness takes time to build, has to be hard forght. It's not instant.

The problem is we've been a boring uncreative team for three years now, and things just seem to be getting worse. My challenge to anyone would be to name one thing this team is good at, because I genuinely can't think of a single strength it has.


Yes, there are those who've been brought up with modern football media and believe sacking the manager is the answer to any dip in form, but there are a lot of people not in the bracket who are very disillusioned too.


Personally I like McDermott, and I hope he succeeds, but I can't fathom why, as a club, we seem to hire managers from a shortlist of one, without even bothering to find out who else might want the job. His appointment just smacked of a decision made to "right the wrong" of his sacking three years ago.

[tmesis]

Sorry. but the idea that McShane and Quinn are foreign is plain daft.

Explain.

Not interested in the technical definition but the idea that when I go
to Dublin or Cork I am "in a foreign country" is frankly ridiculous.

Ditto Scotland or Wales.

Newcastle is more foreign than any part of ireland

How would you define foreign?

Ireland isn't British, isn't part of the UK, and has it's own government, a different currency, you need to show your passport to get in...

Culturally there are big similarities, and if you go there is doesn't look different to places in the UK, but that doesn't stop it actually being a foreign country.

[Top Flight]

worse team performance ever- what has happened to the soul and passion for the club?

LOL.

There is a fair amount of over reaction on this thread, but I guess that's to be expected when some people have only known success.

Waiting for the plethora of responses along the lines of 'I was there in the old division 4 blah blah blah' well if some of you were (I wasn't by the way just FTR) it would be a good time to look back and actually remember that. Or even go back to the late 90s (which is when I started going FTR) before we got out of the old division 2 that was some pretty poor football on display.

Yes, Saturday was bad. Yes the team didn't play well. They have been pretty poor for the majority of the season, that's true. But these things take time, just be oxf*rd patient. People have been brainwashed by modern football, your deadline days, your managers lasting less than a season, your social medias and the need for instant glory. True greatness takes time to build, has to be hard forght. It's not instant.

Some people have such knee-jerk reactions to football it's crazy. Sack him, sack 75% of the team blah blah blah. Come on, get real. If you don't want to come back and watch Reading based on the last couple of seasons, fine, I'm not the one to tell you otherwise but there are a hell of a lot of clubs that are in a worse position than us. You want instant success, play FIFA, Football Manager or watch one of the big boys it's up to you.

Yes, I'm frustrated we aren't winning the games we should and we aren't playing to our potential, but I wouldn't be supporting Reading if that's what I didn't love. Being very average for a long while made our previous success taste even sweeter. I go into every game thinking we can win, otherwise what's the point of even going? Some people claim that the players have no passion or desire to play for the club, well the same can quite easily be said for some fans, they don't have the passion or desire to stay with the team through everything.

Great post Hendo. I agree with you fully.

Supporters don't seem to want to support anymore. 95% of the time the football is sh*t. We put up with it for those special seasons. Which for a club like Reading won't come around too often.
Being a supporter is all about enduring the misery. Then enjoying fleeting success every once in a while whenever it comes around.

We just got to re-prioritise what are the reasons we go to football.

1) The social (the sense of community and belonging)
2) The match day experience and overall having a laugh
3) The result
4) The entertainment value of the football.

That's the way around that it should be. But Reading FC in particular and football in general are failing with the first two which has led to 3 and 4 becoming most important for a lot of people that go to watch football.

They are failing with point 1 because football is far too expensive and players are way overpaid. So that sense of community and belonging and relationship between fans and club is breaking down. They don't care enough about fans and fans feel ripped off. So you wanna overcharge us then you better play Brazilian football and fricking win every week else we're gonna slaughter you on social media. There is a rising feeling of anger among fans because we are getting ripped off and we know it.

The match day experience has always been cr*p at Mad House because of that dumb lion, no decent places to get a drink, parking being a total nightmare and pathetic atmosphere in the ground most of the time. The club has to look at all these factors.

But one thing I will praise the club on is giving the under 7s a free ticket. That was a great idea and it certainly got my kid in to Reading because I wouldn't have brought him without that deal in place. Now he has rejected Barcelona and become a massive Reading fan.

[RoyalBlue]

Absolutely gutted for those paying for a day ticket today.

I've come to accept I wasn't getting any more value for my money this year.

The players should hang their heads in shame. But they won't. Expecting much of the same till May.

Fwiw my player ratings:

Al Habsi 5: little to do but that free kick palm to their player was shocking, should have got much more on it
Gunter 5: some good runs down the RW in the first half but should have marked their player for the palmed free kick
Obita 7: IMO the only player to take any credit today
McShane 6: didn't do much wrong but stood off too much
Cooper 6: See McShane
Norwood 5: love him but for all the possession didn't make any passes worthwhile
Williams 4: I'm a fan but he was just clueless today
Quinn 5: See Norwood
Piazon 5: missed a great opportunity in that first half
Cox 5: work horse. That is all
Yann 4: no notable contribution moving forward

Subs: can't be arsed to write anymore, I'm off for an round of sympathy shots

Final thoughts: what the f*ck is going to happen in the summer. WHY WONT THE BOARD SAY ANYTHING

I would up McShane by one point but then mark both him and Cooper down two points for the horrific manner in which they granted Donaldson the absolute freedom of the box for the opening goal.

And I can't believe that people still seem to think it's unfair to judge McDermott! These are not useless players. He should be achieving far more with them than he is. All of the values that he espouses i.e. passion, spirit, hardwork and teamwork fell dramatically short yesterday. So he can't even instill them on a consistent basis.

Did Warnock face an easier situation when he took over at Rotherham? Who has done more to turn the performances of their squads around?

McDermott has the cheek to bang on about how well we've done at home in 2016! We've ground out some draws and grabbed some wins against teams in the lower part of the table. That's not great.

And overall, as Ady Williams pointed out after the game, when it comes to The Championship we have not managed to beat a team higher than 16th in the table since McDermott took over.

Finally, people talk about how things will be better next year when he brings in the youngsters etc. So why the f*ck is he not starting that process now? Why is he persisting with players where either the club or they won't commit to them being with us next year? Why wait till next season to start working on the future? We should be doing whatever we can now to ensure we get a strong start next season. And if he's sticking with the current players because he would rather push for wins and entertain the fans, then he is clearly failing!

[Top Flight]

these things take time, just be oxf*rd patient. People have been brainwashed by modern football, your deadline days, your managers lasting less than a season, your social medias and the need for instant glory. True greatness takes time to build, has to be hard forght. It's not instant.

The problem is we've been a boring uncreative team for three years now, and things just seem to be getting worse. My challenge to anyone would be to name one thing this team is good at, because I genuinely can't think of a single strength it has.


Yes, there are those who've been brought up with modern football media and believe sacking the manager is the answer to any dip in form, but there are a lot of people not in the bracket who are very disillusioned too.


Personally I like McDermott, and I hope he succeeds, but I can't fathom why, as a club, we seem to hire managers from a shortlist of one, without even bothering to find out who else might want the job. His appointment just smacked of a decision made to "right the wrong" of his sacking three years ago.

If it was wrong to sack him three years ago then it's good that the club made things right again. Because the mistakes that have been made during the past three years have been at board level and not manager level.

Steve Coppell hit the nail on the head when he was providing punditry in the Reading-Palace FA Cup game a few weeks ago. He said that the club had lost it's way due to the change in ownership. He said that success has to start and come from the top. It doesn't matter who the manager is, if thinks aren't right at the club then it will be impossible to succeed. Reading has to find the Reading way again. The Reading way means success built over a long period of time. The money isn't there for the club to spend £30 million one summer and instantly build a team capable of challenging for promotion. The club will have to nurture success. Encouraging knee jerk decision making a la Tim Dellor is not going to help take the club forward.

We need to be patient and supportive. For a couple of seasons, forget about expecting promotion. Let's just go for the laugh. Let's just back the boys and make some noise and encourage them and hope for promotion rather than expect it.

[RoyalBlue]

Thought the ref was pretty decent and didn't see any glaring mistakes. Maybe a bit harsh towards us or a bit lenient towards them in a couple of places but nothing major.
.

He didn't lose us the game, although we might have kicked on had he awarded the penalty when McShane was shoved over. However, three bad mistakes:

1) Allowed their player to get away with moving his shaving foam line without booking him.
2) Saw Vydra kicked from behind as he broke forward, Vydra was clearly hurt by the foul yet the ref somehow didn't see fit to award a free kick (and possibly book the offender).
3) Clear corner to us, he was better positioned to award it but gave a goalkick, only to get corrected by our players and the lino.