BFTG Bristol

[Snowflake Royal]

What games were those?

So just averagely decent defending, or the defending for the loanee period
last season, and we would be at least mid-table

Fine margins. Take out the 1-4 v Fulham (10 men) and we'd be -3 GD over 10 games,
so clearly not massively outplayed anywhere.

Obviously confidence must now be slipping badly, but a few special saves from the keeper, a CB having
a purple patch, Puscas coming good (just ONE of these) and we'd be getting a lot more points per game

The problem is WHY we're conceding those goals. IMO, it's not individual player error, it's coaching, set up and strategy.

So you won't get a defender purple patch because the set up won't allow it. The goals will keep flowing until the strategy changes. And the keeper won't save you, because the chances are so easy from that degree of space. Any decent strike will be all but unsaveable.

Beginning of Stam's second season, we got in trouble down to individual errors, it then got worse because of management strategy. Clement's last season was a shit squad with players playing badly. This is all about set up from the coaching team.

[Millsy]

It's this belief that O'Shea must be the second coming just because years ago he played for Utd that really pisses me off


He was a shit past it defender with no coaching experience before he joined us. He was a shit defender whilst he played for us. And now he appears to be a shit coach too.

Exactly this. To think that being a good defender years ago means you’re a good defensive coach NOW is baffling.

I’ve never really understood players just getting some coaching qualification and walking into coaching positions as high up as the Championship. Arguably coaching is one of the most important roles at a club, even more than manager. Get a good experienced defending coach who really knows how to organise a defence. A good experienced fitness coach who can get the best out of their stamina and strength, a good keeping coach who can really teach a keeper how to command his area and the defence and a good attacking coach who can really teach midfield and attack understanding and cohesiveness and how to attack and a manager becomes almost a spare part who just chooses and manages players and and directs a formation and overall strategy. We place so much emphasis on getting in the right manager and the right players btu are quite happy for Mr Nobody to walk away with a shiny certificate then be in charge of organising our defence/attack/whatever. It makes no sense. Perhaps it’s the manager’s job to get those coaches, I don’t know.

Surely coaches are the ones we should be scouting and enticing over to us. Those with experience. Those who have spent years through the leagues directing groups of players to achieve great things as a unit. If it was just a case of getting a certificate that would suggest that there is one bog standard way to coach players and once you have the bit of paper you are exactly the same as everyone else. Total balls.

It can’t be Gomes’ job to spend day in day out on the training field teaching the defenders how to mark players, strikers and midfielders how to link up, not be offside and produce silky passing and through balls. Etc etc.

Who is doing these things at the club?

[windermereROYAL]

Amazing how both Swansea and Bristol goals were early and near identical. free headers 6 yards out with crosses from the right. after that just like last week the home team rarely threatened.
poor mindset poor coaching, while Clements team used to be asleep at the start of the 2nd half this lot start the bloody game like it.

[Millsy]

Amazing how both Swansea and Bristol goals were early and near identical. free headers 6 yards out with crosses from the right. after that just like last week the home team rarely threatened.
poor mindset poor coaching, while Clements team used to be asleep at the start of the 2nd half this lot start the bloody game like it.

Yeah other teams probably watch videos of our games and think “oh look just put chances in early in the game they won’t mark you, get a goal and watch them sink”

We on the other hand probably don’t watch videos of our games at all.

[Denver Royal]

It's this belief that O'Shea must be the second coming just because years ago he played for Utd that really pisses me off


He was a shit past it defender with no coaching experience before he joined us.

Exactly this.

Exactly nothing. When we signed O'Shea, who said he was the '2nd coming'? Name them. The signing was very unpopular, roundly criticized, and universally opposed in here as a waste of (high) wages, and with the expectation that he wouldn't play much anyway (which, he didn't). So maybe you are pissed off for no reason, Ian.
Since he was still a full time player at that time, his coaching experience back then would obv have been limited or non-existent.

[leon]

Amazing how both Swansea and Bristol goals were early and near identical. free headers 6 yards out with crosses from the right. after that just like last week the home team rarely threatened.
poor mindset poor coaching, while Clements team used to be asleep at the start of the 2nd half this lot start the bloody game like it.

Yeah other teams probably watch videos of our games and think “oh look just put chances in early in the game they won’t mark you, get a goal and watch them sink”

We on the other hand probably don’t watch videos of our games at all.

I think they watch videos of the chuckle brothers

[Millsy]

It's this belief that O'Shea must be the second coming just because years ago he played for Utd that really pisses me off


He was a shit past it defender with no coaching experience before he joined us. He was a shit defender whilst he played for us. And now he appears to be a shit coach too.

Exactly this.

Exactly nothing. When we signed O'Shea, who said he was the '2nd coming'? Name them. The signing was very unpopular and universally opposed in here.

We are mostly on the same page then. Hurrah.

The responses were to Snowball’s assumption that “it makes so little sense” to have a shit defence if O’Shea is coach. He even went on to suggest that it could be because a Portuguese chap is outranking him and shutting down him down. That’s your name for you.

Oh, and another small name: Reading football club. They signed him. I’d be disappointed if they have committed to paying him £1000s per week if they thought he was tosh.

I’m glad HNA universally thinks he’s probably crap though. In that case I wonder why on earth we are having a go at Gomes!????? If it is universally accepted we have a poor defensive coach, and it is bleedingly obvious our issues largely stem from the goals we leak, and that is due to shambolic defensive organisation then surely the general clamour here should be O’Shea out, get an experienced defensive coach in. It’s not though.

[Denver Royal]

Exactly this.

Exactly nothing. When we signed O'Shea, who said he was the '2nd coming'? Name them. The signing was very unpopular and universally opposed in here.

We are mostly on the same page then. Hurrah.

Hurrah
Wwhen O'Shea was announced as a coach, I don't recall much euphoria?
I do recall people putting 2 and 2 together when we signed him as a player and envisaging a coaching role opening up at the end of it.

[Denver Royal]

I suppose you're right in the sense that O'Shea should or will come in for more criticism given our defensive frailties. Although, I'm unsure of the exact extent of his responsibility and duties at this point.
Anyway, in short, I don't recall OShea being hailed as the 2nd coming as either a player or a coach. Which would make sense, because he was at the very end (and worst?) stage of his career as a player, and is now in his first gig as a coach learning on the job.

[Snowflake Royal]

Exactly nothing. When we signed O'Shea, who said he was the '2nd coming'? Name them. The signing was very unpopular and universally opposed in here.

We are mostly on the same page then. Hurrah.

Hurrah
Wwhen O'Shea was announced as a coach, I don't recall much euphoria?
I do recall people putting 2 and 2 together when we signed him as a player and envisaging a coaching role opening up at the end of it.

I remember saying he was a shit signing and wasn't a good coaching option and getting slated for it. Vaguely remember you being one the ones doing it too, although that could just be based on how often you have a sly dig at me about pretty much anything.

Yeah, let's get in a guy who'd been in four relegation battles in a row with pretty terrible defences and no coaching experience. Bound to sort out our defence.

[leon]

We are mostly on the same page then. Hurrah.

Hurrah
Wwhen O'Shea was announced as a coach, I don't recall much euphoria?
I do recall people putting 2 and 2 together when we signed him as a player and envisaging a coaching role opening up at the end of it.

I remember saying he was a shit signing and wasn't a good coaching option and getting slated for it. Vaguely remember you being one the ones doing it too, although that could just be based on how often you have a sly dig at me about pretty much anything.

Yeah, let's get in a guy who'd been in four relegation battles in a row with pretty terrible defences and no coaching experience. Bound to sort out our defence.

I don’t remember that at all.

I think we were all pretty bemused by it. However some people said at least give him a chance.

[Millsy]

Ok so we all agree. How cute.

So why oh why do we think HNA is going nuts at Gomes when our biggest problem by a mile is our shambolic defensive organisation? Letting in early soft goals are screwing up games and making it very hard for Gomes to do his job properly.

Emergency appointment of an EXPERIENCED defence specialist needed, to aid Gomes who in other areas seems to be doing well?

Mad Dog saved Parj from the clutches of a sacking iirc and more importantly turned things around.

[Snowball]

Amazing how both Swansea and Bristol goals were early and near identical. free headers 6 yards out with crosses from the right. after that just like last week the home team rarely threatened.
poor mindset poor coaching, while Clements team used to be asleep at the start of the 2nd half this lot start the bloody game like it.

agreed, my point made earlier,

[URZZZZ]

Ok so we all agree. How cute.

So why oh why do we think HNA is going nuts at Gomes when our biggest problem by a mile is our shambolic defensive organisation? Letting in early soft goals are screwing up games and making it very hard for Gomes to do his job properly.

Emergency appointment of an EXPERIENCED defence specialist needed, to aid Gomes who in other areas seems to be doing well?

Mad Dog saved Parj from the clutches of a sacking iirc and more importantly turned things around.

Because part of the reason for the "shambolic defensive organisation" is down to Gomes himself. Why oh why do our fullbacks play so far forward? A good manager would identify the problem and alter his ways. But we haven't. And it's ridiculous

It's so naive in blaming O'Shea considering we've been a disaster in the defensive areas for years now. But hey, whatever suits people's agendas

And as for his treatment of Richards, it's nothing short of a disgrace. He was playing so well, dropped for no reason for a bang average fullback and has now played poorly his last few games. Whilst on the other side of defence, Yiadom is untouchable when quite frankly he can't defend very well and he can't attack

[Snowflake Royal]

Ok so we all agree. How cute.

So why oh why do we think HNA is going nuts at Gomes when our biggest problem by a mile is our shambolic defensive organisation? Letting in early soft goals are screwing up games and making it very hard for Gomes to do his job properly.

Emergency appointment of an EXPERIENCED defence specialist needed, to aid Gomes who in other areas seems to be doing well?

Mad Dog saved Parj from the clutches of a sacking iirc and more importantly turned things around.

Gomes appointed him
We don't know the breakdown of responsibility
The problems are wider than just defence
Manager must order change if there is a problem
Manager is ultimately responsible.

[Snowball]

Most here will talk about good centre-backs, while still playing
"passing on their experience", talking to other players etc

When Stam came, the main element was his PLAYING history. He was hardly
a top manager.

Just because OShea played on for a few years too many, doesn't mean that
in his day he wasn't a very good centre-back, and OF COURSE he has had
masses of experience.

That, with his badges, ought to make him at least a competent defensive coach.

But I'm not sure if we know hie IS a defensive coach at Reading, or where
he is in the pecking order.

What is VERY hard to understand is how very decent centre backs seem
all of a sudden to have forgotten how to defend.

That to me suggests confusion in coaching.

======

The other problem, the wing-backs being too forward-minded, I pointed out
during the pre-season friendlies. We were leaving big gaps then, and we still are now.


=====

The regular free headers things though, as far as I can remember, is new to this season

[Snowball]

Ok so we all agree. How cute.

So why oh why do we think HNA is going nuts at Gomes when our biggest problem by a mile is our shambolic defensive organisation? Letting in early soft goals are screwing up games and making it very hard for Gomes to do his job properly.

Emergency appointment of an EXPERIENCED defence specialist needed, to aid Gomes who in other areas seems to be doing well?

Mad Dog saved Parj from the clutches of a sacking iirc and more importantly turned things around.

Because part of the reason for the "shambolic defensive organisation" is down to Gomes himself. Why oh why do our fullbacks play so far forward? A good manager would identify the problem and alter his ways. But we haven't. And it's ridiculous

It's so naive in blaming O'Shea considering we've been a disaster in the defensive areas for years now. But hey, whatever suits people's agendas

And as for his treatment of Richards, it's nothing short of a disgrace. He was playing so well, dropped for no reason for a bang average fullback and has now played poorly his last few games. Whilst on the other side of defence, Yiadom is untouchable when quite frankly he can't defend very well and he can't attack

I for one am NOT blaming OShea. I don't even know he IS the (or "a") defensive coach.

We just presume that because that's where he played.

I am thinking, instead, that the defensive coaches don't all seem
to be singing from the same hymn sheet

[Millsy]

Ok so we all agree. How cute.

So why oh why do we think HNA is going nuts at Gomes when our biggest problem by a mile is our shambolic defensive organisation? Letting in early soft goals are screwing up games and making it very hard for Gomes to do his job properly.

Emergency appointment of an EXPERIENCED defence specialist needed, to aid Gomes who in other areas seems to be doing well?

Mad Dog saved Parj from the clutches of a sacking iirc and more importantly turned things around.

Because part of the reason for the "shambolic defensive organisation" is down to Gomes himself. Why oh why do our fullbacks play so far forward? A good manager would identify the problem and alter his ways. But we haven't. And it's ridiculous

It's so naive in blaming O'Shea considering we've been a disaster in the defensive areas for years now. But hey, whatever suits people's agendas

And as for his treatment of Richards, it's nothing short of a disgrace. He was playing so well, dropped for no reason for a bang average fullback and has now played poorly his last few games. Whilst on the other side of defence, Yiadom is untouchable when quite frankly he can't defend very well and he can't attack

Agree about Richards.

Btw I have no agenda. Am genuinely torn. Don't know what is best or what I want.

Having wingbacks push up doesn't stop our three professional centre backs marking men appropriately though. Look at the early goals, is that what is happening? Or are our central defenders just standing there marking empty space?

Yeah O'Shea may not be to blame as its been years but by that token Gomes can't be blamed either then can he? And the point is he was brought in the sort out or defence. It hasn't worked. So whilst it's not his fault we are in this position he's obviously not the answer. And if you're not part of the answer in this case especially you are part of the problem, taking up an important role and doing it badly.

Yiadom has generally been great except for some poor moments. At least that's what I think. Clearly he is dividing fans' opinion so it's not that obvious.

[Snowball]

Because part of the reason for the "shambolic defensive organisation" is down to Gomes himself. Why oh why do our fullbacks play so far forward? A good manager would identify the problem and alter his ways. But we haven't. And it's ridiculous

Hold on a minute.

We have had half-a-dozen goals against this season that are 90% the fault of the 2 or 3 CBs

There is no excuse for giving away regular free headers in the middle of the goal.

No matter how good the cross (or bad the fullback play) the CBs should be making the
play difficult for the forwards.

But may of the goals are BAD goals, like Bristol, Swansea, Hull.

I very much doubt that Gomes is instructing players NOT to defend. It's probable that
he leaves that coaching to the defensive coaches. One or more of them is not doing his job

[Millsy]

Ok so we don't know O'Shea's role. We don't know who brought him in. Whatever his role, an area we need desperate improvement in is our defensive organisation.

As for O'Shea automatically being a great defensive coach just because he was physically good at defending I'm sorry Snowball I respectfully disagree.