Pauno in or out poll mk2

[Millsy]

Ok so so far we have

1) Puscas for Swift

2) Have 3 across the back

3) Swap TDB/Laurent

4) Put more crosses in (except we're not a winger/crossing side and still manage to utilise Carroll well enough)

See where I'm going with this?

Wildly different suggestions, so no clear consensus of what the obvious error was.
?

tbf, much as we like to think we know everything as fans about how to fix things we don't. Hence different opinions etc. I think a lot of the point is we CAN see things aren't working at times, and very little gets done, bar minor tweaks to change it. I don't know what 'plan b's' etc they work on in training, but it does seem time and again we just don't react to a team getting on top of us possession wise. Our reaction seems to just drop deeper and deeper. And we did seem to come out with a mentality to hold on to what we had a 1-0, let alone 2-0

True. Pauno has a flaw I totally agree. He is just not able to react to games as they are unfolding. Watches endless videos before games, does his homework, does ok. But mid-game he can't do it. To me that's a flaw we've known about for ages. Sometimes it's very obvious what he should have done (eg try 442 when losing a must-win game), but sometimes it's just not to US - but yes he's the top man, he should sort it out.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Most managers tend to not move away from their principles or style of play. It's a very common reason for sacking a manager for not adapting their style when things are going poorly. Let's be fair, the target for the club this season has been to survive ever since we suffered a points deduction. Funnily enough, we were actually in the Top 6 (briefly) when we were 2-0 up against Blackpool and I think, when that game finished, we were 8th or 9th. If a points deduction wasn't forthcoming and we had our players regularly available, we should have been pushing for the play offs again with the squad we have, alas, neither of those have happened and surviving is very much the priority.

At this time, Pauno is doing that whilst enduring a very limited squad, with very little room for manoeuvring in the transfer market. If he was sacked tomorrow, I do think an incoming manager would be able to pick up a couple of results within the first half a dozen games, but I do not think we would end the season significantly better under any new manager than what we will with Pauno. We are surviving, it's not comfortable, but we are surviving. If we finish 21st because Peterborough (or whoever) have a goal difference that is one worse than ours, I'll take that.

Pauno won't change his style, as frustrating as that can be on occasions, he will probably feel it is successful given the realistic ambitions of the club this season. A couple of statements from the club were given regarding the transfer embargo and then the points deduction where the hierarchy said they were confident of building a competitive squad (after the transfer embargo) and were confident of a successful season (points deduction). We have better players than the table might suggest, which is why I am confident that we will survive, but our situation is dire both on and off the field. Keeping our heads above water for this season (and probably next, although I'd expect a lower mid table finish providing we do not suffer a points deduction) should be exactly what we aim to achieve and everyone from Chairman to fans should be satisfied with that during this period. It's tough to accept for every fan, but that's our reality.

[Hound]

Think I'm in a smallish minority that doesn't think we are actually in a particularly bad position off the field. Owners willing to invest, new training ground, ground itself is holding up, points deduction done with a fairly generous settlement for next year. Academy production line in good working order. Most of the big earners off the books soon.

We ain't going anywhere fast and really do need to not go down. But stay up this year, and as long as we are sensible enough preseason and stay up again the following year, we should be good to go. I think a lot of the doom and gloom is overdone.

When we were really in the shit was the Stam through to Clement days. Terrible squad full of long term expensive contracts. Really did fear for us badly if we'd gone that year, and we couldn't have argued we didn't deserve to go down that year if it had happened.

[Lower West]

If a points deduction wasn't forthcoming and we had our players regularly available, we should have been pushing for the play offs again with the squad we have, alas, neither of those have happened and surviving is very much the priority.

Attempting to break the "rules" gave us the squad to compete. The owners took a punt and failed. The club is now floundering and appears rudderless. What ever happens this year. Next year is going to be more of the same.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Think I'm in a smallish minority that doesn't think we are actually in a particularly bad position off the field. Owners willing to invest, new training ground, ground itself is holding up, points deduction done with a fairly generous settlement for next year. Academy production line in good working order. Most of the big earners off the books soon.

We ain't going anywhere fast and really do need to not go down. But stay up this year, and as long as we are sensible enough preseason and stay up again the following year, we should be good to go. I think a lot of the doom and gloom is overdone.

When we were really in the shit was the Stam through to Clement days. Terrible squad full of long term expensive contracts. Really did fear for us badly if we'd gone that year, and we couldn't have argued we didn't deserve to go down that year if it had happened.

In my comment, I was more referring to short-term off the field issues, with us still needing to get rid of high earners and with a big turnover in the squad as well as the business plan going on for another 18 months or so with still a threat of a further deduction. In 18 months time, we "should" be far better off than we are now and have been during the Stam/Clement era, which I agree was wholly worse than where we are now.

Owners willing to invest can swing on both sides of the pendulum. Yes, fantastic with our state of the art training facilities and planned expansion and development of the ground once we are able to do so that they are happy to fund, but obviously a major part of the reason why we are landed in the situation we are today. Not to mention our owners' previously failed takeover of Hull City didn't happen because they failed a fit and proper persons test and even when they agreed to take over ourselves, it was met with "caution" from the Premier League as well.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

If a points deduction wasn't forthcoming and we had our players regularly available, we should have been pushing for the play offs again with the squad we have, alas, neither of those have happened and surviving is very much the priority.

Attempting to break the "rules" gave us the squad to compete. The owners took a punt and failed. The club is now floundering and appears rudderless. What ever happens this year. Next year is going to be more of the same.

I meant that if we didn't have a points deduction and injuries with the squad we have this season then I'd have been expecting a play off push. What held us back last year was a lack of a squad. Yes, we've lost a talented Olise but we've actually improved our squad I think, on paper as least anyway. But of course our situation is different.

[Snowflake Royal]

Ok so so far we have

1) Puscas for Swift

2) Have 3 across the back

3) Swap TDB/Laurent

4) Put more crosses in (except we're not a winger/crossing side and still manage to utilise Carroll well enough)

See where I'm going with this?

Wildly different suggestions, so no clear consensus of what the obvious error was.

The elephant in the room is the players themselves have to take responsibility for folding. For sitting outside the penalty box, for shit passes to the opposition, losing the ball, inviting pressure. I don't see an obvious glaring tactical error from Pauno we can all agree on.

Now this isn't necessarily a strong defence for Pauno because it is his job to make sure the players have a plan so as not to fall into this situation of camping outside their box, but players are human and it happens. As much a reflection on them as it is Pauno.

Where are the plaudits for two goals against one of the best defences in the league? Be fair in your criticisms guys, Derby are a better side, several places above us without deductions. That's my point. Would we call for a sacking if it was 0-0?

More like many options.

Yes people would be calling for a sacking if it was 0-0. If you hadn’t noticed people have been calling for a sacking for months.

0-0 is much less bad than giving up a 2-0 lead with 84 minutes gone.

It's not hard Millsy. You're only defending it to be controversial.

You're right it's not hard - there is MORE bedwetting now because of those 5mins of play. How does giving up a 2-0 lead mean a man has to lose his job? 0-0 would have been different. Don't let two in, but totally toothless at home. I'll tell you exactly what it is - people are just knee-jerking because they're butthurt at losing a 2-0 lead and their feelings felt hurt in those 5mins. Boohoo.

---

And here you go again Ian being a bit of a tit, trying to get all psychoanalytical as to why I say what I say. Stop it, it's fvcking pathetic. Make logical counter-points if you can, don't hide behind character analysis just because you can't.

I never call you out for being a sheep, or worse for your cowardly play-it-safe stance of "in but only because he'll be gone anyway". Don't fear HNA. Like you don't with Ejaria/Moore - oh but hang on are you just wanting to be controversial? Easy with small things innit eh? I don't because I trust you actually believe those things, that's fine.

Truth is I just don't know, but will boldly call out his shit fitness excuse when I hear it, and fans' bedwetting when I see it. Give me a run of humiliating defeats though and I'll be leading the revolt like I was last season when everyone seemed to be jizzing over the honeymoon games.

Task - keep us up in ridiculously difficult circumstances. Progress - without a deduction 9 points off relegation/12 off playoffs. Even with deduction still 3pts off relegation but with roughly midtable form this season. So sack him for what exactly? For not being 7th again? I also think he actually has a lot FOR him and he may a rough diamond. Like when I argued for Brenda stay - look at him now.

But no... perhaps I'm just getting kicks out of being controversial because I really enjoy wasting my time debating with bedwetters.

It's hard to have an intelligent debate with a guy who ignores any intelligent points he doesn’t like, picks a minority position and backs it in the face of everything to be different. Especially one who doesn’t understand what zonal marking is and tries to blame it for every defensive mistake.

95% of your posts are obvious wind up.

[Millsy]

More like many options.

Yes people would be calling for a sacking if it was 0-0. If you hadn’t noticed people have been calling for a sacking for months.

0-0 is much less bad than giving up a 2-0 lead with 84 minutes gone.

It's not hard Millsy. You're only defending it to be controversial.

You're right it's not hard - there is MORE bedwetting now because of those 5mins of play. How does giving up a 2-0 lead mean a man has to lose his job? 0-0 would have been different. Don't let two in, but totally toothless at home. I'll tell you exactly what it is - people are just knee-jerking because they're butthurt at losing a 2-0 lead and their feelings felt hurt in those 5mins. Boohoo.

---

And here you go again Ian being a bit of a tit, trying to get all psychoanalytical as to why I say what I say. Stop it, it's fvcking pathetic. Make logical counter-points if you can, don't hide behind character analysis just because you can't.

I never call you out for being a sheep, or worse for your cowardly play-it-safe stance of "in but only because he'll be gone anyway". Don't fear HNA. Like you don't with Ejaria/Moore - oh but hang on are you just wanting to be controversial? Easy with small things innit eh? I don't because I trust you actually believe those things, that's fine.

Truth is I just don't know, but will boldly call out his shit fitness excuse when I hear it, and fans' bedwetting when I see it. Give me a run of humiliating defeats though and I'll be leading the revolt like I was last season when everyone seemed to be jizzing over the honeymoon games.

Task - keep us up in ridiculously difficult circumstances. Progress - without a deduction 9 points off relegation/12 off playoffs. Even with deduction still 3pts off relegation but with roughly midtable form this season. So sack him for what exactly? For not being 7th again? I also think he actually has a lot FOR him and he may a rough diamond. Like when I argued for Brenda stay - look at him now.

But no... perhaps I'm just getting kicks out of being controversial because I really enjoy wasting my time debating with bedwetters.

It's hard to have an intelligent debate with a guy who ignores any intelligent points he doesn’t like, picks a minority position and backs it in the face of everything to be different. Especially one who doesn’t understand what zonal marking is and tries to blame it for every defensive mistake.

95% of your posts are obvious wind up.

Ok, so you're descending into a personal attack again because you can't answer the points. and I refuse to rise to it. Happens so often with you, shame.

Let's debate everything with logic, I always do. I don't leave out any intelligent points, I battle them head on and give my opinions. I'm not the one who replies to several paragraphs of logical explanation with one liners, smiley faces and personal attacks. I write too much and ramble on too much if anything.

I've been clear with my logic even if you don't like it and haven't run from this debate in the slightest. That's been you.

My windup posts are clearly windup as I try to be funny (but fail). My serious posts are serious and anyone with a brain can tell them apart.

Anyway, I won't fall out with you over this, it really isn't worth it. Our views tend to align with most things over the years - much bigger fish to fry than what we think about Pauno tbf - not like it's going to change what happens at RFC, we're shite regardless.

[Snowflake Royal]

You're right it's not hard - there is MORE bedwetting now because of those 5mins of play. How does giving up a 2-0 lead mean a man has to lose his job? 0-0 would have been different. Don't let two in, but totally toothless at home. I'll tell you exactly what it is - people are just knee-jerking because they're butthurt at losing a 2-0 lead and their feelings felt hurt in those 5mins. Boohoo.

---

And here you go again Ian being a bit of a tit, trying to get all psychoanalytical as to why I say what I say. Stop it, it's fvcking pathetic. Make logical counter-points if you can, don't hide behind character analysis just because you can't.

I never call you out for being a sheep, or worse for your cowardly play-it-safe stance of "in but only because he'll be gone anyway". Don't fear HNA. Like you don't with Ejaria/Moore - oh but hang on are you just wanting to be controversial? Easy with small things innit eh? I don't because I trust you actually believe those things, that's fine.

Truth is I just don't know, but will boldly call out his shit fitness excuse when I hear it, and fans' bedwetting when I see it. Give me a run of humiliating defeats though and I'll be leading the revolt like I was last season when everyone seemed to be jizzing over the honeymoon games.

Task - keep us up in ridiculously difficult circumstances. Progress - without a deduction 9 points off relegation/12 off playoffs. Even with deduction still 3pts off relegation but with roughly midtable form this season. So sack him for what exactly? For not being 7th again? I also think he actually has a lot FOR him and he may a rough diamond. Like when I argued for Brenda stay - look at him now.

But no... perhaps I'm just getting kicks out of being controversial because I really enjoy wasting my time debating with bedwetters.

It's hard to have an intelligent debate with a guy who ignores any intelligent points he doesn’t like, picks a minority position and backs it in the face of everything to be different. Especially one who doesn’t understand what zonal marking is and tries to blame it for every defensive mistake.

95% of your posts are obvious wind up.

Ok, so you're descending into a personal attack again because you can't answer the points. and I refuse to rise to it. Happens so often with you, shame.

Let's debate everything with logic, I always do. I don't leave out any intelligent points, I battle them head on and give my opinions. I'm not the one who replies to several paragraphs of logical explanation with one liners, smiley faces and personal attacks. I write too much and ramble on too much if anything.

I've been clear with my logic even if you don't like it and haven't run from this debate in the slightest. That's been you.

My windup posts are clearly windup as I try to be funny (but fail). My serious posts are serious and anyone with a brain can tell them apart.

Anyway, I won't fall out with you over this, it really isn't worth it. Our views tend to align with most things over the years - much bigger fish to fry than what we think about Pauno tbf - not like it's going to change what happens at RFC, we're shite regardless.

Hypocrite

[Millsy]

It's hard to have an intelligent debate with a guy who ignores any intelligent points he doesn’t like, picks a minority position and backs it in the face of everything to be different. Especially one who doesn’t understand what zonal marking is and tries to blame it for every defensive mistake.

95% of your posts are obvious wind up.

Ok, so you're descending into a personal attack again because you can't answer the points. and I refuse to rise to it. Happens so often with you, shame.

Let's debate everything with logic, I always do. I don't leave out any intelligent points, I battle them head on and give my opinions. I'm not the one who replies to several paragraphs of logical explanation with one liners, smiley faces and personal attacks. I write too much and ramble on too much if anything.

I've been clear with my logic even if you don't like it and haven't run from this debate in the slightest. That's been you.

My windup posts are clearly windup as I try to be funny (but fail). My serious posts are serious and anyone with a brain can tell them apart.

Anyway, I won't fall out with you over this, it really isn't worth it. Our views tend to align with most things over the years - much bigger fish to fry than what we think about Pauno tbf - not like it's going to change what happens at RFC, we're shite regardless.

Hypocrite

And that proves my case. One word useless answer.

Did I come up with that term? No. Does it refer to individuals? No, it a collective term for a large chunk of Reading fans. Is it about you? Actually no, you're definitely not one of those, you're hanging on. Do I have any idea about the continence of the people I'm referring to? Obviously not.

Again, not rising to it, not getting personal. You're ok.

[Pepe the Horseman]

You're right it's not hard - there is MORE bedwetting now because of those 5mins of play. How does giving up a 2-0 lead mean a man has to lose his job? 0-0 would have been different. Don't let two in, but totally toothless at home. I'll tell you exactly what it is - people are just knee-jerking because they're butthurt at losing a 2-0 lead and their feelings felt hurt in those 5mins. Boohoo.

It's not because we threw away a two goal lead. It's because IT KEEPS FCUKING HAPPENING.

[Millsy]

You're right it's not hard - there is MORE bedwetting now because of those 5mins of play. How does giving up a 2-0 lead mean a man has to lose his job? 0-0 would have been different. Don't let two in, but totally toothless at home. I'll tell you exactly what it is - people are just knee-jerking because they're butthurt at losing a 2-0 lead and their feelings felt hurt in those 5mins. Boohoo.

It's not because we threw away a two goal lead. It's because IT KEEPS FCUKING HAPPENING.

It's happened three times.

It's annoying, I get that.

He has a flaw - we all agree.

But what's the outcome? Do we lose EVERY lead? Do we not win games ever because of this flaw? All things considered, all points lost due to losing leads... are we now worse off than we expected us to be at the beginning of the season with the embargo, player losses etc etc.. when we were simply hoping to avoid relegation? That's before we were hit with ridiculous injuries and the points deduction. Despite that, warts and all, we're still 3 points off relegation. Without the points deduction and with all the mitigations above we'd be NINE points from relegation and TWELVE points from the playoffs.

So yes it 'keeps' (i.e. 3 times) happening, and we agree it's a flaw but what is the outcome? Bad manager, must be sacked? Or... yeah it's annoying but we're on track and doing better than expected.

[Snowflake Royal]

It's ok, we only lose 49% of our games.

[Franchise FC]

You're right it's not hard - there is MORE bedwetting now because of those 5mins of play. How does giving up a 2-0 lead mean a man has to lose his job? 0-0 would have been different. Don't let two in, but totally toothless at home. I'll tell you exactly what it is - people are just knee-jerking because they're butthurt at losing a 2-0 lead and their feelings felt hurt in those 5mins. Boohoo.

It's not because we threw away a two goal lead. It's because IT KEEPS FCUKING HAPPENING.

I still maintain this latest one wasn’t about DECIDING to sit back to protect a lead, but the result of none of the midfield being able to put two passes together meaning we were immediately on the back foot throughout the second half

[Millsy]

You're right it's not hard - there is MORE bedwetting now because of those 5mins of play. How does giving up a 2-0 lead mean a man has to lose his job? 0-0 would have been different. Don't let two in, but totally toothless at home. I'll tell you exactly what it is - people are just knee-jerking because they're butthurt at losing a 2-0 lead and their feelings felt hurt in those 5mins. Boohoo.

It's not because we threw away a two goal lead. It's because IT KEEPS FCUKING HAPPENING.

I still maintain this latest one wasn’t about DECIDING to sit back to protect a lead, but the result of none of the midfield being able to put two passes together meaning we were immediately on the back foot throughout the second half

I agree.

[Ascotexgunner]

For some reason the "in" button doesn't work for me. I smell conspiracy.
I thought we did ok til Southwood screwed up. We were dropping deep but the 2 cd's had a good understanding and they weren't bothering us that much.
Thought the midfield were poor though throughout the game but we should have had enough to shut them out. That keeper error though was a howler. Can't help but feel Southwood bought that on himself by lack of concentration through his shithosery and winding up the Derby fans.
We move on.

[Hound]

It's not because we threw away a two goal lead. It's because IT KEEPS FCUKING HAPPENING.

I still maintain this latest one wasn’t about DECIDING to sit back to protect a lead, but the result of none of the midfield being able to put two passes together meaning we were immediately on the back foot throughout the second half

I agree.

Yep so change the system, don’t just wait for the inevitable to happen.

[Franchise FC]

I still maintain this latest one wasn’t about DECIDING to sit back to protect a lead, but the result of none of the midfield being able to put two passes together meaning we were immediately on the back foot throughout the second half

I agree.

Yep so change the system, don’t just wait for the inevitable to happen.

Ok, but the only alternative when you can’t pass the ball would seem to be hoofball

[Orion1871]

For some reason the "in" button doesn't work for me. I smell conspiracy.
I thought we did ok til Southwood screwed up. We were dropping deep but the 2 cd's had a good understanding and they weren't bothering us that much.
Thought the midfield were poor though throughout the game but we should have had enough to shut them out. That keeper error though was a howler. Can't help but feel Southwood bought that on himself by lack of concentration through his shithosery and winding up the Derby fans.
We move on.

Actually think it was a tactic from Derby to put deep crosses in. If you watch the goal we conceded up at their place, Southwood gets lost in no man's land underneath a cross in the build up. They likely remembered that and used it.

[Ascotexgunner]

For some reason the "in" button doesn't work for me. I smell conspiracy.
I thought we did ok til Southwood screwed up. We were dropping deep but the 2 cd's had a good understanding and they weren't bothering us that much.
Thought the midfield were poor though throughout the game but we should have had enough to shut them out. That keeper error though was a howler. Can't help but feel Southwood bought that on himself by lack of concentration through his shithosery and winding up the Derby fans.
We move on.

Actually think it was a tactic from Derby to put deep crosses in. If you watch the goal we conceded up at their place, Southwood gets lost in no man's land underneath a cross in the build up. They likely remembered that and used it.

Just watching the highlights of that game, your right, he was a bit all over the place at a few crosses that night.