Nigel Howe says...

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by Woodcote Royal » 16 Nov 2007 14:45

Gus the teenage cow Howe lacks credibility, he's not a football man


:P

So where does that leave all the fans who can't see the bigger picture :?

He might be stating the obvious but this is a timely reminder from the boardroom that this club's long term aspirations stretch way beyond making up the numbers in the top flight.

So, if you're "getting bored with Premiership football" or would sooner pay a tenner and watch non league footy, perhaps the Royal county has out grown you.

This club has always had huge potential, for all the reasons stated, and if we managed to attract 30k+ fans for the Simod Cup Final all those years ago, we'll have no problem getting similar numbers to watch a successful local side compete on equal terms witth some of the best the country has to offer.

I remain convinced that some of those who rubbish these aspirations do so because they don't want the club to become any bigger than it is now :?

Arsenal did very well out of 38k Highbury and I'm sure we'd find away to expand further if required.

This is the club saying we haven't finished our journey from obscurity and no one welcomes it more than me.

You get better with age, Nige :lol:

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by Kitsonista » 16 Nov 2007 14:50

Victor Meldrew Even though I don't like Howe's tone as a product provider to us consumers I have no problem with his mood of ambition even if that has yet to be shown on the pitch with better quality players.
Where I would disagree with him is that he left out previous champions such as Aston Villa and Man City who IMHO will always be much bigger clubs than us with a core support built up over the past 100 years and more.
Clubs like Wolves and Sheff Wednesday would have the capability of attracting 40,000 crowds if they ever make it back to the top level and Pompey would attract the same level with a suitable ground.

Just because we are where we are geographically doesn't guarantee anything, it takes much,much more than the right geography to become an attractive team that neutrals might want to come to watch.
If we play like we did v Arsenal much more we would struggle to get the 17,000 that Bolton had on Sunday v Middlesborough.
Keep talking the talk Nigel but make sure that we survive this season first by bringing in better players otherwise we are in danger of relating more to Coventry and Ipswich rather than Spurs and Newcastle.


Interesting also that the "Big Clubs" have all built up a fan base in the 100 years before televised football, when the FA Cup was a small item in the local cinema newsreel. A foreigner was someone from a non local team, not from outside the UK. What provides the fan base is community, a sense of belonging and that my dears you'll find it tough to find in Reading. What with the "Real Fans", "Diehards", "Plastics" and "RTG's" there's no cohesion within Reading FC anyway.

This also applies to the communities around the area. With the mass injection of new families into the new estates, there's no sense of belonging like there are in areas where families have been in the same community for hundreds of years and collectively have supported the local team for the period. We don't have a collective psyche like "Geordies", "Tykes", Mackams", "Cockneys" or "Mancs". We belong to a generic group or groups, "Southerners", or "The Home Counties". The people coming in already support established teams. Think how many Hammers or Chelski fans are around. I won't quote Man U fans as they're endemic everywhere.

If you want to think in terms of large numbers of die hard RFC fans you need to think in terms of a generation or two before it happens. RFC are actually moving into the communities more than a few years ago. My Wife works in a little country school west of Maidenhead, for 3 or 4 seasons Wycombe came and did football skills for the boys. Now RFC come in and do football for everyone. We've seen more RFC shirts appearing and more children have been to the MadStad. Given this, if in their turn these children bring their children then we might get an increase in the crowd noise and numbers. Remember quite a few people have never been to the MadStad and even with Premiership status would prefer to see Slough, Maidenhead, Wokingham etc. It's the children of those groups you need to influence. Previous Posts talked about shirt availability, RFC do need to ensure a wider distribution of their merchandise. To paraphrase the famous phrase: Give me a seven year old and a free RFC shirt and I'll show you a die hard Royal. :wink:

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by Dirk Gently » 16 Nov 2007 14:55

Kitsonista Interesting also that the "Big Clubs" have all built up a fan base in the 100 years before televised football, when the FA Cup was a small item in the local cinema newsreel. A foreigner was someone from a non local team, not from outside the UK. What provides the fan base is community, a sense of belonging and that my dears you'll find it tough to find in Reading. What with the "Real Fans", "Diehards", "Plastics" and "RTG's" there's no cohesion within Reading FC anyway.

This also applies to the communities around the area. With the mass injection of new families into the new estates, there's no sense of belonging like there are in areas where families have been in the same community for hundreds of years and collectively have supported the local team for the period. We don't have a collective psyche like "Geordies", "Tykes", Mackams", "Cockneys" or "Mancs". We belong to a generic group or groups, "Southerners", or "The Home Counties". The people coming in already support established teams. Think how many Hammers or Chelski fans are around. I won't quote Man U fans as they're endemic everywhere.

If you want to think in terms of large numbers of die hard RFC fans you need to think in terms of a generation or two before it happens. RFC are actually moving into the communities more than a few years ago. My Wife works in a little country school west of Maidenhead, for 3 or 4 seasons Wycombe came and did football skills for the boys. Now RFC come in and do football for everyone. We've seen more RFC shirts appearing and more children have been to the MadStad. Given this, if in their turn these children bring their children then we might get an increase in the crowd noise and numbers. Remember quite a few people have never been to the MadStad and even with Premiership status would prefer to see Slough, Maidenhead, Wokingham etc. It's the children of those groups you need to influence. Previous Posts talked about shirt availability, RFC do need to ensure a wider distribution of their merchandise. To paraphrase the famous phrase: Give me a seven year old and a free RFC shirt and I'll show you a die hard Royal. :wink:


A really good summing up, and also a great explanaton of why we need extra capacity. Even if we can't fill every new seat every week, giving seats cheap to kids will ensure we get a payback from it for generations to come.

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by Gordon Cumming's right ho » 16 Nov 2007 14:56

Only read first two pages on Crackberry but have sympathy with AP and papereyes POV.

It's all a metter of economics, innit? Brick by brick is good to cement Prem status - which means we have to, absolutely must, stay up this year... And do so without splashing loads of cash because, as we know, that could all go horribly wrong.

But NH is right to set out a new agenda. New goals, targets and ambition. The natives are getting restless and we all know, in our heart of hearts, that this squad can barely hold its own in the Prem.

So the target is set. We are not going to be a yoyo club, bobbing up and down with uncertain cashflow.

We need to stash enough in the bank to build a new team of real quality, a team which will excite rather than just provide entertainment for us old hardcore who still can't quite believe that little old Reading is playing in the best league in the world.

A team that will also attract the 'plastics' from the wider catchment area to mostly fill a 38K stadium week in, week out.

But, and here's the catch, that team will have to sustain the momentum and the Club will have to follow suit, year in, year out over decades, over generations, before we can even think to be a Spurs, Newcastle or Everton.

And that, fellow Nobbers, is called ambition.

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by Gordon Cumming's right ho » 16 Nov 2007 15:20

I have just read the couple of posts above my previous and they are absolutely spot on.

Reading is a transient, nomadic, satellite, dormitory town but that is not to say that we can't win the hearts and minds of the nippers whose mum and dad support Liverpool or MUFC or Portsmouth... It happened to me 40 years ago.

The club is at a frustrating stage in its development - it is a delicate balancing act of revenue and ambition.

But now the benchmark is set we all know that trips to the Vic in Hartlepool will be saved for the FA Cup.

The Prem is growing on me and we can all decide to be just another also ran making up the numbers year after year, or we can choose to be a top 10 club in the medium term ... Or a Big Five club in five generations.

Alternatively, we can all enjoy the ride while it lasts and go back to enjoying the delights of Gillingham, Bury and ummm... Torquay with the ocassional highlight thrown in.

What's it going to be Nobbers?


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by brendywendy » 16 Nov 2007 15:27

seeing local children in a reading top used to be cause to almost pass out

its so common now i hardly even smile to myself when i see them

it must be nice for them to be able to wear them without much peer group mockery


saying that my god-son has asked me for a reading, or west ham top for xmas

i told his mum they can fck off if they think im buyting any of that claret and blue shite

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by Kitsonista » 16 Nov 2007 15:43

Gordon Cumming's right ho Only read first two pages on Crackberry but have sympathy with AP and papereyes POV.

It's all a metter of economics, innit? Brick by brick is good to cement Prem status - which means we have to, absolutely must, stay up this year... And do so without splashing loads of cash because, as we know, that could all go horribly wrong.

But NH is right to set out a new agenda. New goals, targets and ambition. The natives are getting restless and we all know, in our heart of hearts, that this squad can barely hold its own in the Prem.

So the target is set. We are not going to be a yoyo club, bobbing up and down with uncertain cashflow.

We need to stash enough in the bank to build a new team of real quality, a team which will excite rather than just provide entertainment for us old hardcore who still can't quite believe that little old Reading is playing in the best league in the world.

A team that will also attract the 'plastics' from the wider catchment area to mostly fill a 38K stadium week in, week out.

But, and here's the catch, that team will have to sustain the momentum and the Club will have to follow suit, year in, year out over decades, over generations, before we can even think to be a Spurs, Newcastle or Everton.
And that, fellow Nobbers, is called ambition.


As long as you keep calling them "plastics" you don't got no community. Would you want to join a club where you were reviled every time your name was mentioned. Community is about welcoming in new people, showing them the way round, offering help, buying them a beer and showing support. Should you really be abusive to people who are prepared to spend their money like you to support the things you believe in?

Do you think you own the exclusive rights to be a Reading supporter, if there's a test to prove your "Readingness", you ought to be prepared to teach the newcomers the ropes, show them what it means to support RFC. Slagging them off as "plastics" is disrespectful and dishonest. Sure they weren't around in 199X or earlier, but they're here now and you don't own the rights to be classified a "real" supporter, it's a fiction and it doesn't exist.

Being an RFC fan has to be a condition, like being "Geordies", it's where you're living, working, loving. It's got to be part of your upbringing. It's a generational thing. It will be for or five decades before a true "RFC" fanbase over 50K or 60K strong exists. You'll know when it does, as they'll be saying, 38K how can a premiership team play in such a small stadium. Sadly I won't see that but any grandchildren should. will, they want to wear the hoops and go to the ground like granddad did, I really, really hope so.

I was brought up in East London, and for the first 15 years of my life I supported the Hammers. Joined their player Fan clubs went to games. I came to Reading, where I went to school and saw an occasional game. I enjoyed the small club atmosphere. I then didn't go until the late 80's and early 90's as my sons grew old enough to go.

I was a plastic during the Play Off season and I became hooked. I've been an STF ever since, cried at the end of the play off final, swore and cursed as we slid down the league(s), cheered clapped and cried again in the championship winning season. So am I a loyal Royal, you bet. My life and my work is in and around here, Reading is now my "home" and has been for 35 years. I have no allegiance to West Ham apart from it's where my parents and grandparents come from. Had I been treated the way you talk about the "plastics" I'd still be supporting West Ham. And that would be three less Loyal Royals. Think about it. :twisted:

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by Alan Partridge » 16 Nov 2007 16:14

Gordon Cumming's right ho I have just read the couple of posts above my previous and they are absolutely spot on.

Reading is a transient, nomadic, satellite, dormitory town but that is not to say that we can't win the hearts and minds of the nippers whose mum and dad support Liverpool or MUFC or Portsmouth... It happened to me 40 years ago.

The club is at a frustrating stage in its development - it is a delicate balancing act of revenue and ambition.

But now the benchmark is set we all know that trips to the Vic in Hartlepool will be saved for the FA Cup.

The Prem is growing on me and we can all decide to be just another also ran making up the numbers year after year, or we can choose to be a top 10 club in the medium term ... Or a Big Five club in five generations.

Alternatively, we can all enjoy the ride while it lasts and go back to enjoying the delights of Gillingham, Bury and ummm... Torquay with the ocassional highlight thrown in.

What's it going to be Nobbers?


OI!!! Nothing wrong with the English Riviera!! going to Torquay > Bolton 8) :wink:

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by Kitsonista » 16 Nov 2007 16:17

Alan Partridge
Gordon Cumming's right ho I have just read the couple of posts above my previous and they are absolutely spot on.

Reading is a transient, nomadic, satellite, dormitory town but that is not to say that we can't win the hearts and minds of the nippers whose mum and dad support Liverpool or MUFC or Portsmouth... It happened to me 40 years ago.

The club is at a frustrating stage in its development - it is a delicate balancing act of revenue and ambition.

But now the benchmark is set we all know that trips to the Vic in Hartlepool will be saved for the FA Cup.

The Prem is growing on me and we can all decide to be just another also ran making up the numbers year after year, or we can choose to be a top 10 club in the medium term ... Or a Big Five club in five generations.

Alternatively, we can all enjoy the ride while it lasts and go back to enjoying the delights of Gillingham, Bury and ummm... Torquay with the ocassional highlight thrown in.

What's it going to be Nobbers?


OI!!! Nothing wrong with the English Riviera!! going to Torquay > Bolton 8) :wink:


I spent my honeymoon in Torquay

Bolton > Torquay :shock:


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by Behindu » 16 Nov 2007 16:17

Kitsonista As long as you keep calling them "plastics" you don't got no community. Would you want to join a club where you were reviled every time your name was mentioned.


To be fair the 'plastic' term is really only used by a small number of people on this board. I don't think anyone visiting the ground for a match would be called a 'plastic' by their neighbour.
HNA isn;t representative of RFC fans as a whole, any more than a bunch of people in the pub is.

Agree with your point about community though and I would love to see more being done to develop that. I think we lose some of it by not having reserve games at the stadium and I also believe there should be lots of non match day events run at the stadium or in other areas. Whether those are directly football related or not doesn;t matter. I'd love to see a pub in every area declaring itslef a 'Royals Pub' - and meaning it.

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by Kitsonista » 16 Nov 2007 16:20

Behindu
Kitsonista As long as you keep calling them "plastics" you don't got no community. Would you want to join a club where you were reviled every time your name was mentioned.


To be fair the 'plastic' term is really only used by a small number of people on this board. I don't think anyone visiting the ground for a match would be called a 'plastic' by their neighbour.
HNA isn;t representative of RFC fans as a whole, any more than a bunch of people in the pub is.

Agree with your point about community though and I would love to see more being done to develop that. I think we lose some of it by not having reserve games at the stadium and I also believe there should be lots of non match day events run at the stadium or in other areas. Whether those are directly football related or not doesn;t matter. I'd love to see a pub in every area declaring itslef a 'Royals Pub' - and meaning it.


Perhaps we can persuade a few of the team to visit local pubs and have a beer with everyone :oops:

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by Alan Partridge » 16 Nov 2007 16:21

Kitsonista
Alan Partridge
Gordon Cumming's right ho I have just read the couple of posts above my previous and they are absolutely spot on.

Reading is a transient, nomadic, satellite, dormitory town but that is not to say that we can't win the hearts and minds of the nippers whose mum and dad support Liverpool or MUFC or Portsmouth... It happened to me 40 years ago.

The club is at a frustrating stage in its development - it is a delicate balancing act of revenue and ambition.

But now the benchmark is set we all know that trips to the Vic in Hartlepool will be saved for the FA Cup.

The Prem is growing on me and we can all decide to be just another also ran making up the numbers year after year, or we can choose to be a top 10 club in the medium term ... Or a Big Five club in five generations.

Alternatively, we can all enjoy the ride while it lasts and go back to enjoying the delights of Gillingham, Bury and ummm... Torquay with the ocassional highlight thrown in.

What's it going to be Nobbers?


OI!!! Nothing wrong with the English Riviera!! going to Torquay > Bolton 8) :wink:


I spent my honeymoon in Torquay

Bolton > Torquay :shock:


You knew how to treat your wife!!

Some good posts on here Kitsonista - keep posting, makes a change from reading the same ol shite! 8)

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by Gordon Cumming's right ho » 16 Nov 2007 16:21

Kitsonista, not sure how to react to that last post... I think it was aimed as a stinging attack on me as any individual rather than the amorphous mass of 'diehards'...

If you would like to read my original post more carefully I hoe you will find I was actually very much in agreement with you. My reference to the puerile, perjotarive and supercilious term of 'plastics' was intentionally put in inverted commas for ironic effect.

As further evidence, I alluded to tje fact that I could I and should - have been a Pompey fan. Born and bred there, parents and grandparents STHs, saw my firdt two seasons at FP and only chose RFC as Kmy club in 1968 when the old man left the navy and started work in London. I guess that makes me a 'plastic', too :-)

The use of the term is shameful and especially so, as you so eloquently say, if we have ambition to be a serious grown up club, competing at the highest level with a hardcore support going back generations and well established fan clubs supporting the team from across the globe.

God knows, having been any ex-pat for a decade and living a solitary existence as a Roayls fan in the desert, it makes my heart swell to sit in a boozer to watch all the matches knowing that there are now other Royals here, too, now ... And always, always words of praise fron supporters of the 'Big Clubs'.


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by Behindu » 16 Nov 2007 16:23

Kitsonista Perhaps we can persuade a few of the team to visit local pubs and have a beer with everyone :oops:


There were plenty in the past who wouldn;t have needed persuading....

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by Kitsonista » 16 Nov 2007 16:26

Alan Partridge
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Gordon Cumming's right ho I have just read the couple of posts above my previous and they are absolutely spot on.

Reading is a transient, nomadic, satellite, dormitory town but that is not to say that we can't win the hearts and minds of the nippers whose mum and dad support Liverpool or MUFC or Portsmouth... It happened to me 40 years ago.

The club is at a frustrating stage in its development - it is a delicate balancing act of revenue and ambition.

But now the benchmark is set we all know that trips to the Vic in Hartlepool will be saved for the FA Cup.

The Prem is growing on me and we can all decide to be just another also ran making up the numbers year after year, or we can choose to be a top 10 club in the medium term ... Or a Big Five club in five generations.

Alternatively, we can all enjoy the ride while it lasts and go back to enjoying the delights of Gillingham, Bury and ummm... Torquay with the ocassional highlight thrown in.

What's it going to be Nobbers?


OI!!! Nothing wrong with the English Riviera!! going to Torquay > Bolton 8) :wink:


I spent my honeymoon in Torquay

Bolton > Torquay :shock:


You knew how to treat your wife!!

Some good posts on here Kitsonista - keep posting, makes a change from reading the same ol shite! 8)


Thanks Mr P,

I treat my wife like an airplane, to misquote Captain Flashheart,

I turn up in departures to find my flight cancelled, so make alternative arrangements :twisted:

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by Alan Partridge » 16 Nov 2007 16:29

SImple fact is, people will watch a succesful team, bottom line. How did teams like Forest become 'big clubs'? Because when Clough went there, they were 2nd or 3rd division and anything but a 'big club'. He brought success there, they won things, people went to see the best team with the best players. THen they pass it down and your fanbase grows.

Not going to repeat myself but if Reading (who have never been a big club) are to join the likes of Spurs or Villa in terms of 'size' they've got to be succesful. They've got to win domestic cups, get better every season, established PRem side that is NEVER going to go down, a team that is going to fight the top 6 or 7 every season. This is where i'm a broken record again, it's got to be done with investment in the playing staff. They are the guys that bring the success. Not a big half empty stadium or hot air from board room executives.

Reading have had success over the last 5-6 years, they've invested large sums of money for the divisions they were in, they've got promotions and now they are fighting against teams far richer and far more powerful than them. This is a whole new world for the club and importantly for JM, a world that he wants no part of!! I don't blame him, the numbers are frightening. In all fairness if the ambition is to challenge these top clubs then it needs a seriously wealthy person to put the clout in and make the changes. Madejski feels he's done as much as he can and has put in as much as he wants to put in no one is gonna begrudge him moving aside now after 18 years.

Hopefully for the interest of everyone he can find that billionaire (and that's what it needs to be) to take Reading FC to 'the next step'.

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by Kitsonista » 16 Nov 2007 16:31

Gordon Cumming's right ho Kitsonista, not sure how to react to that last post... I think it was aimed as a stinging attack on me as any individual rather than the amorphous mass of 'diehards'...

If you would like to read my original post more carefully I hoe you will find I was actually very much in agreement with you. My reference to the puerile, perjotarive and supercilious term of 'plastics' was intentionally put in inverted commas for ironic effect.

As further evidence, I alluded to tje fact that I could I and should - have been a Pompey fan. Born and bred there, parents and grandparents STHs, saw my firdt two seasons at FP and only chose RFC as Kmy club in 1968 when the old man left the navy and started work in London. I guess that makes me a 'plastic', too :-)

The use of the term is shameful and especially so, as you so eloquently say, if we have ambition to be a serious grown up club, competing at the highest level with a hardcore support going back generations and well established fan clubs supporting the team from across the globe.

God knows, having been any ex-pat for a decade and living a solitary existence as a Roayls fan in the desert, it makes my heart swell to sit in a boozer to watch all the matches knowing that there are now other Royals here, too, now ... And always, always words of praise fron supporters of the 'Big Clubs'.


Sorry GCrh :cry: , not even obliquely aimed at your good self, just a little tired of the term. IMO the use by yourself has been totally tongue in cheek and fully appreciate that.

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by Kitsonista » 16 Nov 2007 16:36

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Kitsonista Perhaps we can persuade a few of the team to visit local pubs and have a beer with everyone :oops:


There were plenty in the past who wouldn;t have needed persuading....


Yeah, Friday Nights with Robin!!!

How about the following evenings:

Lashed with Long
Hungover with Hunty
Mullahed with Murts
S**tfaced with Shorey
Legless with Little
Incapable with Ingy
Drunk with Doobs
Lagered with Lita
Etc... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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by Kitsonista » 16 Nov 2007 16:46

Alan Partridge SImple fact is, people will watch a succesful team, bottom line. How did teams like Forest become 'big clubs'? Because when Clough went there, they were 2nd or 3rd division and anything but a 'big club'. He brought success there, they won things, people went to see the best team with the best players. THen they pass it down and your fanbase grows.

Not going to repeat myself but if Reading (who have never been a big club) are to join the likes of Spurs or Villa in terms of 'size' they've got to be succesful. They've got to win domestic cups, get better every season, established PRem side that is NEVER going to go down, a team that is going to fight the top 6 or 7 every season. This is where i'm a broken record again, it's got to be done with investment in the playing staff. They are the guys that bring the success. Not a big half empty stadium or hot air from board room executives.

Reading have had success over the last 5-6 years, they've invested large sums of money for the divisions they were in, they've got promotions and now they are fighting against teams far richer and far more powerful than them. This is a whole new world for the club and importantly for JM, a world that he wants no part of!! I don't blame him, the numbers are frightening. In all fairness if the ambition is to challenge these top clubs then it needs a seriously wealthy person to put the clout in and make the changes. Madejski feels he's done as much as he can and has put in as much as he wants to put in no one is gonna begrudge him moving aside now after 18 years.

Hopefully for the interest of everyone he can find that billionaire (and that's what it needs to be) to take Reading FC to 'the next step'.


Spot on, but it's Chicken and Egg, If we invest millions on new players and still go down, that's money wasted. Mr M always needs to see a bottom line with no if's and buts. Football, and Prem Football especially isn't like that. I think for the first time in a long time he's not sure. He got over the hurdles into the big league, but suddenly 15 years experience doesn't amount to anything. That's why he's looking for a buyer, someone with the balls to make big time decisions. Notice that he said it would need a Billionare to take it to the next stage.

He knows that to get the fan base and therefore income up we need to stay in the prem, his best bet is therefore to let SC pick up one or two players who at the least will keep us up and therefore add to the funds in the coffers and keep the rest banked against the future.

Big, big decisions for the big man. If he gets it right he's an imortal, get it wrong and he's tomorrows chip paper.

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by Behindu » 16 Nov 2007 16:49

Alan Partridge Not going to repeat myself but if Reading (who have never been a big club) are to join the likes of Spurs or Villa in terms of 'size' they've got to be succesful. They've got to win domestic cups, get better every season, established PRem side that is NEVER going to go down, a team that is going to fight the top 6 or 7 every season. This is where i'm a broken record again, it's got to be done with investment in the playing staff. They are the guys that bring the success. Not a big half empty stadium or hot air from board room executives.

.


Pompey seem to be doing OK without winning anything. We're constantly told what a big and loyal fan base they have.
Likewise Sunderland - not won anything at the top level in the lifetime of the majority of their fans yet get very big crowds.
I agree that it is what happens on the pitch that attracts fans to a large extent, but we've grown hugely without winning domestic cups and being a top 6 club.
We shall see - but you are right, words are by no means a substitute for actions.

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