Reading's wage bill in perspective

[papereyes]

So for about an extra 3% effort ON the pitch we would have got the extra point that would have meant no 40% wage reductions.
A pity somebody didn't spell out hard facts such as those before the Fulham game.

who knows? Maybe it's possible that the defeat to Fulham wasn't a result of the players not trying.

Trying wouldn't have harmed things, though, would it?

[RoyalBlue]

Sober or not I always find the utter stupidity of the Madejski bashers somewhat staggering.

Well, perhaps you should get trashed more often as that was not very pompous.

Anyway, I agree with you about Madejski, without him we wouldn't be where we are. Just look at the graph on the 30 years progress thread.

Acknowledge his contribution by all means. However, to suggest that contribution was made purely through philanthropical motives and without any thought of what he might get in return is so utterly stupid as to be more than somewhat staggering.

[Thaumagurist*]

.

[brendywendy]

Sober or not I always find the utter stupidity of the Madejski bashers somewhat staggering.

Well, perhaps you should get trashed more often as that was not very pompous.

Anyway, I agree with you about Madejski, without him we wouldn't be where we are. Just look at the graph on the 30 years progress thread.

Acknowledge his contribution by all means. However, to suggest that contribution was made purely through philanthropical motives and without any thought of what he might get in return is so utterly stupid as to be more than somewhat staggering.

im not sure, as i havent gone back through to check, you can if you like
but im sure you will struggle to find any serious potsers saying anything of the sort

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

So for about an extra 3% effort ON the pitch we would have got the extra point that would have meant no 40% wage reductions.
A pity somebody didn't spell out hard facts such as those before the Fulham game.

who knows? Maybe it's possible that the defeat to Fulham wasn't a result of the players not trying.

Trying wouldn't have harmed things, though, would it?

to repeat, maybe we didn't lose the game because the players weren't trying, i.e. a bad performance doesn't mean the players weren't trying.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Sober or not I always find the utter stupidity of the Madejski bashers somewhat staggering.

Well, perhaps you should get trashed more often as that was not very pompous.

Anyway, I agree with you about Madejski, without him we wouldn't be where we are. Just look at the graph on the 30 years progress thread.

Acknowledge his contribution by all means. However, to suggest that contribution was made purely through philanthropical motives and without any thought of what he might get in return is so utterly stupid as to be more than somewhat staggering.

so what do you reckon Madejski thought he could get out of buying Reading 18 years ago? It could make him rich? It could make him famous? What?

[papereyes]

to repeat, maybe we didn't lose the game because the players weren't trying, i.e. a bad performance doesn't mean the players weren't trying.

But a performance showing a complete lack of commitment or effort might do? Certainly the reverse of your comment would be true.

Or when Reading play shite against a team that we could have and should have beaten, we must all pretend that the footballing gods had just decided it weren't to be our day?

[Ian Royal]

to repeat, maybe we didn't lose the game because the players weren't trying, i.e. a bad performance doesn't mean the players weren't trying.

But a performance showing a complete lack of commitment or effort might do? Certainly the reverse of your comment would be true.

Or when Reading play shite against a team that we could have and should have beaten, we must all pretend that the footballing gods had just decided it weren't to be our day?

Given Fulham's form it wasn't that surprising they beat us. Had they not got 3 other wins in the last 4 games then there is much more of an arguement for us not trying. But we got beaten by a team with more drive, determination and better morale. A Team boosted by the return of two of it's star players.

I was at the Fulham game and I don't think you could accuse many of our players of not trying. Being clueless and hopelessly out of form and confidence is a different matter. I don't think they were playing at top gear, but I don't see that it necessarily means they weren't trying. It is a bit of a case of semantics though.

[Royal Rother]

I agree. It's just silliness of the highest order to suggest the players were not trying. Even If the only thing that motivates them is money they would still be trying their balls off in the knowledge that relegation would mean, it appears, a 40% reduction in their salary, and certainly a far weaker position from which to negotiate future deals with existing or speculative employers.

So can we now see and end to this "the players weren't trying" nonsense and general acceptance of Ian's far more sensible assessment please?

[Southbank Old Boy]

to repeat, maybe we didn't lose the game because the players weren't trying, i.e. a bad performance doesn't mean the players weren't trying.

But a performance showing a complete lack of commitment or effort might do? Certainly the reverse of your comment would be true.

Or when Reading play shite against a team that we could have and should have beaten, we must all pretend that the footballing gods had just decided it weren't to be our day?

Given Fulham's form it wasn't that surprising they beat us. Had they not got 3 other wins in the last 4 games then there is much more of an arguement for us not trying. But we got beaten by a team with more drive, determination and better morale. A Team boosted by the return of two of it's star players.

I was at the Fulham game and I don't think you could accuse many of our players of not trying. Being clueless and hopelessly out of form and confidence is a different matter. I don't think they were playing at top gear, but I don't see that it necessarily means they weren't trying. It is a bit of a case of semantics though.

That form Fulham were showing was losing at home to Sunderland, drawing at Derby, losing to Newcastle (the Geordies first win in three months or something), a good home win over Everton preceeded by defeats by Man U, West Ham, and Middlesbrough.

Cracking form they were showing!

Them beating us gave them a slight life line. They were as good as dead and burried until City capitulated and gave them 3 points they should never have got, the rest is history.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

to repeat, maybe we didn't lose the game because the players weren't trying, i.e. a bad performance doesn't mean the players weren't trying.

But a performance showing a complete lack of commitment or effort might do? Certainly the reverse of your comment would be true.

Or when Reading play shite against a team that we could have and should have beaten, we must all pretend that the footballing gods had just decided it weren't to be our day?

I was at the Fulham game and I don't think you could accuse many of our players of not trying. Being clueless and hopelessly out of form and confidence is a different matter. I don't think they were playing at top gear, but I don't see that it necessarily means they weren't trying. It is a bit of a case of semantics though.

I don't think it's semantics. It's people who just make the knee-jerk reaction of assuming that a poor performance means the players weren't trying. Probably the kind of people who boo players who are having a bad game, thinking it'll motivate them.

Don't get me wrong, I thought the Fulham game was completely crap and I certainly wasn't giving them a standing ovation at the final whistle, but it had been pretty much all Reading until they scored and the goal just killed our morale and gave them a massive boost. We ended the season as a team without belief, with our tactics completely failing to produce any reward. I'd say if anything we tried considerably harder in the second half of the season than the first. It's just that with so many players off form and devoid of confidence, we weren't working hard in ways that were beneficial to the team, e.g. Kitson and Doyle repeatedly moving out to the wings to put in the crosses that the wingers weren't delivering, defenders surging forward out of position to make tackles the midfielders aren't making because they are out of position.


Or maybe the players hadn't realised Reading might go down, so they didn't try.

[Denver Royal]

Acknowledge his contribution by all means. However, to suggest that contribution was made purely through philanthropical motives and without any thought of what he might get in return is so utterly stupid as to be more than somewhat staggering.

im not sure, as i havent gone back through to check, you can if you like
but im sure you will struggle to find any serious posters saying anything of the sort

By the same token, have you ever seen anyone say anything like the following?:

Madejski is quite obviously a complete oxf*rd for rescuing the club, supporting it financially for more than a decade, establishing a solid infrastructure from which it can continue to build, and for seeing the result of his investments and vision take us to the Premier League because actually he was only ever in it for his own personal gain and everything he has ever said was actually complete bollocks.

The man is a complete and utter oxf*rd and I wish he'd never got involved as I was more than happy at Elm Park hovering around the Brentfords, Bournemouths and Rochdales of this world.

[Royal Rother]

Sorry Denver, that just doesn't work.

JM did rescue the club, did support it for more than a decade, did establish a solid infrastructure, and did take us to the PL.

And yes, on many occasions people have said he was only in it for personal gain and that he does talk bollocks all the time.

But nobody has ever said he only did it for philanthropic reasons.

[brendywendy]

Acknowledge his contribution by all means. However, to suggest that contribution was made purely through philanthropical motives and without any thought of what he might get in return is so utterly stupid as to be more than somewhat staggering.

im not sure, as i havent gone back through to check, you can if you like
but im sure you will struggle to find any serious posters saying anything of the sort

By the same token, have you ever seen anyone say anything like the following?:

Madejski is quite obviously a complete oxf*rd for rescuing the club, supporting it financially for more than a decade, establishing a solid infrastructure from which it can continue to build, and for seeing the result of his investments and vision take us to the Premier League because actually he was only ever in it for his own personal gain and everything he has ever said was actually complete bollocks.

The man is a complete and utter oxf*rd and I wish he'd never got involved as I was more than happy at Elm Park hovering around the Brentfords, Bournemouths and Rochdales of this world.

yes, not all in one post probably, but the above in one form or another has ben said on here ad infinitum

[BR2]

I agree. It's just silliness of the highest order to suggest the players were not trying. Even If the only thing that motivates them is money they would still be trying their balls off in the knowledge that relegation would mean, it appears, a 40% reduction in their salary, and certainly a far weaker position from which to negotiate future deals with existing or speculative employers.

So can we now see and end to this "the players weren't trying" nonsense and general acceptance of Ian's far more sensible assessment please?

My post on this was rather tongue-in-cheek because of the %s being banded about and my maths were that with 3% improvement over the season we would have got the one extra point to prevent relegation.
It's a fine line between not trying hard enough and not being good enough to get one more point.
My own view is that people like Dillon foolishly standing like King Canute and spouting that we would finish 12th because he was good at predicting that sort of thing may have caused the players to be just as arrogant and not actually face up to the threat of relegation until it really was too late-thus 40% earnings reductions that would have been avoided by gaining just one more point and we would all be happily facing a further season at the very least in the top flight.

[RichieBowman]

Sorry Denver, that just doesn't work.

JM did rescue the club, did support it for more than a decade, did establish a solid infrastructure, and did take us to the PL.

And yes, on many occasions people have said he was only in it for personal gain and that he does talk bollocks all the time.

But nobody has ever said he only did it for philanthropic reasons.

Quite honestly, im a bit sick of Madejski and his yes men forever saying how he saved the club. You say he has not done it to become a philanthropist’s bloody hell he has never grown tired about talking about the money he has put into the club. Madejski has only lent the club money not given it. How much money has he made from his investment in Reading F.C and from within the town. Also he has generated a lot of self-publicity from his involvement with the club. The trouble with Madejski is that he wants to be seen as a saviour of Reading but will not sell the club unless he receives a significant fund for Reading Football Club. Why does the club not look for more investors to join the club as board members to generate more revenue into the club or have supporters on the board to generate some investment as Charlton Athletic have ....the reason is because its Madejski's club and he lets us know it. I will be grateful for his input into Reading Football club but he is not bigger than the club and I think people should remember that.

[79Royal]

Sorry Denver, that just doesn't work.

JM did rescue the club, did support it for more than a decade, did establish a solid infrastructure, and did take us to the PL.

And yes, on many occasions people have said he was only in it for personal gain and that he does talk bollocks all the time.

But nobody has ever said he only did it for philanthropic reasons.

Quite honestly, im a bit sick of Madejski and his yes men forever saying how he saved the club. You say he has not done it to become a philanthropist’s bloody hell he has never grown tired about talking about the money he has put into the club. Madejski has only lent the club money not given it. How much money has he made from his investment in Reading F.C and from within the town. Also he has generated a lot of self-publicity from his involvement with the club. The trouble with Madejski is that he wants to be seen as a saviour of Reading but will not sell the club unless he receives a significant fund for Reading Football Club. Why does the club not look for more investors to join the club as board members to generate more revenue into the club or have supporters on the board to generate some investment as Charlton Athletic have ....the reason is because its Madejski's club and he lets us know it. I will be grateful for his input into Reading Football club but he is not bigger than the club and I think people should remember that.

Who said Madejski is bigger than Reading FC?

The one constant over the past 18 years has been Madejski and that period has seen the most succesful era in our history. The facts speak for themselves.

[Tilehurst Mike]

Sorry Denver, that just doesn't work.

JM did rescue the club, did support it for more than a decade, did establish a solid infrastructure, and did take us to the PL.

And yes, on many occasions people have said he was only in it for personal gain and that he does talk bollocks all the time.

But nobody has ever said he only did it for philanthropic reasons.

Quite honestly, im a bit sick of Madejski and his yes men forever saying how he saved the club. You say he has not done it to become a philanthropist’s bloody hell he has never grown tired about talking about the money he has put into the club. Madejski has only lent the club money not given it. How much money has he made from his investment in Reading F.C and from within the town. Also he has generated a lot of self-publicity from his involvement with the club. The trouble with Madejski is that he wants to be seen as a saviour of Reading but will not sell the club unless he receives a significant fund for Reading Football Club. Why does the club not look for more investors to join the club as board members to generate more revenue into the club or have supporters on the board to generate some investment as Charlton Athletic have ....the reason is because its Madejski's club and he lets us know it. I will be grateful for his input into Reading Football club but he is not bigger than the club and I think people should remember that.

Very well said. AS much as Madjeski has done for the club over the past umpteen years and for the huge success of the past three seasons, it is because of his unrealistic and ludicrous wage restaints that have ultimately cost us our place in the Premiership and Coppell nearly his job. You only have to look at the wages being talked about to pay their transfer targets by Hull and Stoke to realise that their respectice Chairmen/owners seem more clued up about the realism of life in the Premiership than Madjeski ever will

[RichieBowman]

Sorry Denver, that just doesn't work.

JM did rescue the club, did support it for more than a decade, did establish a solid infrastructure, and did take us to the PL.

And yes, on many occasions people have said he was only in it for personal gain and that he does talk bollocks all the time.

But nobody has ever said he only did it for philanthropic reasons.

Quite honestly, im a bit sick of Madejski and his yes men forever saying how he saved the club. You say he has not done it to ecome a philanthropist’s bloody hell he has never grown tired about talking about the money he has put into the club. Madejski has only lent the club money not given it. How much money has he made from his investment in Reading F.C and from within the town. Also he has generated a lot of self-publicity from his involvement with the club. The trouble with Madejski is that he wants to be seen as a saviour of Reading but will not sell the club unless he receives a significant fund for Reading Football Club. Why does the club not look for more investors to join the club as board members to generate more revenue into the club or have supporters on the board to generate some investment as Charlton Athletic have ....the reason is because its Madejski's club and he lets us know it. I will be grateful for his input into Reading Football club but he is not bigger than the club and I think people should remember that.

Who said Madejski is bigger than Reading FC?

The one constant over the past 18 years has been Madejski and that period has seen the most succesful era in our history. The facts speak for themselves.

I do not dispute that the last three years have been the most successful in the clubs history. My point was that it annoys me that Madejski or Howe constantly mentions how much money Madejski has invested in the club. Reading was in the richest league in the world for two seasons and how much revenue was generated by TV money, season tickets, merchandise and shirt sales ?. The club should be able to live of the revenue, which has been generated, and Madejski or Howe should not patronise the fans as if we are some needy serf being constantly gratefully to Madejski. He has only lent the club the money not given it!!

[Ian Royal]

Clubs should be able to live on revenue. But they can't. It's pretty simple. Why do you think we've only made 2 seasons profit in the last 10 years despite paying lowish wages and lowish transfer fees?

We're one of the best run clubs in the country and we still make losses bar stupid premier league income FFS.