Back from the Watford game...

[Sun Tzu]

Ultimately all the effective stuff came from us and Cisse and Harper obviously played their part in that but at times we looked out-numbered in midfield.

We WERE outnumbered . They played 4-5-1 meaning 3 versus 2 in central areas. It was also interesting to note that they switched to 4-4-2 to chase the game in the 65th minute and we then scored 3 goals in the last 25 minutes. In fact, we've pretty much hammered any side that has played 4-4-2 against us including Wolves and Brum.
Part of the reason we've conceded so few goals is that sides are going to find it hard to create chances with only one up front. At the same time, 4-5-1 is difficult to break down hence our perceived dip in form in recent weeks.
I'll be very interested to see if Wolves stick to 4-4-2 against us in a couple of weeks.

Doesn't the 451 mean our full backs are penned back rather than rampaging forward (a key part of our wide attacking style). 442 means the full backs don't have to worry so much about the opposition wide men so are more of an attacking force.

[rotherwick_royal]

Best of luck...just beat the teams around us because we need some hope!

No worries, we'll stuff Saints for you.

Oh!

Maybe the scoreline was flattering but then I thought we deserved to be more than 1-0 up at HT. Think a lot of people on here are overly critical, I thought we were always in control of the game.

[Dirk Gently]

When played properly, and with the right players, you're only 4-5-1 when you're defending. As soon as you go on the attack the 4-5-1 turns into a 4-3-3.

Having said that, the majority of teams who come to us playing 4-5-1 don't have the players to make the above work, and are playing it wholly defensively, in an attempt to stifle us in midfield.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

Ultimately all the effective stuff came from us and Cisse and Harper obviously played their part in that but at times we looked out-numbered in midfield.

We WERE outnumbered . They played 4-5-1 meaning 3 versus 2 in central areas. It was also interesting to note that they switched to 4-4-2 to chase the game in the 65th minute and we then scored 3 goals in the last 25 minutes. In fact, we've pretty much hammered any side that has played 4-4-2 against us including Wolves and Brum.
Part of the reason we've conceded so few goals is that sides are going to find it hard to create chances with only one up front. At the same time, 4-5-1 is difficult to break down hence our perceived dip in form in recent weeks.
I'll be very interested to see if Wolves stick to 4-4-2 against us in a couple of weeks.

Doesn't the 451 mean our full backs are penned back rather than rampaging forward (a key part of our wide attacking style). 442 means the full backs don't have to worry so much about the opposition wide men so are more of an attacking force.

Yes, when we have the ball. Their wide men will engage the full backs when they push on, their full backs will engage our wingers and one of the central 3 midfielders will sit in front of their back 4.
It's when they have the ball that we'll see a direct 3 v 2 match up centrally. The opposition will look to push one of the wide men forward as a winger (Croft for Norwich is a good example) and one central man will push on to support the front man when possible. Something that Harper generally deals with by playing slightly deeper than Cisse
We deal with the 3 v 2 by generally defending areas as opposed to going man for man. If you watch Harper and Cisse they'll defend central areas as part of a midfield four and pass players on as opposed to tracking them into wide / advanced areas.
We are actually very good at it because the whole side is fully attuned to the way that we play

[Sun Tzu]

We WERE outnumbered . They played 4-5-1 meaning 3 versus 2 in central areas. It was also interesting to note that they switched to 4-4-2 to chase the game in the 65th minute and we then scored 3 goals in the last 25 minutes. In fact, we've pretty much hammered any side that has played 4-4-2 against us including Wolves and Brum.
Part of the reason we've conceded so few goals is that sides are going to find it hard to create chances with only one up front. At the same time, 4-5-1 is difficult to break down hence our perceived dip in form in recent weeks.
I'll be very interested to see if Wolves stick to 4-4-2 against us in a couple of weeks.

Doesn't the 451 mean our full backs are penned back rather than rampaging forward (a key part of our wide attacking style). 442 means the full backs don't have to worry so much about the opposition wide men so are more of an attacking force.

Yes, when we have the ball. Their wide men will engage the full backs when they push on, their full backs will engage our wingers and one of the central 3 midfielders will sit in front of their back 4.
It's when they have the ball that we'll see a direct 3 v 2 match up centrally. The opposition will look to push one of the wide men forward as a winger (Croft for Norwich is a good example) and one central man will push on to support the front man when possible. Something that Harper generally deals with by playing slightly deeper than Cisse
We deal with the 3 v 2 by generally defending areas as opposed to going man for man. If you watch Harper and Cisse they'll defend central areas as part of a midfield four and pass players on as opposed to tracking them into wide / advanced areas.
We are actually very good at it because the whole side is fully attuned to the way that we play

Ollie, thanks for that. You seem to know your stuff ! Always find your analysis interesting....

[OLLIE KEARNS]

No problem Sun Tzu. Any time

[Victor Meldrew]

I owe you an apology Vic Meldrew.

Sorry old chap for my little outburst. It was uncalled for. I was a little bit excited! So I shall go and remove it.

Can we make up?

Apology not necessary but good of you to say so.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I was annoyed that I had to miss going to a game yet again (can't drive in the dark at the moment due to an eye problem) where we won and so had to watch on TV and the only atmosphere was created by me as the missus watched Trial and Tribulation on the other side.
So far this season the only away games I have been able to go to are:-
Ipswich (lost-Hunty terrible)
Charlton (lost-Hunty terrible)
Saints( lost-Hunty terrible)
The last 2 home games that I could go to:-
Saints (lost-Hunty not very good)
Cardiff (drew-Hunty not very good)
So you can see I may be a bit blinkered about the player as I haven't seen many of his good games.
Also with my most recent record I'm a bit of a Jonah so in the fans' interests and the club's I shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get back although I am desperate to be there.

[papereyes]

When played properly, and with the right players, you're only 4-5-1 when you're defending. As soon as you go on the attack the 4-5-1 turns into a 4-3-3.

Having said that, the majority of teams who come to us playing 4-5-1 don't have the players to make the above work, and are playing it wholly defensively, in an attempt to stifle us in midfield.

Not necessarily - the Premiership incarnation is very much a 4-5-1. Lump up front, five 'hardworking' midfielders. Pain pain pain pain pain.

[Archie's penalty]

The last 2 home games that I could go to:-
Saints (lost-Hunty not very good)
Cardiff (drew-Hunty not very good)
So you can see I may be a bit blinkered about the player as I haven't seen many of his good games.
Also with my most recent record I'm a bit of a Jonah so in the fans' interests and the club's I shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get back although I am desperate to be there.

I also have only been to the Cardiff and Southampton games at home. Feel like a bit of a jinx to be honest.

Still the away games I have been to are Watford and Barnsley so I feel a bit better about them

[Dirk Gently]

When played properly, and with the right players, you're only 4-5-1 when you're defending. As soon as you go on the attack the 4-5-1 turns into a 4-3-3.

Having said that, the majority of teams who come to us playing 4-5-1 don't have the players to make the above work, and are playing it wholly defensively, in an attempt to stifle us in midfield.

Not necessarily - the Premiership incarnation is very much a 4-5-1. Lump up front, five 'hardworking' midfielders. Pain pain pain pain pain.

Hence the "with the right players" comment.

[Pool and Darts]

The last 2 home games that I could go to:-
Saints (lost-Hunty not very good)
Cardiff (drew-Hunty not very good)
So you can see I may be a bit blinkered about the player as I haven't seen many of his good games.
Also with my most recent record I'm a bit of a Jonah so in the fans' interests and the club's I shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get back although I am desperate to be there.

I also have only been to the Cardiff and Southampton games at home. Feel like a bit of a jinx to be honest.

Still the away games I have been to are Watford and Barnsley so I feel a bit better about them

On the plus side, I have only been to one game so far and that was Sheff Wed

My next one is.... Wolves! So we are bound to win.

[Ian Royal]

Ian - how can you rate Doyle higher than N Hunt? Personally, I thought N Hunt had a cracker of a game. Saw more of him than Doyle... Nevermind. Opinions, and all that!

Because absolutely everything that went to him, regardless of whether he had 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 Watford players around him, was skillfully brought down, and either laid off to a Reading player, or used to run at the defence.

NHunt worked hard and is a very very good buy, but he is half the player Doyle is right now. That still makes him one of the better strikers in the Championship mind.

Kebe is an irritating enigma. Sometimes he tackles back really well, sometimes he gets on the end of headers really well (unless it's to score). Other times he just stands and watches or runs away from a challenge. His decision making is atrocious as well.

He'd much rather take on his full back and beat him 3 times than cross the ball. Unfortunately, by the time he's stopped shimmying the defender has usually managed to untie his legs and get in the way of the 4th attempt or the cross.

He produces, very very little. At least he did in that game. Once he can get over the need to beat his man as much as possible and realises all he needs to do is work the space to put in a cross he'll be unstoppable. Until then, he's a bizarre cross between total liability and very dangerous. And it was a penalty as RR said, although I'm not suprised the ref didn't give it.

Lita. Frankly was poor. He got fantastic support, whch I completely agree with. But that header was unbelievable. He was free with no one anywhere near him, had acres of time and he missed by miles, with no power. If he hadn't have scored later, he should have been lynched.

Still a better sub than Long though.

[Sarah Star]

I was annoyed that I had to miss going to a game yet again (can't drive in the dark at the moment due to an eye problem) where we won and so had to watch on TV and the only atmosphere was created by me as the missus watched Trial and Tribulation on the other side.
So far this season the only away games I have been able to go to are:-
Ipswich (lost-Hunty terrible)
Charlton (lost-Hunty terrible)
Saints( lost-Hunty terrible)
The last 2 home games that I could go to:-
Saints (lost-Hunty not very good)
Cardiff (drew-Hunty not very good)
So you can see I may be a bit blinkered about the player as I haven't seen many of his good games.
Also with my most recent record I'm a bit of a Jonah so in the fans' interests and the club's I shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get back although I am desperate to be there.

You might be getting your luck back without realising it as we drew to Saints away.

[papereyes]

When played properly, and with the right players, you're only 4-5-1 when you're defending. As soon as you go on the attack the 4-5-1 turns into a 4-3-3.

Having said that, the majority of teams who come to us playing 4-5-1 don't have the players to make the above work, and are playing it wholly defensively, in an attempt to stifle us in midfield.

Not necessarily - the Premiership incarnation is very much a 4-5-1. Lump up front, five 'hardworking' midfielders. Pain pain pain pain pain.

Hence the "with the right players" comment.

I fear what the Premiership incarnation wants is what I described and to hold it tight. They mean to play like this.

[Sarah Star]

I did put a post on here, but it seems to have disappeared. No matter, it didn't say much. All I wanted to know was why Simon Church was warming up with the team but not on the bench or playing.

[winchester_royal]

I did put a post on here, but it seems to have disappeared. No matter, it didn't say much. All I wanted to know was why Simon Church was warming up with the team but not on the bench or playing.

We often do this with our young players.

[Victor Meldrew]

The last 2 home games that I could go to:-
Saints (lost-Hunty not very good)
Cardiff (drew-Hunty not very good)
So you can see I may be a bit blinkered about the player as I haven't seen many of his good games.
Also with my most recent record I'm a bit of a Jonah so in the fans' interests and the club's I shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get back although I am desperate to be there.

I also have only been to the Cardiff and Southampton games at home. Feel like a bit of a jinx to be honest.

Still the away games I have been to are Watford and Barnsley so I feel a bit better about them

Forgot the Watford game so you can see I have yet to see us win away-the good news is that I'm not going to Swansea.

[Sarah Star]

I did put a post on here, but it seems to have disappeared. No matter, it didn't say much. All I wanted to know was why Simon Church was warming up with the team but not on the bench or playing.

We often do this with our young players.

I just don't remember us doing it before...well, not in the last year anyway.

Victor, you've seen us draw away. You're working your way up to a win.

[Ian Royal]

I did put a post on here, but it seems to have disappeared. No matter, it didn't say much. All I wanted to know was why Simon Church was warming up with the team but not on the bench or playing.

We often do this with our young players.

I just don't remember us doing it before...well, not in the last year anyway.

Victor, you've seen us draw away. You're working your way up to a win.

Loads of them have been on loan.

[Sarah Star]

I know, which might be why I don't remember seeing it before , but why do it at all?