Sshh! It's how we operate.

[Agent Balti]

How old was Tony Book when he left non-league to play for Man City? 29?

How about Stuart Pearce?

2 players out of several thousands ever to play the game. Not really decent counters to an argument.

And besides, Stuart Pearce was all commitment and menace - that's not just 'talent'. Not really a good comparison to dear ol' Kebe!

[CMRoyal]

If Kebe consistently failed to make those runs or consistently failed to beat defenders with his tricks etc then I'd agree with you. The fact that he manages it in some games and not in others suggests to me that there's something that can be worked on - judgement or skill or something, I'm not sure what. It may be that he'll always be like that, but it might be that he just needs help to develop in a way that he's not been taught before. That's my view anyway.

I'd love to believe you, seriously I would. But I can't see it...as Dirk says, it's much like the Darren Caskey situation of old...if he could actually have some pace...if he wasn't so fat...he'd be truly awesome. And if that was the case, he wouldn't be with us in the first place. Players find their level...and this is Kebe's very, very top level. However, a players development is pretty much cemented early in their careers...only experience helps you after that (and your team mates), if the kinks in Kebe are ironed out (ironing board not advisable) then good on him, but with all the crossed fingers and gnashing of teeth - I just don't buy it.

How old was Tony Book when he left non-league to play for Man City? 29?

How about Stuart Pearce?

Yeah, Book was extraordinary, although I think he went to Plymouth first? But he was about 83 when he won Footballer of the Year with Man City, wasn't he? OK, maybe he was about 34 or so.

Pearce was relatively young in comparison - 21 or 22. Similar to Ian Wright.

[Hoop Blah]

Isn't it the reverse of what you're saying though? It's the players need to read where Marek is trying to place the ball? I'm not advocating he's too good, I think Coppell under-utilised him and as such we never got the best out of him. If any player is in and out of the side then we would never see the best. (Still, taking him off in the 2nd leg v Burnley was a terrible, terrible decision by Coppell.)

Hopefully, Brendan will be able to make the midfield tick around Marek...he seems a more of a Rodgers player than a Coppell player to me.

As ever, it's probably a bit of both. Problem is though he could be spraying it all over the place but he has to fit into the way the team plays to be effective.

It has to be easier for one player to adjust slightly to his 10 team mates than it is the oher way round, and although he's played some absolutely sublime balls in the limited time he's been on the pitch he's played many more shocking balls. Some of them have been over ambitious and some have just been dreadfully poor.

I totally agree that Coppell didn't get the best out of him, and I can't understand why Coppell even signed him to be honest, but I think Rodgers style of football could see him flourish this season....if we keep him that is!

[Snowball]

You're right about Psycho, Interestingly I thought he was about 26!

BOOK was non-league until 28, 30 when he arrived at Man City!

Professional career

At the close of the 1962–63 season, Allison received an offer to coach Canadian team Toronto City over the summer and took Book with him. Though Allison left after a short time to take up a position at Plymouth Argyle, Book stayed three months, in which time he was voted the best full-back in Canada.[6]

Upon his return to England, Book was signed for Plymouth by Allison for a fee of £1,500, and Book entered the Football League for the first time at the age of 30, though Plymouth believed him to be 28 - Allison had advised Book to doctor his birth certificate as he thought the Plymouth board would not pay £1,500 for a 30 year old.[7] After making 81 league appearances, Book followed Malcolm Allison again to Manchester City two years later, this time for a transfer fee of £17,000.[8] Manager Joe Mercer was initially reluctant to spend such a fee on a player over 30 years old, but was persuaded after Allison pointed out that Mercer's career had included a successful move at a similar age, when he joined Everton from Arsenal aged 32.[9]

Book prospered under the management of Mercer and Allison. He made his Manchester City debut in the opening match of the 1966–67 season, a 1–1 draw with Southampton,[8] and became a near-permanent fixture in the team. In his first season at the club he missed just one game,[10] becoming the inaugural winner of the club's Player of the Year award[11] in a season in which the club consolidated their position following promotion.

In the 1967 close season, Book was named captain following the transfer of previous captain Johnny Crossan to Middlesbrough, and was henceforth nicknamed Skip by his teammates. His first season as captain was a very successful one, leading Manchester City to their second league championship and playing every game. An Achilles injury sidelined Book for the first four months of the 1968–69 season, but he returned to the team in time for the start of their FA Cup run. In the week preceding the cup final, Book was named the 1969 Football Writers' Association Footballer of the Year Award, sharing the accolade with Dave Mackay.[12] The following Saturday Manchester City played Leicester in the FA Cup final. Manchester City won 1–0, and captain Book lifted the trophy. The following season City became the first team to win a European and domestic trophy in the same season, the European Cup Winners' Cup and the League Cup. Book retired from playing in 1974,[10] passing the captaincy to Colin Bell. He made 242 football league appearances for the club, and is City's most successful captain in terms of trophies won.

[Agent Balti]

Relevance in posting that? Not a lot.

[CMRoyal]

You're right about Psycho, Interestingly I thought he was about 26!

BOOK was non-league until 28, 30 when he arrived at Man City!

Funnily enough though, there's a player closer to home that might offer hope to those of us who would like to see Kebe have a more positive influence. Step forward the man clutched from the jaws of a Bradford freebie in order to be reserve to Bobby Convey. Whether you like his current attitude or not, he did well for himself as a relatively late developer.

[Snowball]

I tried Googling "late-developing footballers: and I see that Arsenal's Andre Arshavin, is considered to be a late-developer and so was Luca Toni (28). Puskas was 31 when he went to Real Madrid. Stanley Matthews won his first trophy aged 38.

Tony Adams had success early but then "bloomed again" in his thirties


http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2009/ ... -top-five/

Miroslav Klose didn't get first-team football until he was 23

Andrei Arshavin is an attacking midfielder for Russia and Arsenal in the English Premier League. He can play in any of the advanced attacking positions, though his magical touches are usually at their best in the centre of the pitch, where he can operate in the ‘hole’ between attack and midfield. He has a superb touch and vision, but was a late developing footballer, much like Zinedine Zidane, who has seen his best form come only as he reached his late twenties.

[Snowball]

Relevance in posting that? Not a lot.

Dear, dear.

The discussion is whether the POTENTIALLY brilliant Kebe, can still learn and become a great player

That leads us to consider "late-developing players" like Tony Book, Arshavin, Zidane, Klose, Puskas and even S Hunt.

Sorry, we haven't got a four-word sound-byte for you.


IMO Kebe could be made into a very good player. The "problem" might be taking his eye of the ball, trying to be TOO quick, even an eyesight issue (and possibly, "bottle") but POTENTIALLY, if he can be made to do the good stuff twice as often and the bad stuff half as often he could win us this league.

Rodgers will sort him or sell him.

[Agent Balti]

Relevance in posting that? Not a lot.

Dear, dear.

The discussion is whether the POTENTIALLY brilliant Kebe, can still learn and become a great player

That leads us to consider "late-developing players" like Tony Book, Arshavin, Zidane, Klose, Puskas and even S Hunt.

Sorry, we haven't got a four-word sound-byte for you.


IMO Kebe could be made into a very good player. The "problem" might be taking his eye of the ball, trying to be TOO quick, even an eyesight issue (and possibly, "bottle") but POTENTIALLY, if he can be made to do the good stuff twice as often and the bad stuff half as often he could win us this league.

Rodgers will sort him or sell him.

Kebe's not a late developer! He's played in France and in England! He's actually achieved it...not got there late in his career. How good he is was the point, not going all Captain Tangent on us via players that have zero relevance to RFC.

[brendywendy]

we operate on potential
which he has bags of, thats why we bought him
it was up to coppell, and now rodgers to try and squeeze every last ounce out of the lad to become a great player, then sell him for a massive profit
if he doesnt produce consistently this season then he'll be offski ASAP

[russyb]

and wasn't it mentioned somewhere how well BR had transformed some of the watford players in the short space of time he was there? so it bodes well for the devlopment of our players maybe....

[Cookie]

Start by taking a quick look at the Coca Cola Championship page on the BBC website and you'll see that everyone who's anybody in The Championship (and those who are not) are all in a frenzy of activity preparing for the new season. There is activity everywhere.

Even Blackpool! And they're close to signing Charlie Adam from Rangers, a player The Chronicle believed that we were on the verge of snapping up.

Wakey-wakey Reading.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/default.stm

Whilst it's clearly failed to register on your Richter scale, this club has already made it's most significant signings of the close season.

We've replaced Steve Coppell and his entire management team, who were nothing short of a disaster for this club over the last two seasons as they succeeded only in destroying the spectacular progress made in the previous two.

What we needed more than anything else this summer was someone who could get the best out of the remnants of our Premiership squad and the best bunch of youngster this club has ever had.....................that wasn't Steve Coppell and we should all be praying it's Brendan Rodgers.

The time to spend the bulk of the Doyle money will be in January, by which time, the inevitable injuries plus those failing to live up to expectations will need to be addressed.

In the meantime, it will be more a case of offloading those we can no longer afford and thanking Steve Coppell everytime we see Doyler in his Wolves kit. £1.5 million is a lot of money at this this level for a 29 year old striker but I suspect BR will get his man and that will be the major acquisition for now.....................who else do we need that won't deny the chances so many of our youngsters deserve?

It comes as a huge relief to me that I'm looking forward to sitting my seat for the first time in months having been force fed our appalling decline of the last 2 seasons....................bring it on.

I rate this post 4 on the Beaufort Scale.

[Woodcote Royal]

You are joking WR, following our relegation last season was perfect for SJM, we made the play-offs relatively easily, we averaged just under 20k at home, we appeared on TV a lot, all brought more money into the club, and we failed to go up, meaning that this is the year for promotion.

In the perfect business world the business took in more money than it payed out, as will be shown by the accounts for the year ending 2009 when released.

If you knew slightly more than zilch about our Chairman's approach to business, you would know that he leaves short termism to others and prefers his "brick by brick" method.

Back in the real world, he didn't spend 20 years getting this club to the top flight for it to be relegated 2 years later.

Furthermore, to suggest that he would risk the financial meltdown that awaits us when the parachute payments run out, in 12 months time, for one decent set of books, says everything about how little you know about the man.

Add this to the fact that he stands to rake in far more if/when he sells the club as a Premiership concern (not to mention 3 seasons of lost Premiership revenue and counting ) and I would say it's you who is having a laugh here.

[Cookie]

You are joking WR, following our relegation last season was perfect for SJM, we made the play-offs relatively easily, we averaged just under 20k at home, we appeared on TV a lot, all brought more money into the club, and we failed to go up, meaning that this is the year for promotion.

In the perfect business world the business took in more money than it payed out, as will be shown by the accounts for the year ending 2009 when released.

If you knew slightly more than zilch about our Chairman's approach to business, you would know that he leaves short termism to others and prefers his "brick by brick" method.

Back in the real world, he didn't spend 20 years getting this club to the top flight for it to be relegated 2 years later.

Furthermore, to suggest that he would risk the financial meltdown that awaits us when the parachute payments run out, in 12 months time, for one decent set of books, says everything about how little you know about the man.

Add this to the fact that he stands to rake in far more if/when he sells the club as a Premiership concern (not to mention 3 seasons of lost Premiership revenue and counting ) and I would say it's you who is having a laugh here.

Hey I found your T-shirt Mr. Woodcote Royal!

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

No one will buy RFC, for the very reason that it is JM that is selling it.

How many clubs have been taken over since it was known that a new owner was required?

The team was built in a brick by brick fashion, and has been dismantled in the same way, no real mass exodus like in 95.

JM believes that footballers are overpaid and over priced, he has said so on many an occasions, remember we need £11m extra this season to balance the books, don't expect any high money signings.

Do expect a couple more to leave though, S Hunt, Bikey after his ban is over and maybe one or two more, 09/10 is a season for the youngsters, which might be no bad thing.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Furthermore, to suggest that he would risk the financial meltdown that awaits us when the parachute payments run out, in 12 months time, for one decent set of books, says everything about how little you know about the man.

There won't be a financial meltdown, as we are preparing for life at this level, same common sense, prepare for the worst, and hope for the best. We never prepared for Premier League football last time, but hoped it would occur, same as now.

With JM in charge we will not pay the fees or wages for name players, and the main reason is we cannot afford it.

[Ian Royal]

Woodcote, if you think Madejski didn't plan for, and expect relegation within a few seasons of the first promotion to the top flight you are a moron.

There are always surges up the league, followed by a brief plateau and fall. The trick is to make sure that each to you fall, it's to a position slightly higher than you were before the last surge and that the next surge takes you higher than the previous one.

That is currently being managed and has been for about the last 15-20 years.

[Wizard]

Woodcote, if you think Madejski didn't plan for, and expect relegation within a few seasons of the first promotion to the top flight you are a moron.

There are always surges up the league, followed by a brief plateau and fall. The trick is to make sure that each to you fall, it's to a position slightly higher than you were before the last surge and that the next surge takes you higher than the previous one.

That is currently being managed and has been for about the last 15-20 years.

Good point well made.

[Woodcote Royal]

Furthermore, to suggest that he would risk the financial meltdown that awaits us when the parachute payments run out, in 12 months time, for one decent set of books, says everything about how little you know about the man.

There won't be a financial meltdown, as we are preparing for life at this level, same common sense, prepare for the worst, and hope for the best. We never prepared for Premier League football last time, but hoped it would occur, same as now.

With JM in charge we will not pay the fees or wages for name players, and the main reason is we cannot afford it.

We won't go bust this still amounts to meltdown when compared to the financial outlook 2 years ago, including the loss of at least 3 seasons of Premiership revenue.

We need £11m to balance the books because our loss of Premiership status has already cost us atleast £60m.......................only Coppell apologists like Ian Royal would attempt to float the notion this was all part of some cunning plan by the Chairman.

What about the expansion plans for the stadium?

Was that just a means to attract prospective buyers or, genuine plans for long term establishment in the top flight?

Either way, this doesn't fit with our disastrous decline being just what the Chairman would have ordered in an ideal world.

In fact, this fails to fit with the way this club has been run over the last 20 years but, funnily enough, it fits perfectly with the notion that Steve Coppell was blameless for the last 2 seasons because it was all the Chairman's fault......................................and we have no shortage of morons who believe this to be the case.

[Woodcote Royal]

Hey I found your T-shirt Mr. Woodcote Royal!



Having that stuck up your backside must have been a tad uncomfortable