Rodgers is still the right man

[Mad Dog's Ghost]

Wish to heck I couldn't care whether we win, draw or lose.

Biggest question marks over BR at the moment must be the fact that the defence leaks like a sieve and he's already done £2.3m on a centre back who is deemed worse than Pearce and Ingi and a right back who we pretend doesn't exist any more.

[Dorset-Knob]

Arguing about the reasons are an academic waste of time, competitions are about winning not just taking part!

If there were a steady improvement, drawing instead of losing, winning instead of drawing, competing and growing in stature I would be less concerned, but this is clearly not the case, we continue to flirt with imminent disaster and random results IMHO

The reasons are not academic, they give some background and perspective to the current situation and the current financial limitations have a massive impact on what Rodgers can do and what we should expect him to be able to do

There has been a pretty steady improvement since the start of the season so not sure what your point is

Paraphrasing my post helps to lose the point, I'm saying, as are others, that to move from 'shockingly poor' to 'feeble' is not much of an achievement.

There has been no significant improvement, just a little and it doesn't fill me with confidence, check the table's bottom six and tell me we aren't as bad as the worst of them on any given day! with some evidence to the contrary.

Some fans are lowering their sights to match our lack of achievement and I believe the reasons behind the club's demise are academic because they cannot or will not be changed.

We are in a relegation battle now because we have not gone from losing to drawing, drawing to winning we are still a random results team and I've read else where that we shouldn't expect to win every game.

I think we should and consider we failed when we don't, rather than settling for mediocrity as a normal/ok level of achievement.

Accepting and dealing with failure is one thing, expecting it as being ok is just wrong!

[Alan Partridge]

It's what happens when the 'cloth has to be cut'. Reading have lost almost an entire squad, they haven't got the money to replace them so the younger players simply out of neccesisty have to be involved. Some have done well, others not so well. To be expected really with young players.

Problems stem, simply due to a lack of information, a complete void of any realism and from a huge sense of disappointment still from the relegation from the Premiership. I am not going to dwell on it because it's been done to death, in my opinion, Reading as a club didn't give themselves the best possible opportunity of staying up. It was there for them and they never took it. That's hugely demoralising as a fan whenyou see them work their balls off to get that far but in some ways almost didn't want it enough.

There's frustration from that, players have gone, the second half of last season was dire and again there has been a hangover from that. The one thing I applaud Rodgers on is he does want to play football. He wants his teams to pass it and to try and entertain the people paying a vast amount of money to get in the ground these days.

It's no ones fault but a collective dissappointment hanging around this club, there is no feel good factor. There is no sense of progression, no matter what utter horse shit they come out with this week in the papers, this is a relegation fight season and one where Reading are desperately hanging on to anything they can get this season. For a fan it was hard to see where the money had gone, the figures banded around the press of what a club rakes in for Premiership football for 2 years coupled with our lack of real expenditure on players while we were there, for us simple few simply didn't add up that suddenly everything and everyone must go. IT's been expalined somewhat since then, quite how truthful it all was is up for debate but without anything to argue it, it should be taken at face value.

Whoever took the job was going to find it hard, this was not the prize job it was when Coppell took it and Rodgers as a massively inexperienced manager will have his eyes widened at the end of it. He's made poor decisions at times, I think he tried to over complicate things at the start of the season, QPR was unacceptable, transition period or not, it was simply unacceptable but since then I feel he has more of an idea of what his team should be and it's got steadily better....before Saturday. I think that will be a trend, young players, new squad, new system, it simply is going to be up and down probably all season.

Its a tough one. I'm not convinced on a few of the younger lads sadly, i think one or two of his buys have been poor but I suppose we should expect that. It's tough for supporters that have (in the main) seen a succesfull and decent team here for the last 10 years really. It's been a steady progression every year since Pardew took the job, whereas now it's almost back to square one. That's hard for some to take, and I don't mean fairweather fans. I know a number of people that go to every game (home and away) still that have lost serious heart in the current state of the club and team. Deep down and if you were looking in from the outside, you simply say, transition season, loads of change in the squad, lots of young players what more do you expect, but when it's your team it's not as easy as that..you want to see them do well.

[sandman]

Shame you had to ruin a reasoned post with the last paragraph. Sorry to break this to you but winning is everything in football.And it's not just on the pitch. People behind the scenes lose their jobs if the team don't win. Some stewards for instance are already losing their jobs due to the falling attendances.

The team have been better recently but they need to make sure that Saturday was just a blip. Like it or not football is a results business and if you don't get them you're in trouble.

Well if we win then that means other teams lose so thereby by your reasoning stewards elsewhere lose their jobs no? :/ Of course the success on the pitch leads to a better club off the field but you can't run a football club and EXPECT your club to win, just the same way as a fan you shouldn't EXPECT to win every game.

Fans go to matches to be entertained and to enjoy the experience, whilst hoping for a win. However if winning was everything we wouldn't have had a club for 90% of our existance as the team rarely bloody won anything.

Despite the above I agree that these days football is a results business and BR needs to get results not just positive signs and improved displays. But at least in my mind right now I'm patient enough to see the big picture and accept that the club might sacrifice a few wins this year for more wins in the future.

Very petty.People at other clubs will lose their jobs but I was addressing your assertion that winning isn't everything.To the staff behind the scenes at our club and others this is simply untrue.No team can win every game and I wouldn't expect us to but you can't expect us to win in the future either especially in this league.What if the players don't develop as we hope? We would've wasted a lot of time and effort on hope.Once a team is in a rut it's difficult to get out again.

Back to Rodgers. When he was first suggested to me as a possible replacement for Coppell a few weeks after he took over Watford, I thought he would make a good Reading manager in the future but not as an immediate option. On what I've seen so far, I stand by this opinion.

[Dorset-Knob]

Top post Alan Partridge, very well reasoned and eloquent.

For many businesses if you can't afford to buy what you want, you are obliged to train people and hope they will blossom with you.

Our academy should fill that role and after ten years and how much cash spent, is it really successful?

We have seen players we would hope to retain, sold and that is to be expected & accepted, it happens to many companies who's trainees move on for more money and opportunity.

I agree that the combination of management inexperience, lack of cash, the inevitable failure of some trainees to make the grade, poor choices by said inexperienced manager etc has had a negative effect.

But, the club chose to make this their plan and policy and it was a poor error of judgement, too much revolution and not enough evolution in my view.

[Wimb]

Very petty.People at other clubs will lose their jobs but I was addressing your assertion that winning isn't everything.To the staff behind the scenes at our club and others this is simply untrue.No team can win every game and I wouldn't expect us to but you can't expect us to win in the future either especially in this league.What if the players don't develop as we hope? We would've wasted a lot of time and effort on hope.Once a team is in a rut it's difficult to get out again.

Back to Rodgers. When he was first suggested to me as a possible replacement for Coppell a few weeks after he took over Watford, I thought he would make a good Reading manager in the future but not as an immediate option. On what I've seen so far, I stand by this opinion.

I'm sorry it wasn't meant to be petty, only to point to the fact that there are only so many wins in football across the board and staff levels etc shouldn't be based on expecting to win.

Other then that I think we agree

Oh and top top post AP

[sandman]

Very petty.People at other clubs will lose their jobs but I was addressing your assertion that winning isn't everything.To the staff behind the scenes at our club and others this is simply untrue.No team can win every game and I wouldn't expect us to but you can't expect us to win in the future either especially in this league.What if the players don't develop as we hope? We would've wasted a lot of time and effort on hope.Once a team is in a rut it's difficult to get out again.

Back to Rodgers. When he was first suggested to me as a possible replacement for Coppell a few weeks after he took over Watford, I thought he would make a good Reading manager in the future but not as an immediate option. On what I've seen so far, I stand by this opinion.

I'm sorry it wasn't meant to be petty, only to point to the fact that there are only so many wins in football across the board and staff levels etc shouldn't be based on expecting to win.

Other then that I think we agree

Oh and top top post AP

Fairy nuff.

[RobRoyal]

The fact we're back relying on Long says everything

Eh? Relying on him so much he's started how many games?

[Yellowcoat]

Good post AP but a couple of points in it sum up the situation for me. You rightly mention the supposed riches in the Premier League, banded about by the media, but many wrongly assume the large figures mentioned as being true for all clubs. You also state that we did not have much higher levels of expenditure whilst there but this is clearly not true from the accounts issued so far. Failure by many to accept these basic facts has led to unrealistic expectations.

[Alan Partridge]

Good post AP but a couple of points in it sum up the situation for me. You rightly mention the supposed riches in the Premier League, banded about by the media, but many wrongly assume the large figures mentioned as being true for all clubs. You also state that we did not have much higher levels of expenditure whilst there but this is clearly not true from the accounts issued so far. Failure by many to accept these basic facts has led to unrealistic expectations.

I did mention that as to why as you say there may be unrealistic expectations. In the media, local and national, figures are banded about as to how much the PL is worth, £90million, £100million all this nonsense. Now if there is no one denying it in an offcial capacity (as there wasn't at the time) then again these figures are taken as fact by some fans. Followed by a firesale there was confusion. I then mentioned that the club did eventually bring out as you say a financial review almost and told us where vast amounts of money went. Now the ultimate simple view is £100million in, and next to none spent on players = confusion. As we know that isn't the case.

[Yellowcoat]

Yes that is the problem. Trouble is it would not be in the interests of RFC to issue figures all the time rather than through the normal accounting methods.

[Southbank Old Boy]

AP, the majority of the money did go on players, right into the existing ones pockets!

Dorset, I wasnt changing you point, just highlighting that if you dont look at the real climate Rodgers is working in you cant judge his success or lack of it. Personally I think he is doing an OK job so far, with all things considered. It could be a whole lot better, and I really wish it was, but when you compare his record now against that of Coppells with far greater resources it isnt as bad as some on here would make out, and I dont think sacking him would help

Dorset, I agree with you about the error being in the club making a decision to cut the cloth, which is exactly why your blaming Rodgers and calling for his head is not taking into account the "excuses" you said were irrelevant and "an academic waste of time"

[Dorset-Knob]

AP, the majority of the money did go on players, right into the existing ones pockets!

Dorset, I wasnt changing you point, just highlighting that if you dont look at the real climate Rodgers is working in you cant judge his success or lack of it. Personally I think he is doing an OK job so far, with all things considered. It could be a whole lot better, and I really wish it was, but when you compare his record now against that of Coppells with far greater resources it isnt as bad as some on here would make out, and I dont think sacking him would help

Dorset, I agree with you about the error being in the club making a decision to cut the cloth, which is exactly why your blaming Rodgers and calling for his head is not taking into account the "excuses" you said were irrelevant and "an academic waste of time"

You don't think there's any danger of it being left too late then?

At what point in real time would you do something?

We can't have two managers and if we could appoint a different one, it has to be because the incumbent leaves.

That's the reality, the situation could perhaps be retrieved by an experienced pro, (I'm not anti BR in particular, I had high hopes for him at the start) but we can't change the entire playing staff whatever happens, so who is most vunerable?

What change would make the most impact?

He hasn't shown himself to be particularly good with talent spotting or transfers so why give him more money, (notwithstanding that there isn't any)

Can we afford to find out that the BR experiment comes up short of his theory, in practice?

[rhroyal]

How much do you think the likes of Sodje, Halls, Bennett and Oster cost us in wages whilst we were in the Premiership? Our squad was too big - could we have afforded a player O'Neil or Cahill if we'd shipped them out?

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

We could have signed plenty of players.

Coppell chose not too.

We're now paying for it. You need 3 years in the Prem to really benifit from the money.

Rodger's has got a lot of work to get us back to the level we were at when Coppell joined....

[Dorset-Knob]

We could have signed plenty of players.

Coppell chose not too.

We're now paying for it. You need 3 years in the Prem to really benifit from the money.

Rodger's has got a lot of work to get us back to the level we were at when Coppell joined....

are you saying Coppell was a failure?

[Dorset-Knob]

Wish to heck I couldn't care whether we win, draw or lose.

Biggest question marks over BR at the moment must be the fact that the defence leaks like a sieve and he's already done £2.3m on a centre back who is deemed worse than Pearce and Ingi and a right back who we pretend doesn't exist any more.

+1

PLUS TWO!

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

We could have signed plenty of players.

Coppell chose not too.

We're now paying for it. You need 3 years in the Prem to really benifit from the money.

Rodger's has got a lot of work to get us back to the level we were at when Coppell joined....

are you saying Coppell was a failure?

I'm saying we are paying for an avoidable relegation. The blame for that lays at Coppell's feet and he was man enough to admit it.

We are in a worse posistion now than when he joined. People tried to claim JM was hidding funds, that clearly was never the case.

I'm not taking away what the guy did for this club and to call him a failure is too much imho. But you can't get past the fact that we are where we are at because of his mistakes. We should never have gone down. We slept walked into it, it shouldn't have happened.

[Southbank Old Boy]

AP, the majority of the money did go on players, right into the existing ones pockets!

Dorset, I wasnt changing you point, just highlighting that if you dont look at the real climate Rodgers is working in you cant judge his success or lack of it. Personally I think he is doing an OK job so far, with all things considered. It could be a whole lot better, and I really wish it was, but when you compare his record now against that of Coppells with far greater resources it isnt as bad as some on here would make out, and I dont think sacking him would help

Dorset, I agree with you about the error being in the club making a decision to cut the cloth, which is exactly why your blaming Rodgers and calling for his head is not taking into account the "excuses" you said were irrelevant and "an academic waste of time"

You don't think there's any danger of it being left too late then?

At what point in real time would you do something?

We can't have two managers and if we could appoint a different one, it has to be because the incumbent leaves.

That's the reality, the situation could perhaps be retrieved by an experienced pro, (I'm not anti BR in particular, I had high hopes for him at the start) but we can't change the entire playing staff whatever happens, so who is most vunerable?

What change would make the most impact?

He hasn't shown himself to be particularly good with talent spotting or transfers so why give him more money, (notwithstanding that there isn't any)

Can we afford to find out that the BR experiment comes up short of his theory, in practice?

I dont see much point in changing the manager when he is just starting to show signs of improvement, so I certainly dont think we are close to it being too late

As you seem to have accepted he is working under difficult circumstances (whilst also saying that its not his fault but calling for his head) that were outisde of his control, so why would you sack him for that?

The only time I would say its time for him to go is if he has lost the confidence of the players. By the looks of things that isnt the case, and the fact that we are now looking more dangerous than at any time in the last 11 months it would seem an odd move to sack him

Would someone else do better? Maybe, but they might also just have the same problems as Rodgers. He was bought in to manage this transition and so SJM wont sack him whilst he is doing his dirty work for him. I have no problem with that and think he should be stuck with

As for talent spotting, so far he has signed 7 playrs. Only 1 of them (Cummings) seems to be a dud so far. 1 (Bertrand) looks a exceptional talent, 2 (Rasiak and O'Dea) adequate short term measures, the other three decenet enough at this level. dont think he has done too bad on that front so far, although I would have expected more from Mills

[Dorset-Knob]

[quote=We still look shaky at the back, light upfront, and a bit low on confidence and prone to falling apart under pressure, but we are moving in the right direction[/quote]

I really do admire your optimism, but it smacks of fingers in ears, eyes closed and mouth repeating, la, la, la, la, la, la, la!

If you're right everything will be fine (and I hope you are) because if I'm right we'll be having this debate in league one next season!

I'd rather take some positive action rather than just wait and see.

A quote from the weekend's football league TV show, "Reading, the form team lose out to Derby the out of form team" couple that with the debacle at Posh and the fact that three teams will be relegated and we are one of the six most likely candidates for one the three places makes me feel less optimistic than you!