Long - Time to go.

[winchester_royal]

In the last 2 full season's (where Long only started 35 games total) and 15 starts this season

Long has scored 9+9+3 goals = 21 goals, 4 of which were pens

Now when did 21 Goals in 50 Starts become bad striking?

I really don't care whether a player scores in bursts or 1 every 2-3 games. I care whether OVERALL he scores X goals at Y rate and wins us some points or doesn't. For example the God Lita score ONE goal per season for 2 seasons and both goals were meaningless goals scored at the death when we were already winning 3-0

As someone kindly pointed out yesterday, Long was the only player who appeared to want to try to keep us in the play-offs in 2008-09. He has scored only goals, winning goals, won crucial penalties, got us the win at Anfield, put us 2 up against Villa. And he keeps getting picked by the resident professional.

GREAT, WORLD-CLASS players have long goal-droughts. DOYLE has gone longer than Shane has EVER done, and Doyle's run was STARTS, Shane's was mostly sub-appearances.

For it to be a drought, you need to have scored regularly in the first place.

[cmonurz]

Wimb has posted pretty much what I'm thinking, but more succinctly than I could manage.

You accuse me of being selective, but then decide that my stat 'every Long appearance back to the start of last season' is inferior to 'the last 2 full seasons', which happens to exclude his 1 from 15 games this season, which I thought would be relevant when discussing his current usefulness to the team.

You are just emphasising how you make the stats fit your argument.


As for your mention of world-class strikers on goal droughts, or Doyle's frankly rubbish run of 20-odd games - the difference with these players is that around those droughts they have exceptional scoring records. Long does not.

[Bandini]

The obvious answer is to notice that

HIS FULL READING CAREER IS 80 (83)

And leave it at that, rather than trying to simplify the stats, and in so doing present them in a misleading way.

What PRECISELY is misleading in presenting appearances as:

80 (83) = 93.8 "Games" = 32 Goals.

The STARTS are there
The SUB APPEARANCES are there
The GOALS are there

if someone doesn't like the approximater they can ignore it.

He hasn't had 93.8 games.

He has had 80 starts and 83 sub appearances.

Writing 93.8 games gives the reader no information as to the split between starts and sub appearances.

[Snowball]

He hasn't had 93.8 games.

He has had 80 starts and 83 sub appearances.

Writing 93.8 games gives the reader no information as to the split between starts and sub appearances.

80 STARTS (83) SUB-APPEARANCES = 93.8 "Games" = 32 Goals.

Does it for me.


Do you think we should count the two games where Church played ONE minuted as a full "appearance"? When Gunnar came on for Griffin, he then played 81 minutes in ONE appearance, forty times more than the total minutes for Church's TWO appearances.


CRAZY.

[Hoop Blah]

This post was made by Snowball who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

Is he still spamming with his drivel?

[Snowball]

Shane Long's goals from open play since start of 2009-10

1. 15 games, no goals
2. 4 games, 4 goals
3. 26 games, 2 goals

Snowball, in no way whatsoever is the pattern above 'the norm'. The exception to that rule is Doyle's 20-odd games without a goal - and iirc at the time this board was full of posts questioning why, week in week out, Coppell was picking Doyle for the team. 4 goals in 4 games - great. 2 goals in the other 41 games - absolutely toilet.

Apart from the fact that you quietly try to slip by sub appearances, sometimes for the odd minute as "an appearance" (perhaps inferring a START) where exactly do you get your goals-scored from?

From the start of last season Long had 8+1 goals and this season 2+1 goals

That is 11 goals, 3 of which are penalties. is that right? His other pen was the previous season v Charlton

So in 24 STARTS + 15 STARTS and 13 sub appearances 39 (13) he has 12 goals (9 open, 3 pens)

Is that correct?

[Bandini]

He hasn't had 93.8 games.

He has had 80 starts and 83 sub appearances.

Writing 93.8 games gives the reader no information as to the split between starts and sub appearances.

80 STARTS (83) SUB-APPEARANCES = 93.8 "Games" = 32 Goals.

Does it for me.


Do you think we should count the two games where Church played ONE minuted as a full "appearance"? When Gunnar came on for Griffin, he then played 81 minutes in ONE appearance, forty times more than the total minutes for Church's TWO appearances.


CRAZY.

Nope. I think that one should note both the number of full appearances and the number of sub appearances to understand the performance of and contribution by the particular player.

[cmonurz]

They are league appearances, and are goals from open play. I have consistently been posting these stats in this way for many pages. League appearances, goals from open play.

I am not trying to infer they are starts, I have never claimed they are starts. Appearances, goals.

I am 'not interested' in penalties scored. To use the Snowball method, as I am 'not interested' they don't count.

[Snowball]

They are league appearances, and are goals from open play. I have consistently been posting these stats in this way for many pages. League appearances, goals from open play.

I am not trying to infer they are starts, I have never claimed they are starts. Appearances, goals.

I am 'not interested' in penalties scored. To use the Snowball method, as I am 'not interested' they don't count.

O-I-C, neat trick. I must have missed where you said Long's Cup goals were trivia and discarded

Long score 3 brilliant goals versus Premiership opposition. SHIT.

I know, let's drop the cup games, as cup games and getting to with 45 minutes of Wembley mean nothing.

Does that mean we have to take away
Gylfi's goal v Burnley, v Liverpool, v WBA away too.
and Church v Liverpool, Church v WBA
and Kebe's at home v WBA and Kebe's away at WBA
Howard's at WBA

So Gylfi, 20 goals is now 14 with pens removed and then down to 12 League Only

Church drops to 10, Kebe drops to 10, and that's 33.33% of Howard's goals gone.
No wait, one was a penalty, wasn't it, so scrub 66,67% of his goals.


"Rz" you are REALLY manipulating when you deliberately omit 3 goals out of 9 that you KNOW are open-play. Do you deny that those open-play goals against Premiership opposition impinge on any argument about Long's ability? Of course they do.

At least it makes you "honesty" a little clearer.

[Snowball]

Nope. I think that one should note both the number of full appearances and the number of sub appearances to understand the performance of and contribution by the particular player.

And totally ignore whether those sub appearances are 80 minutes or 1 minute?

[Wycombe Royal]

Nope. I think that one should note both the number of full appearances and the number of sub appearances to understand the performance of and contribution by the particular player.

And totally ignore whether those sub appearances are 80 minutes or 1 minute?

I have shown on the other topic that you approximaton of subs appearances is very innaccurate.

[Ian Royal]

I am using League starts only, since McDermott took over. This is basically the point you can say that Long started getting decent runs of consecutive runs of games in the side and playing regularly.

33 starts from 40 games played by Reading, 9 goals (2 penalties). A goal every 3.6 games. However this is distorted by one exceptional goalscoring run in three games.

I am going to be even more generous than previously, removing the 4 game run Shane had in his purple patch, despite not scoring in one of them And then to balance out I'll take another 4 games where he didn't score. So that's 3 he did and 5 he didn't.

That's 25 games, 5 goals (2 penalties). A goal every 5 games.

This shows us that that purple patch has indeed competely distorted Shane's scoring record and actually his record from starting games is still fairly poor for a striker. Although his latest goal might just be the sign of an improvement. I doubt it.

[Bandini]

Nope. I think that one should note both the number of full appearances and the number of sub appearances to understand the performance of and contribution by the particular player.

And totally ignore whether those sub appearances are 80 minutes or 1 minute?

Is there any method being proposed which counts the individual minutes per actual sub appearance?

[BR2]

Karacan admitted that he and the rest of the Reading dressing room were sick of the jeers that the Republic of Ireland striker had received in previous games this season.

well done lads

Stop playing like a pcunt if you don't want to be jeered. Might start on the little turk tomorrow night if he misplaces a couple of passes.

What a load of tosh.
If a couple of boos from the whole of our crowd are now exaggerated by the players they ought to think of getting another job that pays £10,000 per week or so because ours is one of the mildest-mannered crowds in English football.
Move elsewhere Jem and you and your mates will find out what real booing is about you over-sensitive souls.

[Maguire]

Quite. It's hardly been abuse has it? Poor little soldiers.

[floyd__streete]

Karacan admitted that he and the rest of the Reading dressing room were sick of the jeers that the Republic of Ireland striker had received in previous games this season.

well done lads

What a bunch of precious c*nts footballers are. More than happy to take the acclaim, absolutely incredulous when they have to take some stick. They show their true colours of their absolute disdain towards paying spectators with hissy fits such as Mills pathetic v-sign last season. They live in a bubble.

[cmonurz]

"Rz" you are REALLY manipulating when you deliberately omit 3 goals out of 9 that you KNOW are open-play. Do you deny that those open-play goals against Premiership opposition impinge on any argument about Long's ability? Of course they do.

At least it makes you "honesty" a little clearer.

Grow up. I've been abundantly clear all the way through that my stats were for league games. All the way through.

[brendywendy]

Karacan admitted that he and the rest of the Reading dressing room were sick of the jeers that the Republic of Ireland striker had received in previous games this season.

well done lads

What a bunch of precious c*nts footballers are. More than happy to take the acclaim, absolutely incredulous when they have to take some stick. They show their true colours of their absolute disdain towards paying spectators with hissy fits such as Mills pathetic v-sign last season. They live in a bubble.

personally i find responses like that way more eyebrow raising than players getting the hump with fans who continually turn up to games to boo their own players.

hes just said it gets to long, and that the other players dont like it much, and is looking to speak up for him, hardly frothing at the mouth is he.
plus its pretty much the same words weve been getting from mcdermott about long for the last few weeks, no one called him a precious c*nt

like i said elsewhere- the two previous times with mills and kebe where they reacted and made signal;s to the crowd, it resulted it massive upturn in performance from both, and a seeming increase in respect from the supporters..
im hoping it does the same with long

[Hoop Blah]

If the tiny bit of negative rumbling that's been heard at games is getting to Long then you have to worry about his mental fortitude.

Is he the softest football since mummys boy Beauchamp?

I bet the players give each other a hell of a lot more stick than us mere supporters, their paymasters, do and I can't stand this attitude of not being able to handle a bit of citicism or barracking (and that's throughout football not just our poor little darlings).

[rfcjoe]

Long time to go 'til what?