CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by TBM » 05 Mar 2015 16:54

Extended-Phenotype
Hoop Blah We probably did have first refusal.

Doesn't really matter if the player refuses it or his club aren't selling him though does it?


You seem to be struggling a bit with what I am saying m8.

It was suggested at the time that Murray was signed on a 5 month loan in which if Reading were happy, he'd be ours. As in both his club and the player himself had signed to that effect.

If he or his club could change their minds, then a contract like this is little more than a 5 month loan. The other clauses are just fluff. "Option to buy" is meaningless.

I argued on this thread that it wasnt a deal worth getting excited about because if he turned out great he'd be off back to Palace. People on here started suplexing me convinced by the club that the only party which could decide if Murray would stay at Reading, was Reading.

That has been proven to be false.

I really can't be arsed to break it down any simpler than that.


I was with you from the start bro


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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Extended-Phenotype » 05 Mar 2015 16:58

TBM
Extended-Phenotype
Hoop Blah We probably did have first refusal.

Doesn't really matter if the player refuses it or his club aren't selling him though does it?


You seem to be struggling a bit with what I am saying m8.

It was suggested at the time that Murray was signed on a 5 month loan in which if Reading were happy, he'd be ours. As in both his club and the player himself had signed to that effect.

If he or his club could change their minds, then a contract like this is little more than a 5 month loan. The other clauses are just fluff. "Option to buy" is meaningless.

I argued on this thread that it wasnt a deal worth getting excited about because if he turned out great he'd be off back to Palace. People on here started suplexing me convinced by the club that the only party which could decide if Murray would stay at Reading, was Reading.

That has been proven to be false.

I really can't be arsed to break it down any simpler than that.


I was with you from the start bro



And I will never forget that, comrade

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Hoop Blah » 05 Mar 2015 17:10

If Warnock hadn't been replaced with Pardew around the same time the deal may well have gone through.

I don't disagree that the deal to make it permanent was a bit flakey but you were banging on about the club making stuff up and us not having a first refusal type agreement.

Regardless of what deal was in place and the hows and whys of it not being made permanent, having Murray here for 5 months was a big boost for the team and results. Anyone who can't see that there was a benefit to it is blind if you ask me.

Could we have got a better forward for less at the time? Possibly, but I'm sure the club tried that as well. Could we have got someone else in once the permanent deal failed to go through? Again, possibly but I'm guessing the purse strings are still pretty tight and they decided to wait until the summer when Clarke should have a chance to really build the squad he wants and not just panic buy someone in January.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Extended-Phenotype » 05 Mar 2015 17:29

Ian Royal: "what part of loan with the option to buy are people struggling with?"

EP: "All of it. I genuinely don't know what that ensures. If it's "we want him" = he's ours, cool. If he or his club can back out, not cool."

Ian Royal: "Option 2 there is just a loan. There is no meaning to having an option to buy if it can be refused or gazumped."

So wtf did the club mean by 'option to buy'?

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Snowball » 05 Mar 2015 17:35

Sat in the West Stand for the Forest 0-3 and the guy next to me remarked
quite a few times how, despite his hard work, Pog, kept missing the good
pass (because he didn't see the player in space.

Watching Murray, not quite 100% and probably not 100% committed to RFC,
when he played I thought he organised the whole attack.

Frankly I'd put him as worth a full division higher than Pog
(and I quite LIKE Pog)

it may well be that we don't use Pog the right way, but then, when has he ever
looked "special" over more than 1-2 games?


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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Extended-Phenotype » 05 Mar 2015 17:49

Nicky Hammond: "we have an option to buy at the end of the loan period for a certain price."

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/reading-fc-transfer-news-royals-7710107

What happened to that option to buy then, Nicky?

Oh right. It was bollocks.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by RoyallyFcuked » 05 Mar 2015 18:12

Hoop Blah I think from what's been said throughout there was an agreement in place for the transfer to happen at the end of the loan period, it just needed everyone to still want it to go ahead.

Obviously not all parties subject to the deal wanted to happen though.

I don't think the club lied.


A perfect summary.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Extended-Phenotype » 05 Mar 2015 18:15

Except that isn't an "option to buy". Which is what Hammond said the deal was.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by RoyallyFcuked » 05 Mar 2015 18:19

Extended-Phenotype Except that isn't an "option to buy". Which is what Hammond said the deal was.


An "option to buy", providing all parties still wanted the deal to go ahead...


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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Extended-Phenotype » 05 Mar 2015 18:50

RoyallyFcuked
Extended-Phenotype Except that isn't an "option to buy". Which is what Hammond said the deal was.


An "option to buy", providing all parties still wanted the deal to go ahead...


:lol:

"We've all signed a contract that in the event we all still feel the same way come January, we can sign him permanently. Or not. Whatever anyone wants at that time."

What does that even mean?

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by RoyallyFcuked » 05 Mar 2015 19:00

Extended-Phenotype
RoyallyFcuked
Extended-Phenotype Except that isn't an "option to buy". Which is what Hammond said the deal was.


An "option to buy", providing all parties still wanted the deal to go ahead...


:lol:

"We've all signed a contract that in the event we all still feel the same way come January, we can sign him permanently. Or not. Whatever anyone wants at that time."

What does that even mean?


:lol:

An agreement in place doesnt necessarily mean any contract was signed.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Ian Royal » 05 Mar 2015 19:17

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Ouroboros What good is first option to buy if the player doesn't want to sign?


He had already signed, m8.

If the deal was true. Which it wasn't.

Erm, no. Not necessarily. A fee had been agreed and a deal in principle (allegedly), but that'd still require terms being signed between Reading and Murray. Otherwise the initial loan wouldn't be a loan, the paperwork'd already been done and it'd be a perm signing from the off.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Ian Royal » 05 Mar 2015 19:22

TBM Ian Royal was pretty confident it was a done deal

Ian Royal In all honesty I'm guessing there's a framework in place with some small room for maneuver depending on performance, and like pretty much anything, if someone wants to wreck it bad enough they'll manage it.

There's got to be a fee negotiated already and Murray is going to have a damn good idea of what we're going to pay him and for how long. So it's surely got to take something spectacular to not go through.

something spectacular like a change of manager and getting back into the PL playing squad of his club on his existing wage.

The argument from E-P was that anyone could just come in and gazump us and he's using the fact that we didn't get him in the end as some sort of trump that he was right about that all along. But that's not what happened. No one signed him. No one stepped in and gazumped us. He just stayed at Palace.


It's really not fecking hard and I don't understand why E-P, who's normally fairly bright is having so much trouble understanding quite basic concepts.

1. Plain Loan signing
We loan Murrary for 5 months, no other deals discussed.
End of 5 months. If we want him, we have to bid alongside any other club that wants him. wage expectations probably haven't been discussed at the loan deal stage.

2. Loan with an option to buy
We loan Murray for 5 months, with a deal agreed with Palace that we can exercise a right to buy at a set price and another club can't intervene. We still have to sign a contract with Murray, but we can reasonably expect that most things have been discussed in terms of terms and aren't going to cause a problem.
End of 5 months we decide if we want to exercise the right to buy.
We do. The fee is already agreed. Palace put the option to Murray. They can either try and convince him to stay with them, or they can say off you pop, you're not really wanted. He then agrees terms with us, or refuses. If he refuses he then talks to Palace about his options and they either tell him to stay, or he's still not wanted. At which point other clubs may enter the process.

2. is what the club said we had, quite clearly. At the time it looked pretty obvious that if Murray did well we'd exercise the right to buy, Palace wouldn't be interested in keeping him and he'd have the choice of rotting in the reserves for half a year and then having no club, joining us, or gambling on someone else showing an interest.

As it transpired, Palace were oxf*rd for strikers and Murray was offered the chance of playing PL football with them on his existing salary, rather than rotting in the reserves. He made the obvious decision and we lost out.

What's so freaking hard to follow?


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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by P!ssed Off » 05 Mar 2015 19:40

This again?? :shock:

It's so oxf*rd simple!

A fee was agreed between the two clubs: If Reading offered the agreed amount, Palace had to accept the offer.
Murray was not obligated to agree anything, Reading were not obligated to agree anything.

Simple as that.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Ian Royal » 05 Mar 2015 19:45

P!ssed Off This again?? :shock:

It's so oxf*rd simple!

A fee was agreed between the two clubs: If Reading offered the agreed amount, Palace had to accept the offer.
Murray was not obligated to agree anything, Reading were not obligated to agree anything.

Simple as that.

A more concise version of what I said. Damn you. You win.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Pandoras Box » 05 Mar 2015 20:14

Who f...... Cares. Even when he was playing for us he spent more time on Twitter wondering how the 'boys' at Palace were doing, wishing the 'lads' luck and brown nosing them than trying to get in the box for us and doing what he was supposedly paid for.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Harpers So Solid Crew » 06 Mar 2015 04:25

He has gone, we move on.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Snowball » 06 Mar 2015 07:35

Harpers So Solid Crew He has gone, we move on.


He might come back








to play alongside Shane, fed by Siggy from midfield

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by Extended-Phenotype » 06 Mar 2015 10:09

Ian Royal
TBM Ian Royal was pretty confident it was a done deal

Ian Royal In all honesty I'm guessing there's a framework in place with some small room for maneuver depending on performance, and like pretty much anything, if someone wants to wreck it bad enough they'll manage it.

There's got to be a fee negotiated already and Murray is going to have a damn good idea of what we're going to pay him and for how long. So it's surely got to take something spectacular to not go through.

something spectacular like a change of manager and getting back into the PL playing squad of his club on his existing wage.

The argument from E-P was that anyone could just come in and gazump us and he's using the fact that we didn't get him in the end as some sort of trump that he was right about that all along. But that's not what happened. No one signed him. No one stepped in and gazumped us. He just stayed at Palace.


It's really not fecking hard and I don't understand why E-P, who's normally fairly bright is having so much trouble understanding quite basic concepts.

1. Plain Loan signing
We loan Murrary for 5 months, no other deals discussed.
End of 5 months. If we want him, we have to bid alongside any other club that wants him. wage expectations probably haven't been discussed at the loan deal stage.

2. Loan with an option to buy
We loan Murray for 5 months, with a deal agreed with Palace that we can exercise a right to buy at a set price and another club can't intervene. We still have to sign a contract with Murray, but we can reasonably expect that most things have been discussed in terms of terms and aren't going to cause a problem.
End of 5 months we decide if we want to exercise the right to buy.
We do. The fee is already agreed. Palace put the option to Murray. They can either try and convince him to stay with them, or they can say off you pop, you're not really wanted. He then agrees terms with us, or refuses. If he refuses he then talks to Palace about his options and they either tell him to stay, or he's still not wanted. At which point other clubs may enter the process.

2. is what the club said we had, quite clearly. At the time it looked pretty obvious that if Murray did well we'd exercise the right to buy, Palace wouldn't be interested in keeping him and he'd have the choice of rotting in the reserves for half a year and then having no club, joining us, or gambling on someone else showing an interest.

As it transpired, Palace were oxf*rd for strikers and Murray was offered the chance of playing PL football with them on his existing salary, rather than rotting in the reserves. He made the obvious decision and we lost out.

What's so freaking hard to follow?


:lol:
I've even quoted you saying neither Palace nor another club can scupper the deal!

You argued at the time that the decision was ours. An option to buy is exactly that - if we want to sign the player, he's ours.

Its really, really obvious what my point is. Not sure why you and P!ssed Off are playing so dim.

If Palace can reneg on the deal, it isn't a fcuking deal is it?

Work it out fellas.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

by P!ssed Off » 06 Mar 2015 10:12

Extended-Phenotype If Palace can reneg on the deal, it isn't a fcuking deal is it?

Work it out fellas.


:| :| :| :| :|
How did Palace reneg on any deal?
The deal was if we bid x it's up to Murray. It was up to Murray, and he said no.
You're the one being dim.


Not sure what you don't get?
Much like if a player has a buy-back-clause: if his old club bid x, new club must accept the offer. But the player does not have to move because he's a person, not a commodity, and therefore enjoys some basic human rights*.

*Unless you're in the MLS.*
Last edited by P!ssed Off on 06 Mar 2015 10:17, edited 2 times in total.

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