The Gr8 Keeper Deb8

[sandman]

Butland is three years younger, has represented England at more age groups and was picked for the Olympics ahead of McCarthy. But of course all that was because England and Birmingham had the same goalkeeping coach.

[peterroyal76]

Butland is three years younger, has represented England at more age groups and was picked for the Olympics ahead of McCarthy. But of course all that was because England and Birmingham had the same goalkeeping coach.

And Butland has been pretty average this season.

[sandman]

He's 19 so he's going to be inconsistent at times but he is a very bright prospect and has kept them in quite a few games. This is what Clark had to say about him last week:

'He (Butland) can be anything he wants. He is improving all the time. In the last few weeks he's looked what he is - top quality and a future international goalkeeper.'

That said I'm not surprised that McCarthy's rabid fan club are making stuff up about another keeper they've been doing the same thing to Federici for the last two seasons.

[SCIAG]

ok

so my other question was (bearing in mind Woodcotes concerns) ...who would sign Mc in preferrence to what they already have (and why would he sign to sit on a bench).

Southampton and Villa are the only two who would consider signing him for the player he is right now. A few more (off the top of my head: Fulham, West Ham, Everton) might in the hope that he'll replace their first choice in a few years.

Butland is three years younger, has represented England at more age groups and was picked for the Olympics ahead of McCarthy. But of course all that was because England and Birmingham had the same goalkeeping coach.

And Butland has been pretty average this season.

And was pretty average for Cheltenham last season.

I am aware I am replying to sandman who is pretending to hate McCarthy in order to prove a point, but having played for more youth age groups means very little. For a start, McCarthy was something of a late bloomer (by which I mean he only really came on aged about 17), whereas Butland has always looked like he'd be a very good professional footballer. For another, it doesn't really correlate with ability now- Steve Sidwell played more matches for England at youth level than Paul Scholes, and it wasn't because Scholes was fast tracked. Finally, McCarthy is three years older and three years more developed than Butland. It makes sense for McCarthy to be better than Butland right now, just as, for example, Theo Walcott is better than Raheem Sterling right now, or Simon Church is better than Dominic Samuel right now.

Oh, and I'm not a rabid member of the McCarthy fan club. Last season I was one of the few who thought Federici should be first choice.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Cheers SCIAG, that kind've confirms my thoughts

Despite the "learned" Woodcotes opinions and worries....McCarthy, whether sat on the bench, or playing, has nothing much to gain by leaving Reading.

Still cannot get my head totally around this Federici hatefest from the likes of he

[SHORT AND CURLY]

He bases it on the one or two games a season he goes to!

[Woodcote Royal]

So what weakness does McCarthy have to justify him not being re-instated as first choice when fit?

Experience?

04 Aldershot
45 Yeovil
03 Brentford
14 Reading
10 Ipswich
07 Leeds
01 Reading

84 TOTAL all lower reaches followed by 7 Prem Appearances this season plus 1 cup game.


32 Championship and 7 Premiership games? Maybe that's what is perceived as a (relative) weakness?

Federici

02 Reading
10 Southend
15 RFC
52 RFC
38 RFC
47 RFC

164 TOTAL, the vast majority for RFC at Championship level, plus this season's games

So Federici has no more Premiership experience than his younger more talented rival and has performed poorly in his most of his top flight matches.

[Woodcote Royal]

so who would actually sign McCarthy as their first team keeper in the Prem?

There are keepers ahead of him in the England pecking order in the Championship.


Just wondering like

Well, sorry, but it's a pretty poor piece of wondering

The most tempting thing we can offer one of England's best young 'keepers is 1st team football in the top flight. I doubt that many of our rivals would sign him as their first choice but it's highly likely his recent performances will see someone deem him good enough to be their No2 and an excellent investment for the future.

So if, come January, a good offer comes in to warm a bench on far better money, having spent 2 seasons on ours watching a guy clearly his inferior playing week in week out, why would he want to stay put

[MouldyRoyal]

Feds played well on Saturday. Whilst his command of his area is not as strong as McCarthy, his distribution is massively better. The pin point, low kick straight out to ALF was something McCarthy would not be able to do, on current ability.

[Snowball]

You're right why bother signing anyone with less than a hundred appearances! I suppose the interest in Zaha will stop now as well.

That isn't the point. I happen to rate McArthy very, very highly indeed and see him as our future.

The question was, what weakness MIGHT BE perceived by management
and my (possible) answer is that McArthy has very, very little experience
in the top flight OR the second flight, whereas Federici has oodles of
experience at Championship level including relegation battles, Wembley
and plenty of decent results v Prem teams.


If you were asking me, I would pick McArthy, but that wasn't the point.

[Snowball]

So Federici has no more Premiership experience than his younger more talented rival and has performed poorly in his most of his top flight matches.

But he has a very, very, very good record at Championship level, far more extended than McArthy,
was clerly carrying n injury at the start of this season and played well in his most recent Prem game.

[Woodcote Royal]

Feds played well on Saturday. Whilst his command of his area is not as strong as McCarthy, his distribution is massively better. The pin point, low kick straight out to ALF was something McCarthy would not be able to do, on current ability.

He didn't play well, he was his usual average Championship self.........................a few decent stops but a goal conceded that most at this level would have prevented because they are far quicker off their line than he is. There was also another incident when a back pass nearly resulted in disaster because, having been too slow again to come out, he tried to collect he ball rather than kick it upfield/into row Z.

[maffff]

Snowball mate, get it right, McCarthy has to C's - it's McCarthy. not McArthy.

Anyway, gut feel is I more confident with Alex in goal, although I'm fine with Feds at the moment I hope that Alex gets the #1 slot back when he's over his injury.

Feds is a good keeper, McCarthy is a good keeper that could become a great keeper and with such little competition out there for England spots, Fraser Forster, John Ruddy, then he's in a healthy position to provide competition especially with Hart having a wobble recenty - it only takes one injury for him to get a shot, look at what has happened with us.

I'm also content with Taylor as a backup, although he hasn't played much in his career you don't spend that long on the books of teams like Man City without having something about you, and Andersen has been doing well at Portsmouth (although I believe is back now as his loan expired after the weekend and they can't extend it).

He has another 3? years on his contract and with Zingarevich saying that it means we won't have to sell our best players we're in a good position so I'd like to see him carrying on developing.

[Snowball]

Snowball mate, get it right, McCarthy has to C's - it's McCarthy. not McArthy.

Anyway, gut feel is I more confident with Alex in goal, although I'm fine with Feds at the moment I hope that Alex gets the #1 slot back when he's over his injury.

Feds is a good keeper, McCarthy is a good keeper that could become a great keeper and with such little competition out there for England spots, Fraser Forster, John Ruddy, then he's in a healthy position to provide competition especially with Hart having a wobble recenty - it only takes one injury for him to get a shot, look at what has happened with us.

I'm also content with Taylor as a backup, although he hasn't played much in his career you don't spend that long on the books of teams like Man City without having something about you, and Andersen has been doing well at Portsmouth (although I believe is back now as his loan expired after the weekend and they can't extend it).

He has another 3? years on his contract and with Zingarevich saying that it means we won't have to sell our best players we're in a good position so I'd like to see him carrying on developing.

He did have but he kept dropping one

[maffff]

I'd understand the joke if you were talking about Fderici...

[Woodcote Royal]

So Federici has no more Premiership experience than his younger more talented rival and has performed poorly in his most of his top flight matches.

But he has a very, very, very good record at Championship level, far more extended than McArthy,

No he wasn't. He was our first choice in a good defence but has a long record of elementary errors and being caught out by long shots through poor positioning/anticipation. He was dropped after 3 poor games at the start of the season and managed a clean sheet last week simply because his goal was rarely threatened.

He conceded one goal on Saturday that better 'keepers would have prevented and one of the shots he stopped was straight at him yet he could only parry it straight back into the box rather than to one side or over the bar...........................there was also the back pass I've already mentioned that nearly ended in disaster.

Having said all that, after McCarthy's recent spell in the side I don't believe the club will let him slip through their hands in order to massage Federici's ego. One is very average the other a future star and I'm banking on them to act accordingly.

[maffff]

In fairness McCarthy started slowly at Leeds and had an absolute mare at Ipswich. He isn't perfect, but he's getting there.

[Hoop Blah]

...and with such little competition out there for England spots, Fraser Forster, John Ruddy, then he's in a healthy position to provide competition

I'm quite a fan of McCarthy's, but even though he's had some good performances he's not looked to be a top top keeper yet (hopefully he will) so if you're putting him in contention for the England squad then there are plenty of others who are at least at the same level as him.

Hart, Forster, Ruddy, Butland, Carson and Stockdale as those who've been involved recently, plus Green (who I think we've probably seen the last of in an England squad). If Hart was out for a significant then I think you might even add in Ben Foster as well as he might be talked into playing.

Then there are the likes of McCarthy and the other young keepers who are lining up as very good prospects. The likes of Fielding (who's been in squads before), Steele and maybe even Loach and Amos are possibly McCarthy's peers. That's quite a list of keepers who are in and around the England set up and are likely competing for the 2nd/3rd spot in the squad (I think Hart and Butland will be nailed on at the moment as they're the number 1 and the next long term option).

I do worry that if he's not playing here that McCarthy will see a definite need to move in order to continue his progression and get himself at the head of that queue. Playing more regularily for someone else, or even sitting on the bench at somewhere like Liverpool, City, Everton or Chlesea might be seen as a good career move.

[moonwalklikebas]

Can I bring you back to Macca's World Class save for Granero's Freekick at QPR

[Hoop Blah]

All keepers make 'world class saves' though.

I'm certainly not saying McCarthy isn't a very good keeper and an even better prospect, I'm just saying there are quite a few keepers at a similar level and better that are competing with each other to be involved with England.