OFFISHAL CONFRIMATION of the CONFIMRED

[Linden Jones' Tash]

But the question was ‘is all debt now owned by couhig’ and it appears to me some is, some isn’t.

Maybe I am being thick/pedantic, but they might now own the 'debt', but it might still sit with a 3rd party institution - otherwise what has happened to the £90M that was in the latest figures...?

Not at all, I’ve no idea also. Which is why I’ve called out people using the word fact. As nobody actually knows. Where is ian when we need him. We need someone who knows nothing about anything to talk authoritatively as if they do.

Thanks - I appreciate your comment - at face value, the new owners have said it's not gonna be an issue until they decide to sell, so i will believe them.

I'm just curious as to how it's been dealt with - its all big boy finance stuff that's way above my head tbh...

[morganb]

Where is ian when we need him. We need someone who knows nothing about anything to talk authoritatively as if they do.

You don't hear that very often

Last time I saw him he was calling someone an "Ungrateful prick" on the "Charlie Savage to Wrexham" thread

[Greatwesternline]

is it? info seems a bit flaky to 100% confirm the statement as fact. from couhigs interview with craig, he send there was still 'vendor' debt, and gave an example of not paying for the car park (which he is sorting). What wasn't stated was, is all debt, including vendor debt, owned by couhig now, or is some of it still on the club...

All the clubs debts are the clubs debts. Some are to the owners, some are to suppliers.

In the interview he says they are dealing with the suppliers debts now, and won't seek repayment of the debt owed to them, the owners.

So if you think he tells the truth, those are facts.

But the question was ‘is all debt now owned by couhig’ and it appears to me some is, some isn’t.

Couhig owns all of Reading's debt because he is the owner of RFC. That's what he owns. RFC owes tens of millions to Couhig, because RFC owes tens of millions to its owner, and he is the owner. The previous owner lent RFC tens of millions and he has bought that debt along with the rest of the club from the previous owner.

It also owes small amounts of money to suppliers, he mentioned car parking company.

[Greatwesternline]

All the clubs debts are the clubs debts. Some are to the owners, some are to suppliers.

In the interview he says they are dealing with the suppliers debts now, and won't seek repayment of the debt owed to them, the owners.

So if you think he tells the truth, those are facts.

But the question was ‘is all debt now owned by couhig’ and it appears to me some is, some isn’t.

Maybe I am being thick/pedantic, but they might now own the 'debt', but it might still sit with a 3rd party institution - otherwise what has happened to the £90M that was in the latest figures...?

The 90m debt is still an RFC debt. It was owed to Mr Dai. He sold that debt to Mr Couhig. Mr Couhig is now owed £90m or whatever it is from RFC. He has said he doesn't plan to call it in. It will be bundled into the sales price negotiation when he sells the club to the next owner.

[Brogue]

But the question was ‘is all debt now owned by couhig’ and it appears to me some is, some isn’t.

Maybe I am being thick/pedantic, but they might now own the 'debt', but it might still sit with a 3rd party institution - otherwise what has happened to the £90M that was in the latest figures...?

The 90m debt is still an RFC debt. It was owed to Mr Dai. He sold that debt to Mr Couhig. Mr Couhig is now owed £90m or whatever it is from RFC. He has said he doesn't plan to call it in. It will be bundled into the sales price negotiation when he sells the club to the next owner.

So how does debt transfer work? Couhig has paid dai 90mill on top of the sale price? So he has just bought reading fc for the equivalent price of 115 million? And then he’s just going to sit on that debt for the next ‘x’ amount of years without cashing it in? That would seem a very odd business deal and unlikely. Help me understand here. What am I getting wrong?

And I’m not being a pcunt here. I’m genuinely asking as I don’t know, and I’m trying to understand.

I remember back in the day Ken bates sold Chelsea to abramovich for £1 as Abramovich took the debt on. Not sure why couhig has paid 25 million for the club if he’s taking on the debt as well.

[Greatwesternline]

Maybe I am being thick/pedantic, but they might now own the 'debt', but it might still sit with a 3rd party institution - otherwise what has happened to the £90M that was in the latest figures...?

The 90m debt is still an RFC debt. It was owed to Mr Dai. He sold that debt to Mr Couhig. Mr Couhig is now owed £90m or whatever it is from RFC. He has said he doesn't plan to call it in. It will be bundled into the sales price negotiation when he sells the club to the next owner.

So how does debt transfer work? Couhig has paid dai 90mill on top of the sale price? So he has just bought reading fc for the equivalent price of 115 million? And then he’s just going to sit on that debt for the next ‘x’ amount of years without cashing it in? That would seem a very odd business deal and unlikely. Help me understand here. What am I getting wrong?

And I’m not being a pcunt here. I’m genuinely asking as I don’t know, and I’m trying to understand.

I remember back in the day Ken bates sold Chelsea to abramovich for £1 as Abramovich took the debt on. Not sure why couhig has paid 25 million for the club if he’s taking on the debt as well.

It's confusing because people aren't used to people giving up on money.

Dai was owed £90m + but he has given up his claim to that money, in exchange for whatever Couhig just gave him in cash.

Couhig paid £25m in cash to Dai for the privilege of taking that debt off his hands. In accounting terms Couhig has acquired a "bargain", but in reality, Dai had no options left, and he was never going to get that £90m so Dai gets £25m cash and Couhig picks up a club on the cheap, who theoretically one day will give him a big pay day if he can realise that debt he picked up on the cheap.

[blueroyals]

Perhaps there's an accounting angle. Maybe the club could offset any profits made going forward against the debt owed to the parent company, to avoid tax

[Brogue]

The 90m debt is still an RFC debt. It was owed to Mr Dai. He sold that debt to Mr Couhig. Mr Couhig is now owed £90m or whatever it is from RFC. He has said he doesn't plan to call it in. It will be bundled into the sales price negotiation when he sells the club to the next owner.

So how does debt transfer work? Couhig has paid dai 90mill on top of the sale price? So he has just bought reading fc for the equivalent price of 115 million? And then he’s just going to sit on that debt for the next ‘x’ amount of years without cashing it in? That would seem a very odd business deal and unlikely. Help me understand here. What am I getting wrong?

And I’m not being a pcunt here. I’m genuinely asking as I don’t know, and I’m trying to understand.

I remember back in the day Ken bates sold Chelsea to abramovich for £1 as Abramovich took the debt on. Not sure why couhig has paid 25 million for the club if he’s taking on the debt as well.

It's confusing because people aren't used to people giving up on money.

Dai was owed £90m + but he has given up his claim to that money, in exchange for whatever Couhig just gave him in cash.

Couhig paid £25m in cash to Dai for the privilege of taking that debt off his hands. In accounting terms Couhig has acquired a "bargain", but in reality, Dai had no options left, and he was never going to get that £90m so Dai gets £25m cash and Couhig picks up a club on the cheap, who theoretically one day will give him a big pay day if he can realise that debt he picked up on the cheap.

Yeah I’m even more confused. The debt was owed to dai. If Dai has written off the debt. Why is there still debt? And why has it passed on to couhig.

Anyone else confused by this or am i just being a melt and I should just back away from the thread?

[Greatwesternline]

So how does debt transfer work? Couhig has paid dai 90mill on top of the sale price? So he has just bought reading fc for the equivalent price of 115 million? And then he’s just going to sit on that debt for the next ‘x’ amount of years without cashing it in? That would seem a very odd business deal and unlikely. Help me understand here. What am I getting wrong?

And I’m not being a pcunt here. I’m genuinely asking as I don’t know, and I’m trying to understand.

I remember back in the day Ken bates sold Chelsea to abramovich for £1 as Abramovich took the debt on. Not sure why couhig has paid 25 million for the club if he’s taking on the debt as well.

It's confusing because people aren't used to people giving up on money.

Dai was owed £90m + but he has given up his claim to that money, in exchange for whatever Couhig just gave him in cash.

Couhig paid £25m in cash to Dai for the privilege of taking that debt off his hands. In accounting terms Couhig has acquired a "bargain", but in reality, Dai had no options left, and he was never going to get that £90m so Dai gets £25m cash and Couhig picks up a club on the cheap, who theoretically one day will give him a big pay day if he can realise that debt he picked up on the cheap.

Yeah I’m even more confused. The debt was owed to dai. If Dai has written off the debt. Why is there still debt? And why has it passed on to couhig.

Anyone else confused by this or am i just being a melt and I should just back away from the thread?

Dai didn't write off the debt, he sold it to Couhig.

It's in neither of Dai or Couhig interests to just cancel a debt. It has it's uses to both of them. It's money the owner can take our of the club tax free. If Reading make £100m in profits, Couhig can pay off the debt to himself without having to pay income or dividend tax on the money because it's the repayment of a loan.

[Stranded]

So how does debt transfer work? Couhig has paid dai 90mill on top of the sale price? So he has just bought reading fc for the equivalent price of 115 million? And then he’s just going to sit on that debt for the next ‘x’ amount of years without cashing it in? That would seem a very odd business deal and unlikely. Help me understand here. What am I getting wrong?

And I’m not being a pcunt here. I’m genuinely asking as I don’t know, and I’m trying to understand.

I remember back in the day Ken bates sold Chelsea to abramovich for £1 as Abramovich took the debt on. Not sure why couhig has paid 25 million for the club if he’s taking on the debt as well.

It's confusing because people aren't used to people giving up on money.

Dai was owed £90m + but he has given up his claim to that money, in exchange for whatever Couhig just gave him in cash.

Couhig paid £25m in cash to Dai for the privilege of taking that debt off his hands. In accounting terms Couhig has acquired a "bargain", but in reality, Dai had no options left, and he was never going to get that £90m so Dai gets £25m cash and Couhig picks up a club on the cheap, who theoretically one day will give him a big pay day if he can realise that debt he picked up on the cheap.

Yeah I’m even more confused. The debt was owed to dai. If Dai has written off the debt. Why is there still debt? And why has it passed on to couhig.

Anyone else confused by this or am i just being a melt and I should just back away from the thread?

It's probably easier to look at like this.

Couhig paid Dai nothing for the club - what he has bought off him is 90m worth of debt that the club owed Dai for 25m - owning the institution is the easiest way to do that.. He will then run the club in such a way so that they ensure that the only debt the club has is to them - so all suppliers paid on time, minimal to no football debts etc.

Then in say 2 or 3 years, the debt to them may have grown but the value of the club will have as well - so lets say we get promoted under their watch and he chooses to sell a stable Champ club in 2029.

The club may now owe his company 100m but have no internal debts whilst also owning the stadium and training ground - they could then sell the club (and more importantly the debt) to the next owner for 50m and make a tidy profit,

[Royal Rother]

But the question was ‘is all debt now owned by couhig’ and it appears to me some is, some isn’t.

Maybe I am being thick/pedantic, but they might now own the 'debt', but it might still sit with a 3rd party institution - otherwise what has happened to the £90M that was in the latest figures...?

The 90m debt is still an RFC debt. It was owed to Mr Dai. He sold that debt to Mr Couhig. Mr Couhig is now owed £90m or whatever it is from RFC. He has said he doesn't plan to call it in. It will be bundled into the sales price negotiation when he sells the club to the next owner.

Not sure that’s strictly true.

The debt can’t be in 2 places at the same time. Sounds like it has been transferred / written off of RFC’s Balance Sheet to the other company Couhig referred to.

[Snowflake Royal]

is it? info seems a bit flaky to 100% confirm the statement as fact. from couhigs interview with craig, he send there was still 'vendor' debt, and gave an example of not paying for the car park (which he is sorting). What wasn't stated was, is all debt, including vendor debt, owned by couhig now, or is some of it still on the club...

He is settling trading debts that remain on the books, but not monies owed to Dai for his capital injections.

I thought that was the question being asked - probably my misunderstanding.

(I must have zoned out (or crunched too hard on my cornflakes) when he said 90p in the £ on those trading debts that others have referred to, as I don't recall him saying that.)

Sorry, I'm even more confused.

I wasn't talking about trading debt, but rather the £90M or so that are on the books and presumably owed to institutions that DY borrowed it from or DY himself

If its owed to Dai, the debt is gone. Couhig bought the club for £xm. That's all Dai is getting back.

[Brogue]

He is settling trading debts that remain on the books, but not monies owed to Dai for his capital injections.

I thought that was the question being asked - probably my misunderstanding.

(I must have zoned out (or crunched too hard on my cornflakes) when he said 90p in the £ on those trading debts that others have referred to, as I don't recall him saying that.)

Sorry, I'm even more confused.

I wasn't talking about trading debt, but rather the £90M or so that are on the books and presumably owed to institutions that DY borrowed it from or DY himself

If its owed to Dai, the debt is gone. Couhig bought the club for £xm. That's all Dai is getting back.

So why does the debt still exist.

If Dai was owed 90 mill. And that debt was on the club. And couhig has just bought the club for 25 million. And dai is getting nothing more. Why does the club owe couhig the rest of the money?. That debt to dai no longer exists. Dai has written it off.

[Snowflake Royal]

The 90m debt is still an RFC debt. It was owed to Mr Dai. He sold that debt to Mr Couhig. Mr Couhig is now owed £90m or whatever it is from RFC. He has said he doesn't plan to call it in. It will be bundled into the sales price negotiation when he sells the club to the next owner.

So how does debt transfer work? Couhig has paid dai 90mill on top of the sale price? So he has just bought reading fc for the equivalent price of 115 million? And then he’s just going to sit on that debt for the next ‘x’ amount of years without cashing it in? That would seem a very odd business deal and unlikely. Help me understand here. What am I getting wrong?

And I’m not being a pcunt here. I’m genuinely asking as I don’t know, and I’m trying to understand.

I remember back in the day Ken bates sold Chelsea to abramovich for £1 as Abramovich took the debt on. Not sure why couhig has paid 25 million for the club if he’s taking on the debt as well.

It's confusing because people aren't used to people giving up on money.

Dai was owed £90m + but he has given up his claim to that money, in exchange for whatever Couhig just gave him in cash.

Couhig paid £25m in cash to Dai for the privilege of taking that debt off his hands. In accounting terms Couhig has acquired a "bargain", but in reality, Dai had no options left, and he was never going to get that £90m so Dai gets £25m cash and Couhig picks up a club on the cheap, who theoretically one day will give him a big pay day if he can realise that debt he picked up on the cheap.

Brogue, you buy a new car for £20k. You drive the shit out of it, putting 20k miles on the clock over 3 years, spending another £10k on new rims, a new clutch, breaks, lights and a stereo, none of which works properly because you're a fool. That car is £30k of debt to you.

You sell it to Rob Couhig for £5k because you've treated it like shit and its a wreck.

Rob Couhig now has a £5k car that he needs to spend another £5k fixing, but the rest of the car's £25k debt to is gone. Couhig paid you 17p in the £ for your debt.

Is the only way I can see it working.

Any debt owed to someone other than Dai, will now be owed by Couhig, unless something otherwise was agreed in the sale.

The money the club owes Dai is wiped. The club now owes Couhig the money he paid for it.

[Winston Biscuit]

Lock The Thread!

Say NO To The 500!

[Snowflake Royal]

Sorry, I'm even more confused.

I wasn't talking about trading debt, but rather the £90M or so that are on the books and presumably owed to institutions that DY borrowed it from or DY himself

If its owed to Dai, the debt is gone. Couhig bought the club for £xm. That's all Dai is getting back.

So why does the debt still exist.

If Dai was owed 90 mill. And that debt was on the club. And couhig has just bought the club for 25 million. And dai is getting nothing more. Why does the club owe couhig the rest of the money?. That debt to dai no longer exists. Dai has written it off.

I think you're conflating all debt into one.

The club owed Dai £xm
The club owed third parties £ym

The majority of our debt was to Dai, hence why we were never in real danger of creditors winding us up and going into administration, it was sale or liquidation.

The club no longer owes Dai anything.
The club will still owe third parties £ym
The club now owes Couhig the sale price.

[Esteban]

If its owed to Dai, the debt is gone. Couhig bought the club for £xm. That's all Dai is getting back.

So why does the debt still exist.

If Dai was owed 90 mill. And that debt was on the club. And couhig has just bought the club for 25 million. And dai is getting nothing more. Why does the club owe couhig the rest of the money?. That debt to dai no longer exists. Dai has written it off.

I think you're conflating all debt into one.

The club owed Dai £xm
The club owed third parties £ym

The majority of our debt was to Dai, hence why we were never in real danger of creditors winding us up and going into administration, it was sale or liquidation.

The club no longer owes Dai anything.
The club will still owe third parties £ym
The club now owes Couhig the sale price.

This is how I understood it, too. The £90m on the books is a bit of a red herring, because it's effectively the value of the club - which is now only £25m, given that's what Couhig paid for it.

Couhig said in the interview with Craig that he's close to settling some of the debts the club had to vendors. When we get the next set of accounts, that £90m should be closer to £25m, plus any other debts the club has that Couhig hasn't managed to settle.

At least I think that's right...

[MartinRdg]

If its owed to Dai, the debt is gone. Couhig bought the club for £xm. That's all Dai is getting back.

So why does the debt still exist.

If Dai was owed 90 mill. And that debt was on the club. And couhig has just bought the club for 25 million. And dai is getting nothing more. Why does the club owe couhig the rest of the money?. That debt to dai no longer exists. Dai has written it off.

I think you're conflating all debt into one.

The club owed Dai £xm
The club owed third parties £ym

The majority of our debt was to Dai, hence why we were never in real danger of creditors winding us up and going into administration, it was sale or liquidation.

The club no longer owes Dai anything.
The club will still owe third parties £ym
The club now owes Couhig the sale price.

That would be my understanding of it as well

[Royal Rother]

The club shouldn't owe Couhig the Sale Price.

He bought the shares from Dai for £25m. Depending on his actions and the success of the club the value of those shares will increase in value (or not) but buying those shares should not have created a debt to Couhig.

[Greatwesternline]

The club shouldn't owe Couhig the Sale Price.

He bought the shares from Dai for £25m. Depending on his actions and the success of the club the value of those shares will increase in value (or not) but buying those shares should not have created a debt to Couhig.

The £25m that Couhig paid Dai is a red herring in terms of working out the debt.

That £25m is a transaction between Couhig and Dai, not RFC. When you buy a house you don't give money to the house, you give money to the previous owner.

Couhig bought a company from Dai, a compand such as RFC has debts, and assets,, he bought them all. As part of that agreement Dai sold the clubs debt that was owed to him (an asset for him) to Couhig, Couhig said this in that interview that has been posted.

So Dai sold the rights to that debt to Couhig, so now that debt (an asset to its owner) belongs to Couhig, he also said that in his interview.

It's possible that Couhig borrowed some money from somewhere else to buy the club, and has secured that debt against the club. He would be entitled to do that. But he hasn't said he's done that. So we won't know, till the accounts come out.