Is Administration A Bad Thing?

[Vision]

Is it simply a case of losing 10 points and having a transfer embargo being worth the risk of knowingly overspending in order to potentially live the dream (whatever the oxf*rd that means)?

Take Pompey as an example?
European football and an FA Cup final win Vs Being the first top level side into administration and within hours of losing the club completely (even allowing that we all hope/think someone would save us at the last minute).

Is it a fair trade off? I realise that going into administration and coming close to going out of business are not necessarily the same two things but do you as supporters feel any sense of morality when it comes down to the club though?.

Also do fans of clubs that come close to the brink actually have a bigger sense of belonging when they know how close they came to losing it. Are they actually more content as fans to simply have their beloved club to still watch when they know how close they came to losing it completely.

What if the ultimate does happen and your club goes under completely? If you could form an alternative club, start at the bottom rung of the league ladder a la Aldershot, and try to work your way back up, would that actually be such a terrible thing. Would it actually give you a far better (and cheaper) match day experience week in week out?

[WoodleyRoyal]

imo no, i would feel it is like cheating would much rather do it the proper way

[Svlad Cjelli]

Palace fans last season were so happy to still have a club to support that they couldn't give a monkey's where they finished - so nearly losing a club does put into perspective the constant cries for more and more success. It does also force supporters to think more about where it all comes from and what the value of the club to them is, and what their relationship with it is.

But although administration was taken lightly until recently, it's getting more and more significant - administration involving HMRC carries a further points penalty, and everything is tightening up. Although there have been 56 Football League "insolvency events" since the PL was formed in 1992, these days they are looked on more seriously - as everyone is much more aware of debt in the game.

For supporters it may not be as significant in the short term (although you don't just wipe the slate clean and start again these days - banks see to that, and, for instance, won't allow credit or the use of credit cards some times) but there is quite likely to be a change of owner, and every change to an unknown owner for a club desperate for a "white knight" is a major gamble - you're much more likely to get a crook or an asset-stripper when a club is in administration than being well-run.

And those at AFC Wimbledon, AFC Telford, Halifax FC, FCUM, the new Scarborough etc really love it (the downs as well as the ups) - they have a genuine stake and real participation in "their" club - and also get to watch games at reasonable prices, to stand and drink while watching, whilst not being hassled by stewards and charged through the nose for merchandise etc. Lots of people are giving up on "big" clubs to return to non-league - even better to do it with your own club.

[Schards#2]

Personally, I go to watch football as an entertainment and something to, hopefully, get excited about and indulge in being a bit irrational over in a way that you can't be in your day to day life.

As such, if the club I supports priority and mentality becomes to simply be economically stable and viable beyond all else, then it's not really ticking the boxes of why I got to watch them. I may want stability in my normal life but football is about a bit of escapism and living the dream. If I was motivated by sound economics, i'd be cheering on my personal favourite from the FTSE 100 week in week out.

Clearly, there is a balance to be struck but I feel Reading have gone too far in the direction of caution and I would like to see them roll the dice occassionally. On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours as, simply, it would have been more exciting and stimulating with wonderful highs and desperate lows. That, to me, is what makes football worth watching and if you lose that factor that sets the adreneline flowing, it becomes just another passtime.

[Svlad Cjelli]

To add to this (with reference to some of what SJM has recently been saying and posts about that) - administration also helps supporters understand more about football finance and the massive constraints that clubs operate under in football's current broken financial model.

Many think that it's all about transfer fees and that salaries are irrelevant, but administration does help many actually understand that clubs outside the top half of the PL operate under such shitty financial conditions that frequent calls for the moon on a stick, paid for by someone else, are suddenly put into proper context.

[roadrunner]

Personally, I go to watch football as an entertainment and something to, hopefully, get excited about and indulge in being a bit irrational over in a way that you can't be in your day to day life.

As such, if the club I supports priority and mentality becomes to simply be economically stable and viable beyond all else, then it's not really ticking the boxes of why I got to watch them. I may want stability in my normal life but football is about a bit of escapism and living the dream. If I was motivated by sound economics, i'd be cheering on my personal favourite from the FTSE 100 week in week out.

Clearly, there is a balance to be struck but I feel Reading have gone too far in the direction of caution and I would like to see them roll the dice occassionally. On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours as, simply, it would have been more exciting and stimulating with wonderful highs and desperate lows. That, to me, is what makes football worth watching and if you lose that factor that sets the adreneline flowing, it becomes just another passtime.

Have to agree with pretty much all of that.

[Royal Rother]

Personally, I go to watch football as an entertainment and something to, hopefully, get excited about and indulge in being a bit irrational over in a way that you can't be in your day to day life.

As such, if the club I supports priority and mentality becomes to simply be economically stable and viable beyond all else, then it's not really ticking the boxes of why I got to watch them. I may want stability in my normal life but football is about a bit of escapism and living the dream. If I was motivated by sound economics, i'd be cheering on my personal favourite from the FTSE 100 week in week out.

Clearly, there is a balance to be struck but I feel Reading have gone too far in the direction of caution and I would like to see them roll the dice occassionally. On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours as, simply, it would have been more exciting and stimulating with wonderful highs and desperate lows. That, to me, is what makes football worth watching and if you lose that factor that sets the adreneline flowing, it becomes just another passtime.

Interesting. I wouldn't have had you down as a fan of "boom and bust".

[Svlad Cjelli]

Personally, I go to watch football as an entertainment and something to, hopefully, get excited about and indulge in being a bit irrational over in a way that you can't be in your day to day life.

As such, if the club I supports priority and mentality becomes to simply be economically stable and viable beyond all else, then it's not really ticking the boxes of why I got to watch them. I may want stability in my normal life but football is about a bit of escapism and living the dream. If I was motivated by sound economics, i'd be cheering on my personal favourite from the FTSE 100 week in week out.

Clearly, there is a balance to be struck but I feel Reading have gone too far in the direction of caution and I would like to see them roll the dice occassionally. On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours as, simply, it would have been more exciting and stimulating with wonderful highs and desperate lows. That, to me, is what makes football worth watching and if you lose that factor that sets the adreneline flowing, it becomes just another passtime.

Yes, but you can't have it both ways. If you don't want to be interested in economics and football's financial model, you can't complain when the club don't do what you want them too, financially. It's either understand the whole financial side or just don't get involved in it. Not aimed at you, BTW, by there are currently way, way too many people who don't understand football finance or know anything about the figures concerned, but are more than happy to yell out about what the club *should* be doing.

Personally, I know far more than I want to about this, and absolutely hate what I know - the model is so weighted against non-PL clubs that it's a miracle that any manage to survive at all - and it's only going to get worse over the next few seasons.

So I'm delighted that the club I support has managed to find a model that lets them both compete and survive - a model that the rest of the game is moving towards.

But I also wish we could talk football and not money - but that ideal died with the FA's surrender over Rule 34 and the subsequent events leading up to 1992.

[Schards#2]

Personally, I go to watch football as an entertainment and something to, hopefully, get excited about and indulge in being a bit irrational over in a way that you can't be in your day to day life.

As such, if the club I supports priority and mentality becomes to simply be economically stable and viable beyond all else, then it's not really ticking the boxes of why I got to watch them. I may want stability in my normal life but football is about a bit of escapism and living the dream. If I was motivated by sound economics, i'd be cheering on my personal favourite from the FTSE 100 week in week out.

Clearly, there is a balance to be struck but I feel Reading have gone too far in the direction of caution and I would like to see them roll the dice occassionally. On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours as, simply, it would have been more exciting and stimulating with wonderful highs and desperate lows. That, to me, is what makes football worth watching and if you lose that factor that sets the adreneline flowing, it becomes just another passtime.

Interesting. I wouldn't have had you down as a fan of "boom and bust".

Well, that's the difference, (in my mind), between 'the real world' where I would be of a relatively cautious disposition and wouldn't take risks I could not afford to lose and my 'football world' where you can enjoy the highs and lows without massive personal consequences if it all goes wrong.

In the worst case scenario of a 'Chester City' I'd probably still go and probably still enjoy it just as much. I'd hope not to indulge in the orgy of self righteousness that supporters of such clubs always seem to gorge themselves on though.

[Svlad Cjelli]

.......
In the worst case scenario of a 'Chester City' I'd probably still go and probably still enjoy it just as much. I'd hope not to indulge in the orgy of self righteousness that supporters of such clubs always seem to gorge themselves on though.

Just think what they'd be like if they also cycled to matches......

[Tony Le Mesmer]

On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours

Come on, you serious? I would be ashamed to be fan of a club run like that.

[Svlad Cjelli]

On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours

Come on, you serious? I would be ashamed to be fan of a club run like that.

Good point, well made.

Success that's earned is surely worth far more than success obtained unfairly (if there is actually any value at all in the latter).

[Schards#2]

On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours

Come on, you serious? I would be ashamed to be fan of a club run like that.

If you are looking to support a club on the basis of its ethics, you are going to go a long way to find one that's squeaky clean. Didn't Reading refuse to write off a few hundred quid owed by Exeter to save them from administration? Didn't they renage on a contractual payment to a player on some technicality or other? Don't we have our fair share of divers?

Shame, outrage, pride, disgust, anger. They are all strong emotions, watching a club prioritise blandly financially ticking over doesn't generate these and without them football ceases to be the outlet and the escapism it should be.

[papereyes]

Clearly, there is a balance to be struck but I feel Reading have gone too far in the direction of caution and I would like to see them roll the dice occassionally. On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours as, simply, it would have been more exciting and stimulating with wonderful highs and desperate lows. That, to me, is what makes football worth watching and if you lose that factor that sets the adreneline flowing, it becomes just another passtime.

I think our main problem is that we did roll the dice (but no-one really realised we were doing it) and it went wrong (when the team imploded, second half of that first season down).

We spent a lot trying to keep the squad together that first season down. It didn't work.

[Carlos]

Personally, I go to watch football as an entertainment and something to, hopefully, get excited about and indulge in being a bit irrational over in a way that you can't be in your day to day life.

As such, if the club I supports priority and mentality becomes to simply be economically stable and viable beyond all else, then it's not really ticking the boxes of why I got to watch them. I may want stability in my normal life but football is about a bit of escapism and living the dream. If I was motivated by sound economics, i'd be cheering on my personal favourite from the FTSE 100 week in week out.

Clearly, there is a balance to be struck but I feel Reading have gone too far in the direction of caution and I would like to see them roll the dice occassionally. On balance, I would rather have lived through Portsmouth last four years than ours as, simply, it would have been more exciting and stimulating with wonderful highs and desperate lows. That, to me, is what makes football worth watching and if you lose that factor that sets the adreneline flowing, it becomes just another passtime.

Interesting. I wouldn't have had you down as a fan of "boom and bust".

Well, that's the difference, (in my mind), between 'the real world' where I would be of a relatively cautious disposition and wouldn't take risks I could not afford to lose and my 'football world' where you can enjoy the highs and lows without massive personal consequences if it all goes wrong.

Thing is if Reading gambled and didn't make it (quite likely given the amount of money that has gone into a number of teams this season) there would be personal consequences if we went into admisistration. How many people's jobs depend on Reading FC being able to pay it's bills? I would guess quite a few and not just highly paid players - support staff, caterers, admin, ticket office - the list goes on. If Reading went into administration the majority would lose thier jobs. A number of people lost jobs when we got relegated. I bet they couldn't enjoy our last season in the Prem 'without massive personal consequences'.

[Terminal Boardom]

Depends on how one quantifies success. I would hazard a guess that the majority of football fans don't give a toss about anything other than success. Isn't it about the trophies in the cabinet and not the bank balance?

[Svlad Cjelli]

Depends on how one quantifies success. I would hazard a guess that the majority of football fans don't give a toss about anything other than success. Isn't it about the trophies in the cabinet and not the bank balance?

You're right, although less so than it used to be - and certainly not for supporters of clubs who've been in administration. But that's just another of the many things critically wrong with football today - supporters' unrealistic expectations.

[Platypuss]

If Reading went into administration the majority would lose thier jobs.

"If higher unemployment is the price we have to pay in order to bring success, then it is a price worth paying."

[Terminal Boardom]

Depends on how one quantifies success. I would hazard a guess that the majority of football fans don't give a toss about anything other than success. Isn't it about the trophies in the cabinet and not the bank balance?

You're right, although less so than it used to be - and certainly not for supporters of clubs who've been in administration. But that's just another of the many things critically wrong with football today - supporters' unrealistic expectations.

And therein lies the crux of the problem.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Depends on how one quantifies success. I would hazard a guess that the majority of football fans don't give a toss about anything other than success. Isn't it about the trophies in the cabinet and not the bank balance?

You're right, although less so than it used to be - and certainly not for supporters of clubs who've been in administration. But that's just another of the many things critically wrong with football today - supporters' unrealistic expectations.

And therein lies the crux of the problem.

Quite! By the paradox is that while we have a business model that protects us from flirting with administration it means that those unrealistic expectations can be expanded exponentially here - especially for those more recent supporters who've only known "good times." (What JSM alluded to yesterday)