Early window/formation

[jellytot]

Two things for discussion. Firstly, the transfer window and finally our formation 4-5-1.

We play WBA on jan 12th at home which is a must win. Taking into account our current plight
I believe that we must DO almost all of of our transfer business in the first 10 days of jan.
New players need time to settle in and we need points in every game going forward. Hopefully BM
And the board are ready to bring in new blood soon. Minimum neededbis a class cm, Cb and maybe keeper cover. May even need a mobile striker too. We should keep Pearce even if he wants out.

My final point is 4-5-1. I think go with it in most away games so we can pick up points (draws).
At home we need two up front because we need to create enough to win. Perhaps agianst big boysbrevert back to 4-5-1. Or perhaps we have to play with wing backs to keep 3 in cm and two up front at home 5 (3)- 3 (5)- 2?

[Arnie_Pie]

Two things for discussion.

Or maybe not.

[SPARTA]

Two things for discussion. Firstly, the transfer window and finally our formation 4-5-1.

We play WBA on jan 12th at home which is a must win. Taking into account our current plight
I believe that we must DO almost all of of our transfer business in the first 10 days of jan.
New players need time to settle in and we need points in every game going forward. Hopefully BM
And the board are ready to bring in new blood soon. Minimum neededbis a class cm, Cb and maybe keeper cover. May even need a mobile striker too. We should keep Pearce even if he wants out.

My final point is 4-5-1. I think go with it in most away games so we can pick up points (draws).
At home we need two up front because we need to create enough to win. Perhaps agianst big boysbrevert back to 4-5-1. Or perhaps we have to play with wing backs to keep 3 in cm and two up front at home 5 (3)- 3 (5)- 2?

Most sides play 4-5-1 home and away. It is in essence a 4-3-3 when you are attacking, and a 4-5-1 when defending. I like it, but we need to add creativity and a better defensive midfielder if we are going to be successful using it.

Any new players will not be afforded time to settle. They are expected to hit the ground running.

WBA is not a must win unless we can take 4 points from the next two home games. We may as well prep for next season if we reach mid Jan with a gap of 9 points of more.

[marcusopp]

The main problem with playing 4-3-3 is that our best players are out wide. McAnuff is versatile, but the others are out and out wingers, so we kind of have to go 4-4-4 or 4-5-1.

[AirRaidSiren]

We don't have the squad to play a 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation.

In order for this formation to work like it should, you need a striker who has a massive work rate, and can hold the ball up, basicly you need Shane Long or Kevin Davies, we don't have anyone like that in the team.
Then you need wingers who can score goals as well as track back and defend, that we do have in HRK and Kebe.
On to midfield, you need two allrounders, box-to-box players who can also pass and shoot well, and you need a defensive midfielder who will act as a playmaker - this is where "the master plan" falls to pieces for us. We don't have any of those three players. We've got two limited defensive midfielders who can't pass for shit, one limited box-to-box player in tabb who can't shoot for shit and not a very good passer, and the rest isn't worth talking about - Gunnarsson? Come on.
Then for defence, you need wingbacks who can bomb on and get forward, Shorey 10 years ago would have done the trick but at the current time, I doubt it, then for right back we've got nobody.

As you can see it is plain as day that we do not have the players to play like that.

+1 Spot on

[Mr.T10]

We don't have the squad to play a 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation.

In order for this formation to work like it should, you need a striker who has a massive work rate, and can hold the ball up, basicly you need Shane Long or Kevin Davies, we don't have anyone like that in the team.
Then you need wingers who can score goals as well as track back and defend, that we do have in HRK and Kebe.
On to midfield, you need two allrounders, box-to-box players who can also pass and shoot well, and you need a defensive midfielder who will act as a playmaker - this is where "the master plan" falls to pieces for us. We don't have any of those three players. We've got two limited defensive midfielders who can't pass for shit, one limited box-to-box player in tabb who can't shoot for shit and not a very good passer, and the rest isn't worth talking about - Gunnarsson? Come on.
Then for defence, you need wingbacks who can bomb on and get forward, Shorey 10 years ago would have done the trick but at the current time, I doubt it, then for right back we've got nobody.

As you can see it is plain as day that we do not have the players to play like that.

Disagree. We have the ability to turn to our side in a very effective 4-5-1 and with two signings in january even more so. Team to aim for this season/next season.

Federici/McCarthy, Gunter, Pearce, Mariappa/ Morrison, Shorey/ LB, Karacan, Guthrie, Kebe, McCleary ATM/CAM, McAnuff/HRK, Le Fondre

A CDM who is like a Diame or Tetley would really strengthen our midfield and give competition for Guthrie and Karacan. We need to start playing so we win the midfield and the only way of doing that is playing 4-5-1.

[SCIAG]

we kind of have to go 4-4-4

YES to 4-4-4.

[Radders]

The main problem with playing 4-3-3 is that our best players are out wide. McAnuff is versatile, but the others are out and out wingers, so we kind of have to go 4-4-4 or 4-5-1.

If we can, I suggest the former

[jellytot]

West Brom is a must win game. We need 8 or 9 wins plus a few draws to have any chance of staying
Up. Furthermore most will have to come at home.

We will know more come mid Jan when we see if Brian signs a load of unproven players or good championship players OR the two or three quality signings we need. All the talk of staying up will be academic anyway if we.delay. Our form needs to transform not stutter along. Got to win next two home games. Knowing bm he will then say our
squad is fine!

Hate hum saying what a small club we are and look where we have come from! wigan are much
Smaller and they compete do too qpr. Southampton we are on a par with. We have so much
potential and we should talk it up rather than complaining like a bullied child! If swansea can build a decent team we can Hammond!

Hope Leig and Jm are moved on soon they are not up to it.

[Mr.T10]

Disagree. We have the ability to turn to our side in a very effective 4-5-1 and with two signings in january even more so.

You come out with this claim, yet you show that you completely fail to understand what makes that formation work, and which types of player are required.
Basicly you spout rubbish.

Two CDM sit IN FRONT the CB's given much needed protection against back four, able to pass the ball and keep the ball. Attacking CAM who is not afraid to shoot and take on his man. Two wide men who can run the channels.

It's not the most complicating formation going and can be very dynamic. The reason 4-5-1 didn't work beforehand is because McDermott thought it is a good idea to stick Guthrie behind the ST.

Doesn't work? I have pretty much said what Chelsea, Norwich, Swansea, Arsenal, West Ham and thats just naming a few use when they play 4-5-1.

Do you want to throw your toys out even more?

[blueroyals]

We don't have the squad to play a 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation.

In order for this formation to work like it should, you need a striker who has a massive work rate, and can hold the ball up, basicly you need Shane Long or Kevin Davies, we don't have anyone like that in the team.
Then you need wingers who can score goals as well as track back and defend, that we do have in HRK and Kebe.
On to midfield, you need two allrounders, box-to-box players who can also pass and shoot well, and you need a defensive midfielder who will act as a playmaker - this is where "the master plan" falls to pieces for us. We don't have any of those three players. We've got two limited defensive midfielders who can't pass for shit, one limited box-to-box player in tabb who can't shoot for shit and not a very good passer, and the rest isn't worth talking about - Gunnarsson? Come on.
Then for defence, you need wingbacks who can bomb on and get forward, Shorey 10 years ago would have done the trick but at the current time, I doubt it, then for right back we've got nobody.

As you can see it is plain as day that we do not have the players to play like that.

This. Although I think Karacan and Tabb are box-to-box type players, and Guthrie our DM/ playmaker. Still, we don't have enough quality at left wing and we don't have a Shane Long-type striker as you say.

Good post.

[jellytot]

My understanding of 4-5-1 is that you have two holding midfielders who sit in front of the two centre backs. In our case Jem plus a new signing and more of a play maker who can score who sits behind the striker and develops attacks. In our case we only have Guthrie who has the range of pass to do that and we probably need to sign another passer to cover or replace him. You then have two wingers who bomb forward with one getting in the box on a regular basis.

I also like 5-3-2 because you employ a sweeper behind two cbs and two sitting cm's in front of the defense. Then you have a creative cm who sits behind two strikers. You do need two wing backs who are quick and can provide a good service from the flanks. The cb's have to move across to cover when the wing backs go forward. I used this system when I had a youth team and like it a lot. You are bloody strong down the middle with this system.

Of course when you play a system you have to have the players to do it.. Do we have the wing backs with the pace and energy? Not sure. Kebe seemed bothered to track back yesterday BUT sorry to say some players might be hoping to move on in January?

[Mr.T10]

My understanding of 4-5-1 is that you have two holding midfielders who sit in front of the two centre backs.

No, usually you have one holding midfielder and two box-to-box type midfielders.
Your holding midfielder needs to be capable of performing in a playmaker type role, so he needs to be creative and good at passing the ball.
You need two box-to-box type midfielders who can get up and support the lone striker in an attack, otherwise you'll never in a million years score a goal. The object is for these two midfielders to make the runs forward and if/when a cross comes in they will act as a secondary type striker role.

If you think it is as simple as having a few extra guys to sit in front of midfield, then you've completely missed what makes this formation work.

I think you are missing the whole point.... A 4-5-1 is a dynamic formation. What we are talking more about is more of a 4-2-3-1 but it still has 5 across midfield. Just because you think that is the "correct" way you would play a 4-5-1 does not make it right, we are actually trying to use what we have got unlike you.

We need to start tightening up at the back and in the midfield before we can confidently go for the win. Look what Norwich did they tightened up and now are flying, I wish we did it a lot sooner.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Expecting nothing. If anything does happen it's bound to be right at the end of the month. It's the Reading way you know.

[jellytot]

Think any formation can be adapted to suit. Key thing is to have the players for the formation.

We need to find a formation that works for us. Norwich have. Admittedly they have better players.

Our main problem is we have almost no quality at pl level. Surely Brian knows that you cannot do
much with a load of one hundred percenters.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes

[LoyalRoyal22]

At the end of the day we currently do not have a squad of players who would be able to compete in this division no matter which tactic we employ.
The quality just isn't there. We are a good championship team taking a step too far.

Agree but if we can get 2-3 players of Prem quality in Jan, we have potential of putting a little run together

[Millsy]

At the end of the day we currently do not have a squad of players who would be able to compete in this division no matter which tactic we employ.
The quality just isn't there. We are a good championship team taking a step too far.

Agree but if we can get 2-3 players of Prem quality in Jan, we have potential of putting a little run together

Agree, it only takes one or two decent players and well be fine.

Unfortunately we chose to let those good players, Pog and Guthrie, be freebies. You get what you pay for.

[Mr.T10]

At the end of the day we currently do not have a squad of players who would be able to compete in this division no matter which tactic we employ.
The quality just isn't there. We are a good championship team taking a step too far.

Agree but if we can get 2-3 players of Prem quality in Jan, we have potential of putting a little run together

Agree, it only takes one or two decent players and well be fine.

Unfortunately we chose to let those good players, Pog and Guthrie, be freebies. You get what you pay for.

You get what you select and set the tactics up as...

Guthrie, CF.
Gorkss carried on playing, Pearce dropped.
Legsofwood still playing.
McAnuff still playing.
Hoofing it up to Pog.
Relying on Roberts to fall over and win free kicks.
Not knowing your first 11.
Not tightening up away.
Going all out against big teams.
Thinking a point is not good enough, so lets throw away a valuable point.

McDermotts selection and tactics have been our downfall more so. Lets hope he has learned of which we saw against Citeh. Lets start picking up points and give it ago, if we go down at least we gave it our best.