The second season Syndrome.

[The 17 Bus]

can anyone pull up any figures on this, as to me is a load of balls that just seems to have been accepted, there wont be one for Watford, and others have done fine in the second season, they really only try to apply it to smaller clubs IMHO, even West Ham are not really accused of it, it is mostly aimed at Wigan.

[el_presidente]

can anyone pull up any figures on this, as to me is a load of balls that just seems to have been accepted, there wont be one for Watford, and others have done fine in the second season, they really only try to apply it to smaller clubs IMHO, even West Ham are not really accused of it, it is mostly aimed at Wigan.

It is just a buzzword for lazy journalists

teams such as Bolton, Charlton, Fulham and Man City have come up from extended spells in the lower divisions and had no problems consolidating their premier status.

[Mr Angry]

Its all a load of rubbish.

Statistically, in the 14 years of the Premiership, 22 teams promoted up have survived their first Year in the Premiership; for the theory that there was a "2nd season syndrome", you would have to accept that a large proportion of those 22 teams would be relegated the 2nd season......say, 50%???

Of the 22 teams, 4 were relegated the 2nd season; 17.5%

Of the remaining 18, 11 survived for at least 5 years.

In other words, survive the first season, and you have a 50/50 chance of surviving at least 5 seasons in the Premiership.

[Behindu]

From what I see this 'syndrome' applies to West Ham, Wigan and Ipswich who all had a very good first season and a poor second.

Many more clubs have a shocking first (and only) season and plenty get trhough the second season and go on to have a third or more.

Not sure how many have a decent first and then an average second but the 'syndrome' should only really be applied to those who have a really good 1st (ie top 10) and then a really bad 2nd (relegation or narrow escape). A first season finishing 9th and a second season finishing 12th is not what it's about.

If there are 3 clubs who have had 2nd season sysndrome I'd argue for Fulham, Bolton, Man City and Charlton as examples who have made it through - that's one more than the number who haven't just off the top of my head.

[papereyes]

Its all a load of rubbish.

Statistically, in the 14 years of the Premiership, 22 teams promoted up have survived their first Year in the Premiership; for the theory that there was a "2nd season syndrome", you would have to accept that a large proportion of those 22 teams would be relegated the 2nd season......say, 50%???

Of the 22 teams, 4 were relegated the 2nd season; 17.5%

Of the remaining 18, 11 survived for at least 5 years.

In other words, survive the first season, and you have a 50/50 chance of surviving at least 5 seasons in the Premiership.

But most clubs do worse in their second season.

In terms of positions, I made it three that improved their position.

Basically, if you're struggling already, you'd be odds on to go down. If you're safely midtable or higher, you'll probably drop a bit, but odds on to stay up.

In terms of points? Well, I haven't looked.

[Uke]

Blackburn were worse in their second season in the Prem

[Behindu]

But most clubs do worse in their second season.

.

You'd expect half the teams in the division to do a little worse one season then the previous. Few teams stay in the same spot for 2 seasons running and not all can improve (OK I know they could all rise 1 place if the top team dropped to the bottom !).

Second season syndrome must require that a team in it's second season not only does significantly worse than it did the season before but also worse than the vast majority of other teams comparing one season with the previous.

If we finish 12th next year and Bolton finish 16th with Spurs in 10th have we suffered 'second season syndrome' ? I would argue not.

[aaronrfc]

Its all a load of rubbish.

Statistically, in the 14 years of the Premiership, 22 teams promoted up have survived their first Year in the Premiership; for the theory that there was a "2nd season syndrome", you would have to accept that a large proportion of those 22 teams would be relegated the 2nd season......say, 50%???

Of the 22 teams, 4 were relegated the 2nd season; 17.5%

Of the remaining 18, 11 survived for at least 5 years.

In other words, survive the first season, and you have a 50/50 chance of surviving at least 5 seasons in the Premiership.

But most clubs do worse in their second season.

In terms of positions, I made it three that improved their position.

Basically, if you're struggling already, you'd be odds on to go down. If you're safely midtable or higher, you'll probably drop a bit, but odds on to stay up.

In terms of points? Well, I haven't looked.

that sounds abou right. so basically nothing to worry about. and remember, we have SSC!

[papereyes]

Blackburn were worse in their second season in the Prem

No they weren't.

[papereyes]

But most clubs do worse in their second season.

.

You'd expect half the teams in the division to do a little worse one season then the previous. Few teams stay in the same spot for 2 seasons running and not all can improve (OK I know they could all rise 1 place if the top team dropped to the bottom !).

Second season syndrome must require that a team in it's second season not only does significantly worse than it did the season before but also worse than the vast majority of other teams comparing one season with the previous.

If we finish 12th next year and Bolton finish 16th with Spurs in 10th have we suffered 'second season syndrome' ? I would argue not.

OK.

I think we're deluded if we think we're going to do as well.

It's not impossible. Just quite unlikely. 6 points worse off and a few positions would be a half-decent return.

[Behindu]

Agreed.

Target next season should be the same as it was this season.

Head for 40 points and safety, then kick on from there.

After 2 years in the top flight we should then be upping our expectations and I would hope that in season 3 we set ourselves the genuine goal of a UEFA cup place.

Not saying we can;t do it next season, but as with this year it would be a massive achievement to do it, and we can't have a fairy tale EVERY season (can we /)

[Hoop Blah]

I think the syndrome is just as much about players as it is clubs, if not more so to be honest.

It seems more diffuclt to reproduce good form once opposition have sussed you out a bit and you're no longer an unknown quantity. The momentum built up from winning week in week out in the Championship will also have died down a bit, and every week will not seem like a new adventure to players and fans alike and for our players it's going to tough to keep their very high standards.

[brendywendy]

I think the syndrome is just as much about players as it is clubs, if not more so to be honest.

It seems more diffuclt to reproduce good form once opposition have sussed you out a bit and you're no longer an unknown quantity. The momentum built up from winning week in week out in the Championship will also have died down a bit, and every week will not seem like a new adventure to players and fans alike and for our players it's going to tough to keep their very high standards.

i hate all this rubbish about players and teams being "worked out"
what a load of rubbish

i have "worked out" how ronaldo plays and what he does, when he tries the step over, but this in no way guarantees i would be able to stop him doing it
i have worked out the way that chelsea play, direct, quickly to the front 1,2 or three, strong physical and athletic players etc

does this mean i cant stop them ?

if reading play attractive, quick passing and breaking football
people may see this,and "work it out" but im not sure they can really do alot about it

[Silver Fox]

We won't suffer second season syndrome as Bobby is due a good year next year

and it's made up by lazy journalists

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

There's not much to it, when you get the magnifying glass out.

Wigan changed their team around this year, selling a good chunk of their best midfielders and not replacing them properly.

West Ham? Well West Ham had a few changing room issues - we all saw at the end of the season that they're still good enough for the premiership when they want it.

As we are a club known for good changing room ethics and, Sidwell aside, are not really a 'selling club' - I suspect we'll do better than both these teams.

[Hoop Blah]

I think the syndrome is just as much about players as it is clubs, if not more so to be honest.

It seems more diffuclt to reproduce good form once opposition have sussed you out a bit and you're no longer an unknown quantity. The momentum built up from winning week in week out in the Championship will also have died down a bit, and every week will not seem like a new adventure to players and fans alike and for our players it's going to tough to keep their very high standards.

i hate all this rubbish about players and teams being "worked out"
what a load of rubbish

i have "worked out" how ronaldo plays and what he does, when he tries the step over, but this in no way guarantees i would be able to stop him doing it
i have worked out the way that chelsea play, direct, quickly to the front 1,2 or three, strong physical and athletic players etc

does this mean i cant stop them ?

if reading play attractive, quick passing and breaking football
people may see this,and "work it out" but im not sure they can really do alot about it

'Working it out' and being prepared for it does not mean being able to stop it. It does mean you have taken away the element of surprise though.

It's much easier to play against a player you've played against many a time than one you're facing for the first time but if they're better than you, then they're better than you. Thats why Utd, Chelsea, Ronaldo and Drogbra are successful, they're better than those they're playing against. For a lot of the Premiership, small advantages can make a big difference though. Our 'surprise package' status certainly helped us at the begining of last season and gave us the belief and momentum to do as well as we did.

I think the difficulty of reproducing form is probably more down to the individuals motivation and approach though. We're lucky in the sense that our squad don't seem inclined to believe their hype and I'm confident that Coppell will maintain that attitude next season which will go some way to protecting us from the second season syndrome.

[starbug]

I think you'll find second season syndrome only applies to small clubs the pudits want relegated in revenge for being proved so embarrasingly wrong this year

Sunderland, with a famous manager and big club syndrome all over it - I'd be surprised to see pundits saying they'll struggle next season, despite their team being vastly inferior to our Championship side.

[brendywendy]

I think you'll find second season syndrome only applies to small clubs the pudits want relegated in revenge for being proved so embarrasingly wrong this year

Sunderland, with a famous manager and big club syndrome all over it - I'd be surprised to see pundits saying they'll struggle next season, despite their team being vastly inferior to our Championship side.

sunderland will be favourite to stay up out of the 3 coming up.
Reading wigan fulham plus theother 2 promoted will be favourite to go down again

but thats the way we like it isnt it?

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

Our 'surprise package' status certainly helped us at the begining of last season and gave us the belief and momentum to do as well as we did.

.

What would be your prediction to Reading's season next season if we arent given as generous a start to the season by the Fixture List this time around?

[Uke]

Blackburn were worse in their second season in the Prem

No they weren't.