Fielding "weakened" teams in the FA Cup

[SpaceCruiser]

I see we're the target of another rant from that horrible rag, The Mirror. This time it's not Oliver Holt, but some f**kwit called Ian Winwood.

Why the likes of Arsenal should learn from last season and take the FA Cup seriously By Ian Winwood 2/01/2009

The FA Cup, 3rd Round

For me, two of the best things about last season was the fact that Arsenal won nothing and Reading were relegated.

Let me explain. This isn’t simply about spite, but is down to the fact that both clubs fielded weakened teams in the FA Cup so that they could attend to matters they felt were more important.

In Arsenal’s case this would have been winning either the league title or the Champions League. The fact that they managed neither means that they failed. Reading’s concern was remaining in the Premier League. And they too failed.

Back in the days when FA Cup Final TV coverage began about half past six in the morning, it is said that teams would rather win ‘The Cup’ than the league. I’m not suggesting that it’s sad that this is no longer the case. But, please, do not let us forget that this competition is one of the great ideas of any sport in any part of the world.

Last season my own team, Barnsley, knocked out the two previous holders of the FA Cup. An amateur team scored two goals at Anfield. Frantic discussions were made about European entry in case a Welsh team won this English trophy. And because of their triumph at Wembley Stadium, a few months later Portsmouth found themselves playing AC Milan.

If the ‘big clubs’ find the FA Cup an inconvenience, tough luck. If a club like Reading thinks that getting knocked out of the competition is the way to stay up then I’m glad that in their case they were proved wrong.

For most of us, the league campaign can be like going to work. But the FA Cup is a bit like going on holiday, one you’ve booked at the last minute.

It’s a sadly overlooked fact that most of us do not support a glamourous football team, and for us the FA Cup remains an important idea. And it is an idea that belongs as much to the supporters of, say, Peterborough United as it does Peter Kenyon at Chelsea.

So, please, take care of this great competition. I might groan every time I hear the phrase “magic of the cup”, but I’ve certainly never heard those words spoken about the Champions League.

The FA Cup is English and Welsh football’s greatest idea, a load of balls that hold the promise that every donkey can have its day. In recent years fans of Chesterfield, Wycombe Wanderers, Southampton, Cardiff City and West Bromwich Albion can attest to that.

What a twat. Apart from Arsenal (they regularly field their youth players), I disagree with his opinion on Reading. What the f**k does he know? Let's see, what were our teams in the FA Cup last season?

v Tottenham Spurs 5/1/08
Federici ,Rosenior ,Bikey ,De la Cruz ,Duberry (Pearce ,89 ) ,Stephen Hunt ,Cisse ,Fae ,Convey ,Long ,Lita

V Tottenham Spurs 15/1/08
Federici ,De la Cruz ,Ingimarsson ,Pearce (Cox ,46 ) ,Shorey (Stephen Hunt ,66 ) ,Rosenior ,Cisse ,Harper ,Convey ,Lita ,Long

So, basically, we fielded mostly FIRST TEAM SQUAD players, rather than youth players like Arsenal did. Why isn't this moron instead moaning at Manchester United and Liverpool who regularly rotate their teams for the cups? I think this guy is jealous that his precious Barnsley team wasn't in the premiership for more than one season.

[Dirk Gently]

So one of our senior players saying "I don't give a sh*t about the FA Cup" has nothing to do with this?

Like it or not, they way we have treated the FA Cup over the past 3 seasons has done as much as any other club to devalue it as a competition.

[cmonurz]

Your opinion is one thing Spacey, but your rant about 'first team squad players' is misplaced. Did we field weakened sides in the cup last season? Yes, we did. Fact.

Whilst of course I wouldn't go as far as this article to say it is good that we got relegated as we did not take the cup seriously, I agree with anyone who dislikes the trend of fielding weakened sides in the cup.

Winning the competition is one thing, but there can't be a fan in the country who doesn't want to go to a cup QF, or even SF and watch their club in action. Cup ties are special, but I haven't been to one now for five seasons. Reading FC don't take these games seriously, so why should I?

[Alan Partridge]

Article is 100% correct.

[SpaceCruiser]

So one of our senior players saying "I don't give a sh*t about the FA Cup" has nothing to do with this?

Surely this was taken out of context? He knew he wasn't going to be involved, so when he was asked a question about the game, he said "I don't give a shit". Is that not the case?

[Dirk Gently]

So one of our senior players saying "I don't give a sh*t about the FA Cup" has nothing to do with this?

Surely this was taken out of context? He knew he wasn't going to be involved, so when he was asked a question about the game, he said "I don't give a shit". Is that not the case?

The quote I can find is

We're not going to win the FA Cup and I don't care about it, to be honest. I care about staying in the Premier League, as does everybody at this club.

Our Premier League status isn't protected by winning the FA Cup and it's a simple as that. It's a fantastic competition and perhaps one day we'll be in a position where we can compete for it, but not now.

That makes it pretty clear his and the club's attitude to the FA Cup.

Just as paranoids sometimes do have enemies, the Daily Mirror's attacks on Reading FC sometimes are justified.

[Vision]

Your opinion is one thing Spacey, but your rant about 'first team squad players' is misplaced. Did we field weakened sides in the cup last season? Yes, we did. Fact.

Whilst of course I wouldn't go as far as this article to say it is good that we got relegated as we did not take the cup seriously, I agree with anyone who dislikes the trend of fielding weakened sides in the cup.

Winning the competition is one thing, but there can't be a fan in the country who doesn't want to go to a cup QF, or even SF and watch their club in action. Cup ties are special, but I haven't been to one now for five seasons. Reading FC don't take these games seriously, so why should I?

I've said this before but i just don't agree. Given the relative performances of the cup team in the games over the last couple of years you could argue that the so-called weaker side performed better than their 1st choice counterparts would have done.

Its an opportunity to give much needed playing time to fringe players and more importantly for me to the young players in our ranks. Its a personal thing of course but i've actually looked forward to and enjoyed the cup games every bit as much (if not more so) than an awful lot of league games.

If it was just us and Arsenal then the writer might have a point but at a very conservative guess i reckon no more than half the Premiership/Championship teams field their full strength side in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Unfortunately Kitson's (mis)quote is always going to be associated with us as far as the rest of the football world is concerned.

[Fat Leather Jacket]

Its ok, were on course to stay up in the Championship this season so we can treat the F.A. Cup like shit again.

[cmonurz]

I just don't think it should be seen as an opportunity to blood young players/give reserves a go. Why should a cup game be an experiment? That's what training and reserve matches are for. Selecting a weakened side is a gamble. I personally think fans deserve better than that.

The relative performance of 'the second string' is neither here nor there really. Choosing from our squad of players, our cup line-ups have not been 'our best side', or even close to it, irrespective of their subsequent performance.

[reading fc rock leroylero]

The point the journalist miss's, is the fact that pretty much every club in the top two tiers of english football, field a weakened side. We are no more guilty than any others. The only difference is that our club has had publicity over the matter, with players and managers publicly displaying a disregard for the cup.

[Hoop Blah]

Your opinion is one thing Spacey, but your rant about 'first team squad players' is misplaced. Did we field weakened sides in the cup last season? Yes, we did. Fact.

Whilst of course I wouldn't go as far as this article to say it is good that we got relegated as we did not take the cup seriously, I agree with anyone who dislikes the trend of fielding weakened sides in the cup.

Winning the competition is one thing, but there can't be a fan in the country who doesn't want to go to a cup QF, or even SF and watch their club in action. Cup ties are special, but I haven't been to one now for five seasons. Reading FC don't take these games seriously, so why should I?

I've said this before but i just don't agree. Given the relative performances of the cup team in the games over the last couple of years you could argue that the so-called weaker side performed better than their 1st choice counterparts would have done.

Its an opportunity to give much needed playing time to fringe players and more importantly for me to the young players in our ranks. Its a personal thing of course but i've actually looked forward to and enjoyed the cup games every bit as much (if not more so) than an awful lot of league games.

If it was just us and Arsenal then the writer might have a point but at a very conservative guess i reckon no more than half the Premiership/Championship teams field their full strength side in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Unfortunately Kitson's (mis)quote is always going to be associated with us as far as the rest of the football world is concerned.

The whole fielding weakened teams in the cup thing does get my goat, however, I think it is a useful way of blooding a few youngsters or keeping the fringe players interested and, to a degree, match sharp.

I generally disagree about the cup team out performing the league team though. It might have been the case to an extent last season because our first choice side was performing so badly, but the only reasons a second string team should perform better than the first choice team is if the first eleven just aren't motivated enough (which wouldn't be the case if the club took a more positive stance on cup performance and importance) or if the manager was picking the wrong players in the first elevn in the first place!

Form and injury obviously play some part, but it all really comes down the how the club approach the games. Set them up as less important to the league and you'll probably see a dip in performance (much like those games that denied us our place in Europe at the back end or 06/07 and the way the clubs approach to the Premiership changed as a result) but take it seriously and we'd at least give it a better go.

[SpaceCruiser]

But our reserves don't have many games. Looking at the teams I posted, I'd say that most of those players had played a part prior to those games. If a player played an outstanding performance and went on to stake a regular starting postition thereafter, would you say we had played a weak team with this player?

[cmonurz]

But our reserves don't have many games. Looking at the teams I posted, I'd say that most of those players had played a part prior to those games. If a player played an outstanding performance and went on to stake a regular starting postition thereafter, would you say we had played a weak team with this player?

Yes, because at the time, that player was not in the first-team.

[Hoop Blah]

But our reserves don't have many games. Looking at the teams I posted, I'd say that most of those players had played a part prior to those games. If a player played an outstanding performance and went on to stake a regular starting postition thereafter, would you say we had played a weak team with this player?

If the manager isn't picking what he considers to be his strongest team then yes.

If the reserves don't have enough fixtures the club are perfectly capable of arrange a few friendlies to fill in the gaps if necessary.

I think throwing the odd player in is acceptable. Wholesale changes just don't sit well with me though as I think we should take every game seriously and want to win them all and give ourselves the best chance of winning them all.

The counter arguement to that is that by making the greater number of changes we might stand a better chance of winning other games (by virtue of a happier, sharper squad etc) just highlights that we either have the wrong characters in the squad or we don't keep them sharp enough outside of first team action.

[Ian Royal]

Your opinion is one thing Spacey, but your rant about 'first team squad players' is misplaced. Did we field weakened sides in the cup last season? Yes, we did. Fact.

Whilst of course I wouldn't go as far as this article to say it is good that we got relegated as we did not take the cup seriously, I agree with anyone who dislikes the trend of fielding weakened sides in the cup.

Winning the competition is one thing, but there can't be a fan in the country who doesn't want to go to a cup QF, or even SF and watch their club in action. Cup ties are special, but I haven't been to one now for five seasons. Reading FC don't take these games seriously, so why should I?

I've said this before but i just don't agree. Given the relative performances of the cup team in the games over the last couple of years you could argue that the so-called weaker side performed better than their 1st choice counterparts would have done.

Its an opportunity to give much needed playing time to fringe players and more importantly for me to the young players in our ranks. Its a personal thing of course but i've actually looked forward to and enjoyed the cup games every bit as much (if not more so) than an awful lot of league games.

If it was just us and Arsenal then the writer might have a point but at a very conservative guess i reckon no more than half the Premiership/Championship teams field their full strength side in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Unfortunately Kitson's (mis)quote is always going to be associated with us as far as the rest of the football world is concerned.

Agreed.

A different side is not necessarily a much weaker side. People who don't know our squad well won't realise that.

The vast majority of players we will put out against Cardiff will all have first team experience, they just won't happen to be the players that we see regularly or others have heard of.

[Scrappy]

Let's be honest. He is right, we dont care about the cup for the simple reason it's not financially good enough for us to bother with. Promotion will get us far more cash and that has to be the priority. The press can write what they say about us, my feeling still remains the same. Yes I would love to see us in the cup final one day but league has to take priority. You can have a day in May or you can have Premiership football for at least a year.

[SpaceCruiser]

A different side is not necessarily a much weaker side. People who don't know our squad well won't realise that.

The vast majority of players we will put out against Cardiff will all have first team experience, they just won't happen to be the players that we see regularly or others have heard of.

Spot on.

[Dirk Gently]

A different side is not necessarily a much weaker side. People who don't know our squad well won't realise that.

The vast majority of players we will put out against Cardiff will all have first team experience, they just won't happen to be the players that we see regularly or others have heard of.

Spot on.

But it's certainly not the team we would put out if it was essential to us that we won the match. The fact that we are prepared to experiment with a "Cup team" proves that the result of the match is less important to us than a league match would be.

QED.

[Vision]

I just don't think it should be seen as an opportunity to bloody young players/give reserves a go. Why should a cup game be an experiment? That's what training and reserve matches are for. Selecting a weakened side is a gamble. I personally think fans deserve better than that.

The relative performance of 'the second string' is neither here nor there really. Choosing from our squad of players, our cup line-ups have not been 'our best side', or even close to it, irrespective of their subsequent performance.

Again i disagree. If the team perform well then that justifies the selection whether that be the supposed 1st team in the league or 11 different players in the cup. Once again only my opinion but i'm not convionced that a 1st choice 11 would have performed any better in those games than the cup sides did.

If the players are genuinely members of the 1st team squad then they need to play games. Even from a moral point of view (and given that the hack seems to be taking a moral stance here) then fielding a (supposedly) weaker team in the cup doesn't have the same impact on the fairness of the overall competition than managers that rotate in league matches.

The above is just my personal preference of course but i really don't understand where the original articles vitriol comes from. Actually i do but i just don't agree with him. Did his beloved Barnsley pick a full strength side from the very beginning of the competition? Did Cardiff or Pompey?

As i say if it was only us and Arsenal then i might concede the bloke has a point but it isn't.

[Platypuss]

A different side is not necessarily a much weaker side. People who don't know our squad well won't realise that.

The vast majority of players we will put out against Cardiff will all have first team experience, they just won't happen to be the players that we see regularly or others have heard of.

Spot on.

Surely the point is that a club which truly takes the cup seriously plays its strongest side.