Sir Steve V's Big McD

[friday fan]

Given we looked down and out in january, IF we get to the play offs then how would you rate that achievement compared to Sir Steve's record. Obviously the 106 point accumulation set a record but you cannot help thinking that if big McD was the gaffer from the start of the season we may have given that a run - opinions?

[Franchise FC]

SSC - the 106
We lost two games in 46
We looked likely to score 4's & 5's regularly

BMcD - since permanent appintment
We've only played 11
We've lost one of those
We've worked hard and kept going and won a few of those very late in the game
We've looked like scoring loads twice
BUT - we haven't lost at home - that's an improvement on the 106..........so far

I think BMcD has all the hallmarks of providing some sort of challenge to SSC's record - but not yet.

[Wimb]

SSC's 106 points is by far the greater achievment no matter how this season pans out.

At this risk of (once again) being bashed for saying... I firmly believe that ANY manager would have struggled during the first weeks of the season due to the upheaval and coth cutting that was going on at the football club, combined with a run of tough fixtures (we played 3 of the top 6 inside the first 4 games for example)

It seems clear that Brian would have picked up more points then Rodgers but the fact is you can't judge a manager on 'what might have been'

However, that's not to take away what Brian has ALREADY seemingly achieved which is not just survival (touch wood) but has got the fans enthusiastic and enjoying coming to matches again.

But that can't compare to the utter demolition job that SSC did on the league four years ago. In fact in over 100 years of the football league NOBODY has matched the level of performance that season

[Sun Tzu]

Coppell's achievement is way ahead. Not just of what McD has done but what ANY manager has done in this division.

I'd agree that we may have been higher had McD been in charge from the start of the season, but how much of what he has achieved has been because of the poor first half we'll never know (he's undoubtably got the players working to put right what they got wrong, a very good motivational tool !)

Don;t think any manager would have struggled. Our summer was pretty run of the mill really and plenty of clubs see a turnover of players between seasons. Rodgers was in charge for the whole summer and had plenty of time to make plans. Only Harper and Rosenior were 'surprise' departures and most of the others were known about since Christmas.

I don;t think McD will ever match the 106 season. I do think he'll continue to do well !

[Wimb]

Coppell's achievement is way ahead. Not just of what McD has done but what ANY manager has done in this division.

I'd agree that we may have been higher had McD been in charge from the start of the season, but how much of what he has achieved has been because of the poor first half we'll never know (he's undoubtably got the players working to put right what they got wrong, a very good motivational tool !)

Don;t think any manager would have struggled. Our summer was pretty run of the mill really and plenty of clubs see a turnover of players between seasons. Rodgers was in charge for the whole summer and had plenty of time to make plans. Only Harper and Rosenior were 'surprise' departures and most of the others were known about since Christmas.

I don;t think McD will ever match the 106 season. I do think he'll continue to do well !

Generally agree Sun, but it doesn't matter how long you 'know' or 'plan' for departures, the simple fact is the club wasn't prepared to invest until players were sold, and Hunt and Bikey were pretty late in the summer. In the meantime any number of targets could have gone or decided to remain with their club (Tommy Smith anyone )

Under that scenario Brian or anyone else would have been handcuffed by the board until the money hit the bank. You can't go out and sign someone on the expectation Hunt'll go for £3 million because what happens if you buy someone then Hunt crocks his knee and is out for the year, while we're still paying him £30k a week

That being said we agree that Brian or anotherr manager could have coaxed more out of whatever squad we had with the right tactics, motivation and a little bit of luck.

[Hampshire Royal]

The 106 season is, and will remain for a long time, the greatest ever achievement of this club. The only area where McD was better than SC was in having a real go at the FA Cup. I know it's a distraction from the league, and you risk injuries to key players, but nothing can beat the immediate drama of a good, well-fought cup-tie. And there's no doubt that matching and beating teams that are 'better' than you bilds the confidence and helps to build strong team spirit.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

But we have no idea who BM might have liked to sign, having seen players like Siggy for a long time he might have had full faith from day one. Instead of BR's view that we needed more more more, and had to spend. 4 signings had already played at other clubs by the time BR managed to sign them, so at the start of the season we were in a total mess. We had Harper and Rosenior waiting to be shipped out, yet playing in the team.

Disaster.

As for the 106, doubt it will be beaten for a while, if BM can get us up next season I shall be happy, if he does it this season it would be a miracle.

[Mr Angry]

Far too early to make a judgement yet; lets see how things go after McD has been here for a full season and after his team (rather than one he inherited from a previous mnager before he could work with them) has gone 7 or 8 games without a win.

That having been said, the 106 achievement and our first promotion to the top flight will always mark Coppell out as the best ever manager of RFC - until someone else leads us to an FA Cup win or European football that is!

[Wimb]

But we have no idea who BM might have liked to sign, having seen players like Siggy for a long time he might have had full faith from day one. Instead of BR's view that we needed more more more, and had to spend. 4 signings had already played at other clubs by the time BR managed to sign them, so at the start of the season we were in a total mess. We had Harper and Rosenior waiting to be shipped out, yet playing in the team.

Disaster.

As for the 106, doubt it will be beaten for a while, if BM can get us up next season I shall be happy, if he does it this season it would be a miracle.

So who would you have played at right back then? Gunnar week in week out? Siggy played from about the 5th league game or something along those lines. Plus Siggy hasn't been flawless since day 1 and he's clearly come on as the season has progressed, I think it would have been unfair to expect the lad to play this well from Forest at home onwards. He may well have done it, but if Brian had been in charge and said 'I'm backing Sig 100% week in week out' and he'd not performed from the get go the fans would all have been screaming out to sign some experience etc.

And as I stated above, how were we supposed to sign anyone without shipping players out first? I 100% agree we were in a mess at the start of the season and Rodgers had a big part to play, but to ignore the coth clutting and restrictions placed from above is misguided IMO. You would had to believe that if he had the funds Brendan would have had Cummings (eugh ) McAnuff, Rasiak, Howard in during the summer.

But then it's all a guessing game sadly, we'll never know what might have been in the past but we can all dream about what ifs for the future now

[brendywendy]

the only way he could possibly match the 106, would be to take us from 2nd bottom to 6th in half a season with a bunch of kids and journeymen after having all our big players sold. but thatll never happen will it.............

[loyalroyal4life]

no one will match SSC promotion winning season... well not whilst I am alive!

[Mad Dog's Ghost]

What Sun said.

Few fans of any club get to see a season like our 106. Ever.

That's not to diminish Brian McD's impact. The turnaround has been a joy.

[Terminal Boardom]

SSC took over an established squad which had started the season really well. We all know the situation we were in when BMcD took over. But 4 months is hardly the best sort of comparison is it

Let's see where we are halfway through next season before drawing any comparisons.

That said, the 106 was quite simply a stunning achievement - but that was 4 years ago. We need to move on.

[Sun Tzu]

Coppell's achievement is way ahead. Not just of what McD has done but what ANY manager has done in this division.

I'd agree that we may have been higher had McD been in charge from the start of the season, but how much of what he has achieved has been because of the poor first half we'll never know (he's undoubtably got the players working to put right what they got wrong, a very good motivational tool !)

Don;t think any manager would have struggled. Our summer was pretty run of the mill really and plenty of clubs see a turnover of players between seasons. Rodgers was in charge for the whole summer and had plenty of time to make plans. Only Harper and Rosenior were 'surprise' departures and most of the others were known about since Christmas.

I don;t think McD will ever match the 106 season. I do think he'll continue to do well !

Generally agree Sun, but it doesn't matter how long you 'know' or 'plan' for departures, the simple fact is the club wasn't prepared to invest until players were sold, and Hunt and Bikey were pretty late in the summer. In the meantime any number of targets could have gone or decided to remain with their club (Tommy Smith anyone )

Under that scenario Brian or anyone else would have been handcuffed by the board until the money hit the bank. You can't go out and sign someone on the expectation Hunt'll go for £3 million because what happens if you buy someone then Hunt crocks his knee and is out for the year, while we're still paying him £30k a week

That being said we agree that Brian or anotherr manager could have coaxed more out of whatever squad we had with the right tactics, motivation and a little bit of luck.

The reason we didn't sign Smith was not lack of funds or restrictions from above though. And Rodgers opted to hang on and wait for him rather than look elsewhere, which he could have done. I'd suggest a large part of the 'problem' was Rodgers had a strategy and wouldn;t budge from it, which led to him being unprepared.

And of course McD has been through a transfer window in which he spent nothing on fees but brought in players in key areas quickly and at low cost. Maybe he'd have managed the same in the summer if required ?

Speculation for sure, and of course not really relevant to the original question. Lots of managers make promising starts, McD has probably made one of the most promising ever. Should he get us promoted this season he'll be worthy of being linked to Coppell's achievements, otherwise I would say his 'real' job starts next season and we'll see how he manages with the long term planning side of things rather than the firefighting.

[Snowball]

League

23 points from 26 games 27-44 = -17 GD 038 Points Season Equivalent with Rodgers and temp manager
28 points from 11 games 23-08 = +15 GD 117 Points Season Equivalent with Mac as permanent manager

FA Cup

Plus we get to the FA Cup Quarter Final by beating Liverpool, Burnley, WBA, and are winning 2-0 against Villa

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING and if we make 6-7-8th this season Mac should be manager of the year





First, should we judge Mac for all games, or include FA Cup or only games since becoming full-time manager

Mac's achievements (all games) (so far) are stunning, especially when we consider how bad we were.

His points record since becoming full manager is BETTER than Sir Steve's.

W9 D1 L1 23-8 2.55 points per game = 117 Point Season

Of course he hasn't done it for 46 games (yet)

What is interesting is his league START, which was horrible. I barely noticed
how bad it was because of the cup successes

01 1 1 D A Bristol
02 1 1 D H Swansea
03 1 4 L A Plymouth
06 1 2 L A Forest
08 0 3 L A Sheff Utd

P5 W0 D2 L3 4-11 Form equivalent to a side finishing adrift at the bottom of the league

IMO this shows that he's even better, because the guys were on zero confidence, he came in,
could hardly do much better, then got absolutely TANKED at Plymouth.

THEN, he started to work his magic with the 1-1 and 2-1 v Liverpool (maybe he got lucky, but I think it was his management) I had predicted 1-5 in the home game!

Yes we lost at Forest but they have AWESOME home form, we dominated the second half, missed a pen and should have got a result

H WIN 4-1 Doncaster
H WIN 5-1 Leicester City
H WIN 3-0 Preston
H WIN 2-0 Coventry City
H WIN 2-1 Reading
H WIN 5-0 QPR
H WIN 2-1 Sheffield Wed
H WIN 1-0 Sheffield Utd
H WIN 1-0 Middlesbrough
H WIN 1-0 Swansea City
H WIN 1-0 Peterborough
H WIN 2-0 Crystal Palace

The Sheffield United game we more than matched them and had a lot more chances on target.

Meanwhile we are doing well in the cup

THEN HE WAS MADE PERMANENT MANAGER.

His league form since that time 9-1-1 = 117 point season.
His total form including FA Cup v WBA and Villa is 10-2-2 = "2.86 ppgame" = 105 point season equivalent


This is a truly amazing record, much more remarkable when you consider the difference between Rodgers and temp-manager versus Mac as permanent manager

1 Newcastle 25 9 4 0 23 6 6 3 3 18 10 +25 52
2 Nottm Forest 27 10 1 3 31 12 4 9 0 13 8 +24 52
3 WBA 26 7 2 4 26 14 6 6 1 26 14 +24 47
4 Cardiff City 26 5 3 4 20 10 7 3 4 30 19 +21 42
5 Swansea City 27 6 6 2 11 8 4 6 3 12 12 +3 42
6 Sheffield Utd 26 7 5 2 23 14 4 3 5 16 19 +6 41
7 Blackpool 26 7 4 2 25 12 3 5 5 17 20 +10 39
8 Leicester City 25 7 3 3 18 12 3 5 4 11 15 +2 38
9 Crystal Palace 25 5 4 3 15 14 4 6 3 14 13 +2 37
10 Middlesbrough 27 4 3 6 12 15 6 3 5 27 17 +7 36
11 Bristol City 26 6 6 2 21 19 2 5 5 12 18 -4 35
12 QPR 26 4 6 2 24 18 4 4 6 16 25 -3 34
13 Doncaster 25 6 5 2 19 14 2 4 6 13 18 0 33
14 Barnsley 25 5 4 5 18 21 4 2 5 14 18 -7 33
15 Preston 25 4 5 2 15 10 4 3 7 14 23 -4 32
16 Watford 26 5 4 3 21 16 3 4 7 15 26 -6 32
17 Coventry City 27 5 5 3 18 17 3 3 8 13 22 -8 32
18 Ipswich Town 26 4 8 2 16 15 1 6 5 15 22 -6 29
19 Derby County 27 6 1 6 19 22 2 4 8 9 18 -12 29
20 Sheffield Wed 26 4 3 6 19 22 3 4 6 12 20 -11 28
21 Scunthorpe 25 5 3 4 17 17 2 3 8 13 29 -16 27
22 Plymouth 25 4 2 7 13 16 3 1 8 9 19 -13 24
23 Reading 26 1 6 5 9 16 4 2 8 18 28 -17 23
24 Peterborough 27 3 5 6 23 26 0 4 9 9 23 -17 18

1 Newcastle 38 15 4 0 46 9 8 7 4 26 19 +44 80
2 WBA 39 14 2 4 42 20 9 7 3 35 22 +35 78
3 Nottm Forest 39 16 1 3 39 13 4 9 6 16 19 +23 70
4 Leicester City 38 10 6 4 30 17 6 7 5 17 20 +10 61
5 Swansea City 39 8 8 3 15 11 7 8 5 18 20 +2 61
6 Cardiff City 38 9 5 5 30 16 8 3 8 33 31 +16 59
7 Blackpool 39 11 5 4 40 20 3 7 9 20 30 +10 54
8 Sheffield Utd 39 10 7 2 34 19 4 5 11 20 32 +3 54
9 Middlesbrough 39 8 6 6 22 19 6 5 8 30 24 +9 53
10 Doncaster 39 8 7 5 25 21 5 6 8 25 26 +3 52
11 Reading 37 7 6 5 24 18 7 3 9 26 34 -2 51
12 Coventry City 39 8 7 4 25 22 5 5 10 19 30 -8 51
13 Bristol City 39 8 9 3 34 32 3 7 9 15 27 -10 49
14 Barnsley 38 8 5 6 23 25 6 2 11 26 36 -12 49
15 Preston 39 8 8 3 29 20 4 4 12 20 39 -10 48
16 Ipswich Town 39 7 10 3 21 18 3 7 9 21 32 -8 47
17 QPR 38 7 8 4 34 25 4 5 10 17 31 -5 46
18 Derby County 39 10 2 7 32 28 2 7 11 14 29 -11 45
19 Scunthorpe 38 9 5 5 31 24 3 3 13 16 42 -19 44
20 Sheffield Wed 39 8 4 8 27 27 3 6 10 15 32 -17 43
21 Watford 37 8 4 6 29 21 3 5 11 19 36 -9 42
22 Crystal Palace 38 7 4 8 19 21 5 9 5 19 21 -4 39
23 Plymouth 38 5 5 8 19 22 5 2 13 21 33 -15 37
24 Peterborough 39 6 5 8 29 30 1 4 15 10 34 -25 30




23 points from 26 games 27-44 = -17 GD
28 points from 11 games 23-08 = +15 GD

[wolsey]

SSC took over an established squad which had started the season really well. We all know the situation we were in when BMcD took over. But 4 months is hardly the best sort of comparison is it

Let's see where we are halfway through next season before drawing any comparisons.

That said, the 106 was quite simply a stunning achievement - but that was 4 years ago. We need to move on.

Well I don't

I will always treasure that season; the individuals, the team, the sense of excitement that I got before, during and after nearly every game.

Whereas if what you meant was that the achievements that year were, for the want of a better word, freakish, and not a realistic yardstick for any future performance, then I would totally agree.

[Ian Royal]

Try a comparison in 3 years when McDermott has a decent performance history.

[Royal With Cheese]

THEN, he started to work his magic with the 1-1 and 2-1 v Liverpool (maybe he got lucky, but I think it was his management) I had predicted 1-5 in the home game!

Yes we lost at Forest but they have AWESOME home form, we dominated the second half, missed a pen and should have got a result

H WIN 4-1 Doncaster
H WIN 5-1 Leicester City
H WIN 3-0 Preston
H WIN 2-0 Coventry City
H WIN 2-1 Reading
H WIN 5-0 QPR
H WIN 2-1 Sheffield Wed
H WIN 1-0 Sheffield Utd
H WIN 1-0 Middlesbrough
H WIN 1-0 Swansea City
H WIN 1-0 Peterborough
H WIN 2-0 Crystal Palace

I'd appreciate clarification of the above as I've no idea what it means. Apologies if I'm being dim but I don't recall us beating ourselves 2-1.

[Snowball]

THEN, he started to work his magic with the 1-1 and 2-1 v Liverpool (maybe he got lucky, but I think it was his management) I had predicted 1-5 in the home game!

Yes we lost at Forest but they have AWESOME home form, we dominated the second half, missed a pen and should have got a result

H WIN 4-1 Doncaster
H WIN 5-1 Leicester City
H WIN 3-0 Preston
H WIN 2-0 Coventry City
H WIN 2-1 Reading
H WIN 5-0 QPR
H WIN 2-1 Sheffield Wed
H WIN 1-0 Sheffield Utd
H WIN 1-0 Middlesbrough
H WIN 1-0 Swansea City
H WIN 1-0 Peterborough
H WIN 2-0 Crystal Palace

I'd appreciate clarification of the above as I've no idea what it means. Apologies if I'm being dim but I don't recall us beating ourselves 2-1.

That is Nottingham Forest's run of 13 straight home wins, with our narrow defeat in there.

[phil in cornwall]

I think Steve Coppell is the best manager Reading has ever had and I go back quite a long way. BMcD has still got a long way to go to catch up with him.

However, I always disapproved of one thing Coppell did and that was to play a team of reserves in cup games. Of course, because of his policy we never had any good cup runs.

BMcD has done the opposite this season and it has given us our best cup run for years. It regenerated a dying season and at last gave the supporters something to cheer about. I think it was the FA Cup run that gave the impetus to our rapid rise up the table as well as bringing in a lot of extra income.

I have been wondering whether, when Coppell was in charge, he ever discussed this with BMcD. If so, did they argue about it or did BMcD bite his tongue?