Prem League2

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

looks like it is all kicking off again, http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8671551.stm

I would suggest that in public many Chairmen will say it is not a starter, yet I reckon there is milage in it, and is going to happen sooner or later.

Should JM go along with it, moving RFC into a 2nd teir, with more income over the future?

I say yes, much as I think it should all stay the same, but thew Prem exists and we cannot pretend other wise.

[W&E Royal]

I don't like the idea of the parachute payments increasing to £48million over 4 years but i think a Premier League 2 would be good for a club like ours.

[Dirk Gently]

I don't like the idea of the parachute payments increasing to £48million over 4 years but i think a Premier League 2 would be good for a club like ours.

And 11 years ago?

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Personally, i think the FL needs a good kick up the Arse and a complete re vamp.

The current system is failing its members. Clubs going into Administration left right and centre. The current structure is based on what was good for the game 50 years ago, not that much has changed to it s structure since.
A PL 2 and a revamp of League 1 League 2 and Conf Prem would be good for everyone.

[No Hoops]

Personally, i think the FL needs a good kick up the Arse and a complete re vamp.

The current system is failing its members. Clubs going into Administration left right and centre. The current structure is based on what was good for the game 50 years ago, not that much has changed to it s structure since.
A PL 2 and a revamp of League 1 League 2 and Conf Prem would be good for everyone.

+1

[W&E Royal]

I don't like the idea of the parachute payments increasing to £48million over 4 years but i think a Premier League 2 would be good for a club like ours.

And 11 years ago?

Sorry?

[Messiah]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=98604

[Stranded]

Personally, i think the FL needs a good kick up the Arse and a complete re vamp.

The current system is failing its members. Clubs going into Administration left right and centre. The current structure is based on what was good for the game 50 years ago, not that much has changed to it s structure since.
A PL 2 and a revamp of League 1 League 2 and Conf Prem would be good for everyone.

Whilst a revamp is not a bad idea (I think lower divisions should go back to N/S) I don't think a single club in the lower two divisions has gone in to admin this season - certainly none in League 2. The problems seem to be in the CCC where clubs either overspend trying to get up or struggle to meet the demands of relegation following overspend in the PL.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=98604

should have stuck it here matey, no one really reads GF, and this does involve RFC , and in many ways.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Would have to say that a PL2 is the way forward also with a complete re-org of Divsions 3 and 4 plus the conference.

I would suggest something along the lines of

18 club PL1 (3 down)
22 club PL2 (3 up, 3 down)

22 club FL1 (3 up, 4 down)
22 club FL2 (north) (2 up, 2 down)
22 club FL2 (south) (2 up, 2 down)

And NO parachute payments between PL2 and FL1

[Radders]

Can you not see that the Prem teams are just trying to 'close shop' as it were. It is now very difficult (although not impossible) to get promoted stay there and be able to compete in the prem, year after year. If they increase the parachute payments, there will be a few teams who over time will be able to yo-yo around between the prem and the championship. Whilst this would be good for us right now, what would you have thought if this happened 10 or 15 years ago? With all the extra money that would have meant in the championship by now, would we have been able to compete with these teams financially, particularly if we had just been promoted from league one? I very much doubt it.

Remember that all the money through media deals, sponsorship etc goes to the top division, not the one below it and certainly not the one below that! Would it really be good for football that if a team gets promoted from league one to the championship, they turn into Peterborough every year. Good for the teams at the top but crap for the teams further down.

I know that footbal has changed and that it is now big business, but what would be the point of promotion? I personally find the little teams going to the big teams and trying to hold out for a 0-0 really dull, but it would happen quite a few times a season. Do you really want to see that?

[rhroyal]

For me the suggestions close the door on the majority of clubs outside the top 2 divisions. Look how many clubs have invested in new stadiums and infrastructure in the past 20 years before consolidating in the top 2 divisions. Ourselves, Wigan, Hull, Swansea, Doncaster. Look at who are able to punch above their weight due to the relative ease to compete in the FL. Blackpool, Scunthorpe, Barnsley, the likes of Bradford and Wimbledon in the past. Introduce these new suggestions and it's door almost closed for any clubs hoping to emulate this. AFC Wimbledon could struggle to climb above the MK Dons, for example.

The answer is not pouring more money into the Championship, because it'll only lead to more money being pissed away on wages. It's all that's happened so far. We need a nationwide agreement (PL and FL) that stops football clubs from spending beyond their means. This doesn't mean no debt and loans for occasional investment. It means clubs being able to provide hard evidence that they can match their expenditure with revenue on a yearly basis, and harsh penalties such as relegations for clubs failing to comply. It'll stop the silly spending in the Premiership and work its way down. To be more comprehensive, you could limit external investment from sugar daddies so 10% or 20% of turnover or something.

Either way, giving the CCC more money won't work. In football's current climate, more money = more wages given to players. It won't lead to sustainability.

[rhroyal]

I should add that if this suggestion leads to clubs being unsustainable as professional clubs, they had better stop being professional clubs as they clearly don't have enough fans to merit it.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

I know that footbal has changed and that it is now big business, but what would be the point of promotion? I personally find the little teams going to the big teams and trying to hold out for a 0-0 really dull, but it would happen quite a few times a season. Do you really want to see that?

Thats what you get with the PL under the current set up isnt it?

At present the CCC is just a graveyard. Teams on the backpedle who, once theyve failed to bounce straight back, are just treading water at best each year trying to fend off old Debts. Id say League 1 is not far off the CCC at the moment in terms of the quality.

And why do we have 24 teams divisions still? Its too many at any level.

The play off system is dump as well, i cant believe they havent changed the structure, there are so many better and more exiting ways. 20 teams in each league, with a slightly extended play off system that favours the higher placed teams? Now we just get a marathon season with an end of season spin up.

Perfect time for a change. The current system is just archaic and unsuited to the way football is today.

[under the tin]

Personally, i think the FL needs a good kick up the Arse and a complete re vamp.

The current system is failing its members. Clubs going into Administration left right and centre. The current structure is based on what was good for the game 50 years ago, not that much has changed to it s structure since.
A PL 2 and a revamp of League 1 League 2 and Conf Prem would be good for everyone.

Erm, clubs don't go into adminisration because of "the system"
They get into financial difficulties because they employ footballers on silly wages, hired by chairmen who are pressurised into bringing them in by ' fans who have no appreciation whatsoever of what it means to have a payroll with people taking home thousands of pounds every week.
Sort the wages out, and the finances become manageable automatically.
If that means a "brain drain" of footballing talent plying their trade elsewhere, then so be it. I don't go to watch "stars". I go to watch my football team.

If by a "revamp" the implication is that the drawbridge be pulled up in order to make it even harder for what now are small clubs to grow, again I heartily disagree. We were a small club not so long ago.
If you take the romance of a climb to success away from a club like Wigan away form our national sport, then in my view, you might as well scrap pro football altogether, and just have exhibition games between The Microsoft Manchester Marvels, and Seat Barcelona, Volkswagen Munich, etc.

[SpaceCruiser]

I don't go to watch "stars". I go to watch my football team.

EXACTLY.

[Messiah]

http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=98604

should have stuck it here matey, no one really reads GF, and this does involve RFC , and in many ways.

Nobody really reads General Football? Right ok.

Would have to say that a PL2 is the way forward also with a complete re-org of Divsions 3 and 4 plus the conference.

I would suggest something along the lines of

18 club PL1 (3 down)
22 club PL2 (3 up, 3 down)

22 club FL1 (3 up, 4 down)
22 club FL2 (north) (2 up, 2 down)
22 club FL2 (south) (2 up, 2 down)

And NO parachute payments between PL2 and FL1

Like this.

[brendywendy]

For me the suggestions close the door on the majority of clubs outside the top 2 divisions. Look how many clubs have invested in new stadiums and infrastructure in the past 20 years before consolidating in the top 2 divisions. Ourselves, Wigan, Hull, Swansea, Doncaster. Look at who are able to punch above their weight due to the relative ease to compete in the FL. Blackpool, Scunthorpe, Barnsley, the likes of Bradford and Wimbledon in the past. Introduce these new suggestions and it's door almost closed for any clubs hoping to emulate this. AFC Wimbledon could struggle to climb above the MK Dons, for example.

The answer is not pouring more money into the Championship, because it'll only lead to more money being pissed away on wages. It's all that's happened so far. We need a nationwide agreement (PL and FL) that stops football clubs from spending beyond their means. This doesn't mean no debt and loans for occasional investment. It means clubs being able to provide hard evidence that they can match their expenditure with revenue on a yearly basis, and harsh penalties such as relegations for clubs failing to comply. It'll stop the silly spending in the Premiership and work its way down. To be more comprehensive, you could limit external investment from sugar daddies so 10% or 20% of turnover or something.

Either way, giving the CCC more money won't work. In football's current climate, more money = more wages given to players. It won't lead to sustainability.

thats whats needed, but also is a bit weird - as it would mean clubs with smaller stadia - ie chelsea wouldnt be able to spend money they had available from roman
clubs with 10-20k stadia never being able to finance the success that would get them a bigger stadium
and would mean man utd could spend more than anyopne else forever due to bigger outside revenues and biggest stadia
and wont this just lead to stadium inflation.
im confused.

[Ark Royal]

For me the suggestions close the door on the majority of clubs outside the top 2 divisions. Look how many clubs have invested in new stadiums and infrastructure in the past 20 years before consolidating in the top 2 divisions. Ourselves, Wigan, Hull, Swansea, Doncaster. Look at who are able to punch above their weight due to the relative ease to compete in the FL. Blackpool, Scunthorpe, Barnsley, the likes of Bradford and Wimbledon in the past. Introduce these new suggestions and it's door almost closed for any clubs hoping to emulate this. AFC Wimbledon could struggle to climb above the MK Dons, for example.

The answer is not pouring more money into the Championship, because it'll only lead to more money being pissed away on wages. It's all that's happened so far. We need a nationwide agreement (PL and FL) that stops football clubs from spending beyond their means. This doesn't mean no debt and loans for occasional investment. It means clubs being able to provide hard evidence that they can match their expenditure with revenue on a yearly basis, and harsh penalties such as relegations for clubs failing to comply. It'll stop the silly spending in the Premiership and work its way down. To be more comprehensive, you could limit external investment from sugar daddies so 10% or 20% of turnover or something.

Either way, giving the CCC more money won't work. In football's current climate, more money = more wages given to players. It won't lead to sustainability.

Absolutely +1 to this.

[rhroyal]

Like I said, long term loans and debts for investment is okay, such as expanding a stadium. It's the constant spending beyond means on playing staff that is the problem.