Casual fans can't watch the royals because of club policy

[bigshaka'away']

Honestly! The member card is about more than just customer data and making a couple of quid!

It helps to give PRIORITY to the more loyal customer who turns up at more games than the casual customer.

Then why was it 10 quid for out first season in the premiership when the clun knew that many many new fans would attempt to get one?????????? Answer that and i will be impressed.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Honestly! The member card is about more than just customer data and making a couple of quid!

It helps to give PRIORITY to the more loyal customer who turns up at more games than the casual customer.

Which is a benefit to the regular supporter, not the club (directly at least*) or the casual fan who we're acyually talking about


* The club may benefit in the long term by way of simplifying the allocation of tickets and keeping their long term fans happy, but as far as the club are concerned, as long as they sell them everything is fine. In fact, a constant long queue selling the tickets as first come first served is probably the most efficient way of selling from the clubs view

[bigshaka'away']

Honestly! The member card is about more than just customer data and making a couple of quid!

It helps to give PRIORITY to the more loyal customer who turns up at more games than the casual customer.

Then why was it 10 quid for out first season in the premiership when the clun knew that many many new fans would attempt to get one?????????? Answer that and i will be impressed.

Seemingly you cant...............

[SpaceCruiser]

Honestly! The member card is about more than just customer data and making a couple of quid!

It helps to give PRIORITY to the more loyal customer who turns up at more games than the casual customer.

Then why was it 10 quid for out first season in the premiership when the clun knew that many many new fans would attempt to get one?????????? Answer that and i will be impressed.

Seemingly you cant...............

Because it didn't affect me.

And I was a bit busy, can't reply to everything immediately.

Anyway, my guess is that we've already got quite a few members (and also those who bought half-season tickets the previous season in order to get a season ticket for that season) that they couldn't possibly have many available tickets. So to make sure that the person signing up just for that game is a commited fan who wants to turn up for a few games rather than somebody who is only interested in going to one of the big games (i.e. Man Utd, Liverpool etc), they're willing to charge £10 to deter those away fans looking to get into the home stands....

That's just a guess, mind.

[bigshaka'away']

apologies, it was rude of me to expect an immeditate response. And your reasons that you state are exactly what the club would argue, but in reality an account sat down when we got promoted with the idea to charge newcomers a tenner to be able to buy a ticket, and i seriously doubt that was so 'loyal' fans could get tickets. I appreciate its not so expensive now, but its still an added cost and effort that puts off a casual fan.

[Southbank Old Boy]

So to make sure that the person signing up just for that game is a commited fan who wants to turn up for a few games rather than somebody who is only interested in going to one of the big games (i.e. Man Utd, Liverpool etc), they're willing to charge £10 to deter those away fans looking to get into the home stands....

And back in the real world...............

Like everything else associated to the Premiership it was all about raking in as much money as possible.

The people most likely not to be put off by an additional tenner would be those southern based Utd supporters or the local Chelsea fans etc who are used to having to fork out even more extortionate sums to get to see their teams.

[Diamond]

apologies, it was rude of me to expect an immeditate response. And your reasons that you state are exactly what the club would argue, but in reality an account sat down when we got promoted with the idea to charge newcomers a tenner to be able to buy a ticket, and i seriously doubt that was so 'loyal' fans could get tickets. I appreciate its not so expensive now, but its still an added cost and effort that puts off a casual fan.

Well, if it puts you off coming, its got to be worth any fee??!!

Get a grip mate. The club sell tickets on the day to non-members - FACT

[bigshaka'away']

Well, if it puts you off coming, its got to be worth any fee??!!

Get a grip mate. The club sell tickets on the day to non-members - FACT

[/quote]

yes i know it does, i was talking before that - FACT! - and it doesnt put me off, i was talking about casual fans, so sorry about that - FACT! -

[West Stand Man]

no, firstly i had to pay in the first instance, im quite happy to pay again if i lost it, its my fault, but i dont see why i should have to have a bloody card to get a match ticket, its not so loyal fans get tickets first, bollocks, its about making money.

No, it is about knowing who you are selling tickets to.
it is about simplifying ground entry.
It is about collecting data.
it is about a huge amount of things other than making money (let's face it £2 a card is not a real money maker, it just about covers the costs!)

[RG1 Export]

Isn't this the same for pretty much all major clubs in the country? Prepared and expecting to be told wrong but I thought clubs were told to do this in the wake of the Heysel disaster?

[Platypuss]

no, firstly i had to pay in the first instance, im quite happy to pay again if i lost it, its my fault, but i dont see why i should have to have a bloody card to get a match ticket, its not so loyal fans get tickets first, bollocks, its about making money.

No, it is about knowing who you are selling tickets to.
it is about simplifying ground entry.
It is about collecting data.
it is about a huge amount of things other than making money (let's face it £2 a card is not a real money maker, it just about covers the costs!)

How was the previous £10 charge justified?

[voice of reason]

I'm pretty sure the club made a member card compulsory for all home fans only when we were in the Premiership. One of the reasons for this is because it was anticiapted, and more often than not accurately so, that the club would be able to fill the seats of genuine fans without needing the support of casual fans. Therefore having a member card as compulsory helped to give priority to fans with a member card but a low points tally that wished to continue to support the club, over fans who had no intention of continuing to support the club and therefore wouldn't have a member card.

Also,and possibly the biggest reason for compulsory member cards, is the difficulty the club has in differentiating between away fans that cant get away tickets and resort to sitting in the home end and the casual fans that you mentioned wanting to go to the odd game. Now that we are in the championship with smaller away followings and clubs possibly being given the whole of the south stand I wouldn't be surprised if only select games were "member card holders only". Have you tried phoning the ticket office and getting a paper ticket for the Plymouth game? Unless they have sold out the away end i'd be surprised if they said no.

P.s Member cards are a brilliant idea you will struggle to find a really good argument against them. The only thing up for debate is weather they should be compulsory.In the Premiership definately - if fans only want to watch Reading for one game because they are in the premiership, or worse because they are supporting the other team, we should get every penny out of them we can! In the Championship there probably isn't really any need for them except it might encourage fans to go again in order to get their moneys worth from from what they have paid for their member card? but probably not.

[voice of reason]

no, firstly i had to pay in the first instance, im quite happy to pay again if i lost it, its my fault, but i dont see why i should have to have a bloody card to get a match ticket, its not so loyal fans get tickets first, bollocks, its about making money.

No, it is about knowing who you are selling tickets to.
it is about simplifying ground entry.
It is about collecting data.
it is about a huge amount of things other than making money (let's face it £2 a card is not a real money maker, it just about covers the costs!)

How was the previous £10 charge justified?

People jumping on the Premiership bandwagon? Anyone buying a member card in either of the first two seasons in the Premiership I would say there is a pretty gd chance they are starting to watch Reading because they are in the Premiership and the club feels less need to be sympathetic in what price they charge them?

[Southbank Old Boy]

no, firstly i had to pay in the first instance, im quite happy to pay again if i lost it, its my fault, but i dont see why i should have to have a bloody card to get a match ticket, its not so loyal fans get tickets first, bollocks, its about making money.

No, it is about knowing who you are selling tickets to.
it is about simplifying ground entry.
It is about collecting data.
it is about a huge amount of things other than making money (let's face it £2 a card is not a real money maker, it just about covers the costs!)

All of the above are with the long term aim of making money at the expense of making it more difficult for people to get a ticket.

[Southbank Old Boy]

P.s Member cards are a brilliant idea you will struggle to find a really good argument against them. The only thing up for debate is weather they should be compulsory.In the Premiership definately - if fans only want to watch Reading for one game because they are in the premiership, or worse because they are supporting the other team, we should get every penny out of them we can! In the Championship there probably isn't really any need for them except it might encourage fans to go again in order to get their moneys worth from from what they have paid for their member card? but probably not.

What about I don't the club to store my personal data?

What about the fact that I need to have one to buy a ticket and it's potentially stopping me from spending money on the club?

What are the benefits to the supporter apart from the ability to track my purchasing history to help prioritise regular supporters during ticket allocations? Bear in mind that this only helps a select few and not all member card holders.

I can't see why you'd say these are "brilliant"

[Rex]

The club is gearing completely towards member cards. Cashless system being one of these incentives.

Data protection and the principles behind it are not really an arguement. The general public need to be more aware of how much personal information on an individual is in the public domain. Credit card companies know about supporters spending habits if not paying cash for season tickets / individual match tickets. Banks know what your money is spent on. Football is excess disposable income no matter how we sometimes moan about the cost of supporting.

What difference will it make if the club is just one more company that has information on a member of the public. Southbank your principles are sound but sadly (without sounding harsh) a little jaded.

My bank is always moaning about my cash outlay because i nearly always pay cask on transactions and they cannot trace my spending habits . Have told be bank to stop being nosy buggers as its my well earnt money!!

[voice of reason]

P.s Member cards are a brilliant idea you will struggle to find a really good argument against them. The only thing up for debate is weather they should be compulsory.In the Premiership definately - if fans only want to watch Reading for one game because they are in the premiership, or worse because they are supporting the other team, we should get every penny out of them we can! In the Championship there probably isn't really any need for them except it might encourage fans to go again in order to get their moneys worth from from what they have paid for their member card? but probably not.

What about I don't the club to store my personal data?

What about the fact that I need to have one to buy a ticket and it's potentially stopping me from spending money on the club?

What are the benefits to the supporter apart from the ability to track my purchasing history to help prioritise regular supporters during ticket allocations? Bear in mind that this only helps a select few and not all member card holders.

I can't see why you'd say these are "brilliant"

The personal data will surely only include things like what Reading matches you have been to see, your date of birth and address? Unless your some sort of closet plastic whats wrong with this.

Because the member card system ensures you have the ability to buy a ticket ahead of some some casual/away fan who could otherwise be sitting in your seat? It also helps to ensure the safety of you and other fans by preventing away fans that could potentially cause violence in the home end.

"What are the benefits to the supporter apart from the ability to track my purchasing history to help prioritise regular supporters during ticket allocations? Bear in mind that this only helps a select few and not all member card holders."

er . . . . lol? You idiot. This is a pretty significant benefit for any true Reading fan. You have clearly never tried buy a ticket for a match with greater demand than supply. How would you feel if you have just been up to see Reading away at Hull midweek and then Arsenal away comes along and you can't go and watch it because 3000 odd fans decide for that to be their one and only away game of the season.

You cannot deny that the benefits of the member card system outweight the cost (usually minimal) to any real Reading fan. And it is these true Reading fans that benefit from the system that club should be actively looking to help, not the casual one game a season fans. How can you critisize the club for trying to help their most loyal fans?

[Southbank Old Boy]

The personal data will surely only include things like what Reading matches you have been to see, your date of birth and address? Unless your some sort of closet plastic whats wrong with this.

Not a lot wrong with it, but I was quite happy when the club didn't hold onto personal data like this. It didn't stop me getting to or enjoying my football. I didn't have to put up with unsolicited mail which I can't be bothered to request a suppression for.

As someone who works with b2b and b2c data for a living I am fully aware of how powerful it can be and how companies use it for their own benefit, not for that of its "customers."

Because the member card system ensures you have the ability to buy a ticket ahead of some some casual/away fan who could otherwise be sitting in your seat? It also helps to ensure the safety of you and other fans by preventing away fans that could potentially cause violence in the home end.

No it doesn't. I've seen plenty, and been with quite a few, away fans in the home ends. I know of plenty of opposition fans who have member cards and as far as I'm aware the club do not prevent anyone from buying a member card on the basis of address, which can easily be made up anyway.

"What are the benefits to the supporter apart from the ability to track my purchasing history to help prioritise regular supporters during ticket allocations? Bear in mind that this only helps a select few and not all member card holders."

er . . . . lol? You idiot. This is a pretty significant benefit for any true Reading fan. You have clearly never tried buy a ticket for a match with greater demand than supply. How would you feel if you have just been up to see Reading away at Hull midweek and then Arsenal away comes along and you can't go and watch it because 3000 odd fans decide for that to be their one and only away game of the season.

I think I've probably bought a lot more high demand tickets than most, including you, thank you very much. More importantly I've probably bought a lot more low demand tickets too.

If you read what I said you'd realise I said it was a benefit to those with the higher points, the select few. It's not a benefit to those who might not be eligable for tickets because of their points tally. This doesn't need a member card to operate, all it needs is a proof of purchase or history of activity.

I'm not against this in priniciple but it is the only benefit to SOME of the card holders and it's more of a benefit to the club itself. We fans got by a long time before these schemes were introduced.

You cannot deny that the benefits of the member card system outweight the cost (usually minimal) to any real Reading fan. And it is these true Reading fans that benefit from the system that club should be actively looking to help, not the casual one game a season fans. How can you critisize the club for trying to help their most loyal fans?

Again, there is no need for a casual fan to have a card. That is the point. The card does not have to be mandatory.

A points system, or proof of purchase system to reward loyal fans is great. Especially if your a loyal fan. However, if you take a longer term view you realise it creates a bit of a closed shop and an elitist attitude to supporting the club. How? Because, for example, if your an 18 year old looking to embark on your first season of attending lots of away games with a group of mates and you've all got low points, you might struggle to get tickets. How do you get into the select top 500 away fans to ensure tickets? You get forced into going to games you might not want to.

The club use the data and the cards as a marketing tool to drive ticket sales and to allowing the to market to their fan base.

If you can't see that then you are the idiot, and a naive one at that.

[bobby1413]

The club is gearing completely towards member cards. Cashless system being one of these incentives.

I can see the OP's point-of-view in many ways.

For example, if my Dad came to visit (from Kent) and wanted to come along to a match, and I wanted to buy before the day to secure the tickets, he would require a membercard. I know full well that it would be over 2 years before he came again, but still would need the plastic card just to come to watch the game.

Also, this cashless business, he would need to put some money on the card just to buy a drink or something - isn't that right with the new system?

It does make it quite hard, however Iwould imagine Reading are not really concerned with one-off fans as I don't think we have many that are in that position, it's more clubs like Manchester United, Arsenal, etc... that primarily have those sorts of visitors.

[voice of reason]

The only mail I ever recieved from the club is relevant information and offers regarding my ST, normally only once at the start of each season. It clearly says on the OS that information will NOT be sold on to third parties without consent.

I never said it solved the problem altogether as determined away fans will nearly always find a way to watch a game, especially when they have Reading supporting friends like yourself, I said it helps. I am sure there have been away fans planning ahead that have been put off from purchasing in the home end due the member card issue, and I am sure there have been some fans that have'nt but at least the club made some extra money out of them! Every cloud and all that . . .

Of course it COULD lead to a situation where an elite group of supporters with ever increasing royalty points is created, this is just a fact of life for a fan that starts supporting a club AFTER they experience some success. If I decided today I wanted to support and watch Arsenal or Manchester United I wouldn't expect to be given priority over those fans that watch the club already, because it wouldn't be fair. Fortunately for Reading this is not an issue as it doesn't have enough real hard core away fans to ever prevent someone who really wants to watch the club doing so and amassing the subsequent royalty points. I don't know of any more than about 2 or 3 games (home and away) last season that didn't go to general sale.

Sure the club might prevent some new fans from being able to watch matches, but if they didn't it would be at the expense of those fans that have been loyal and stuck by the club - probably putting them off the club for life. What the member card system does is ensure fairness and consistancy which is what is key to keeeping the loyal supporters who will continue to support your club through thick and think for generations, rather than letting the 18 year olds watch the matches who might instantly drop the club at the first sign of defeat. If you are looking at the long term then not sticking by the fans that have already proven their loyalty would be incredibly naive.

If you had of read what I wrote you would have seen that I also accept that making member cards compulsory is up for debate. Although in the Premiership it is my opinion they should be compulsory, unless we experience a sudden massive slump in demand, in the Championship I am more than prepared to accept they shouldn't be mandatory. So to sum up in principal we pretty much agree with each other?