Safe-Standing petition

[John Madejski's Wallet]

I do often wonder if there's a correlation between people who are against terracing, and age.

Are they maybe people who've grown up in the all-seater era, and have never experienced what terracing was actually like, and just know all the negative stereotypes of terracing - the uncomfortable crushes, the people pissing where they stood rather than going to the toilets, the crowd violence etc..

I think there is but not into he way you assume.

Many of those who are old enough to have had a lot of experience of standing, are now too 'old' to be bothered now. i.e. they've reached an age where they'd naturally rather sit.

[72 bus]

You can quite often see fine past someone stood in front.

You really are a thick oxf*rd

[72 bus]

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There are of course some who'd rather sit because they've aged, and standing for two hours isn't comfortable for them any more.

I prefer to sit because I either have a 12 hour night shift to go to straight after the game or have just finished one.
It's not about age.

[tmesis]

I do often wonder if there's a correlation between people who are against terracing, and age.

Are they maybe people who've grown up in the all-seater era, and have never experienced what terracing was actually like, and just know all the negative stereotypes of terracing - the uncomfortable crushes, the people pissing where they stood rather than going to the toilets, the crowd violence etc..

I think there is but not into he way you assume.

Many of those who are old enough to have had a lot of experience of standing, are now too 'old' to be bothered now. i.e. they've reached an age where they'd naturally rather sit.

Why would preferring to sit make people against the reintroduction of terracing? anyone who say they are against it purely because they don't want to stand just hasn't made the mental leap to realise that standing wouldn't be compulsory. Most of the ground would still be seated.

[Green]

I guess it's the nonsense that goes with it tmses.

Say what you like about all seater stadia but the game is a more middle class affair as a result of it.

[tmesis]

I guess it's the nonsense that goes with it tmses.

Say what you like about all seater stadia but the game is a more middle class affair as a result of it.

That might be true, but the upshot would also be that they'd be less likely to be near the kind of fan the don't like being near currently.

[Green]

Not much consolation when you're hit in the face with a firework, or have to listen to racist chanting.

[tmesis]

Not much consolation when you're hit in the face with a firework, or have to listen to racist chanting.

so you believe fans, if allowed to stand rather than sit, would become more racist and more like to bring flares into the ground?

There's been a much greater tolerance of standing in Y25/Y26 of late. I take it you've been appalled by the rise in racism and firework throwing that this has caused?

[Green]

Not much consolation when you're hit in the face with a firework, or have to listen to racist chanting.

so you believe fans, if allowed to stand rather than sit, would become more racist and more like to bring flares into the ground?

There's been a much greater tolerance of standing in Y25/Y26 of late. I take it you've been appalled by the rise in racism and firework throwing that this has caused?

I'm not saying I do, no. I'm trying to offer you reasons why some people might prefer the game as it is today.

But with regards to racism and fireworks - yeh I'd say the sport still has a problem here.

[Ian Royal]

But hardly linked to standing.

[tmesis]

I'm not saying I do, no. I'm trying to offer you reasons why some people might prefer the game as it is today.

But with regards to racism and fireworks - yeh I'd say the sport still has a problem here.

Yeah, but saying terraces could bring back racism, because there was racism on terraces in the 80s, is as baffling an argument as possibly suggesting terracing would stop pyro, as nobody had flares in the 1980s.

The anti-standing arguments, deliberately or otherwise, do often seem to riddled with logical fallacies.

[AthleticoSpizz]

I am an aging fence sitter here, however....

Despite the whys and where for's and what caused what, how many Ibrox (twice), Heysels and Hillsboro's have we had since all round seating?


Even at EP in the 5/6k days....sometimes you started at the top terrace steps, and ended up near the bottom ones, when some goon created a "surge" forward....H&S would dictate that it only took one or two to fall, then it could've had devastating effects.

I guess, that's where we are.

[weybridgewanderer]

Multiple times on this page alone has been mention of "re introducing terracing"

That is NOT what is being proposed!

[SPARTA]

I am an aging fence sitter here, however....

Despite the whys and where for's and what caused what, how many Ibrox (twice), Heysels and Hillsboro's have we had since all round seating?
Even at EP in the 5/6k days....sometimes you started at the top terrace steps, and ended up near the bottom ones, when some goon created a "surge" forward....H&S would dictate that it only took one or two to fall, then it could've had devastating effects. I guess, that's where we are.

Good points, and I remember the surges well in 94/95, one time leaving me with bruised ribs as I got crushed against one of the barriers; but none of that is applicable with Rail Seats. Also since seating was made compulsory, ticket control means there cannot be a situation of over-crowding, and that same process continues with safe standing. Your ticket is for that allocated numbered standing point. No surges, no over-crowding.

[weybridgewanderer]

I am an aging fence sitter here, however....

Despite the whys and where for's and what caused what, how many Ibrox (twice), Heysels and Hillsboro's have we had since all round seating?

The 2nd Ibrox disaster was because a stairwell collapsed, nothing to do with the terracing.

However, controlling the number of people entering the area better by having allocated standing spaces may lessened the impact.

Allocated standing spaces at Hilsborough would probably have significantly helped the situation

[AthleticoSpizz]

Thanks for the explanation Sparts

It all kind've makes sense, its just that stigma that has to be gotten over......believe me, i am on nobodies side here.

[AthleticoSpizz]

I am an aging fence sitter here, however....

Despite the whys and where for's and what caused what, how many Ibrox (twice), Heysels and Hillsboro's have we had since all round seating?

The 2nd Inrox disaster was because a stairwell collapsed, nothing to do with the terracing. Other than the concentrated mass of mobile folk

However, controlling the number of people entering the area better by having allocated standing spaces may lessened the impact. No doubt about it

Allocated standing spaces at Hilsborough would probably have significantly helped the situation

No doubt about it

[Winchester Royal]

If my knowledge is correct, the second Ibrox Disaster happened on the steep steps outside the stadium during a mass egress at the end of the game, so had nothing to do with the internal layout of the stadium itself or how the crowd were accommodated.

[loyalroyaldaz]

I dont have anything against safe standing but it would be a right pisser for anybody who has a ST in an area changed to safe standing who doesnt want to stand.
And before the standers start with the old "well they can move" stuff just imagine if they decided that the Safe Standing area would be Y19 or Somewhere other than Y26. How pissed off would you be then?

[SPARTA]

I dont have anything against safe standing but it would be a right pisser for anybody who has a ST in an area changed to safe standing who doesnt want to stand.
And before the standers start with the old "well they can move" stuff just imagine if they decided that the Safe Standing area would be Y19 or Somewhere other than Y26. How pissed off would you be then?

That's another reason I can't see it going in the North Stand. The persistent standers are in Y25/Y26, and that seems to be the the main group calling for safe standing, and they wont move behind the goal and lose the interaction with the away fans. It may even be the club decide to make only Y25/Y26 safe standing, or even only the back half of that section safe standing. That also brings an 80% capacity increase. It would satisfy the immediate demand for it, make those who stand anyway safer, and then act as a trial with a view to approaching the fans on adding more elsewhere and where would they want it. We're all throwing ideas out there, but for me that would feel the best place to start.