Standing

[Snowflake Royal]

Pretty sure this came up several years ago, back when the club actually considered fans opinions. From what i recall, the stadium design made it a no go.

on top of that, fans don't exist in the eyes of the club anymore, you are a customer. So what's in it for the club to convert areas to safe standing? Nothing, unless it will attract more people in. But almost all the 'customers' that want to stand will turn up regardless, so its looks a complete non starter to me.

This would hold more water if the club hadn't listened to a small group of fans trying to improve the atmosphere and given them half the away end and free reign to stand to do it. Which has developed to regularly hundreds sometimes a thousand or 2.

If clubs and Gov have any sense, this will need to happen for away fans as well as home, given away are some of the most persistent standers.

Which makes South the absolute obvious choice.

Higher %share to away fans in some comps is a good issue to flag by whoever it was though.

I seem to recall talk of our rake being too steep for safe standing before. I'm not sure we'll be early adopters, but do think we'll get it sooner or later.

And it will have to go where the fans want it, because there's no point building it where standers don't want to be, snoozeville Northstand, or current STHs of long standing (Lolz)want to stay sitting.

Also, Big FU to all the pricks saying this would never happen and campaigning for it was a waste of time.

[Green]

Seems to me people want a return to terracing, all things being equal I wouldn't mind it myself.

But is "safe standing" that? Even if it were delivered it's never going to be anything like Elm Park.

Whoever said it was now moot as standing in the seats is now turned a blind eye to was on the money.

[paultheroyal]

No. Because few people there want to stand or sing. Or they would already be doing it.

Dur... let's put the standing section where no one wants it and leave the people already standing anyway in a seating section.

oxf*rd me Paul. That's on a par with dd.

Do you have to argue every point like the utter bell you are?

You know the point i am making and you can easily accommodate those fans who want to sit down, listen to five live and watch the game including yourself in a similar area. But hey you crack on x

Yeah, it's definitely me being the div who started being a Nob.

Probably that is the first time ever that we can agree on one of your posts. Cheers.

[Dirk Gently]

Seems to me people want a return to terracing, all things being equal I wouldn't mind it myself.

But is "safe standing" that? Even if it were delivered it's never going to be anything like Elm Park.

Whoever said it was now moot as standing in the seats is now turned a blind eye to was on the money.

Large scale terraces will never return. Not because they're inherently unsafe - which they're patenbtly not - but because there's no way to control numbers and ensure an equal distribution of crowd across them. The larger the terrace, the harder it is to manage this crowd distribution.

Rail seated areas ("safe-standing" as a term isn't helpful to the overall debate becasue it implies some standing areas are unsafe, which is incorrect) without reserved spaces, where there is freedom of crowd mobility within those areas, arethe best anyone is ever going to get.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Ive never actually stood in a safe standing area. For those that have, does it make a big difference to the experience?

I stand on a terrace a fair amount still as i spend most Saturday's at a non league ground somewhere. Halifax might be the biggest one left, Ebbsfleet have an open terrace that must hold about 2k. The barriers at Ebbsfleet have been refurbed and stretch right across the whole terrace with the only gaps being yellow marked gangways.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Another example of safe terracing that isn't actually "Safe standing" at Maidstone

[Dirk Gently]

Ive never actually stood in a safe standing area. For those that have, does it make a big difference to the experience?

I stand on a terrace a fair amount still as i spend most Saturday's at a non league ground somewhere. Halifax might be the biggest one left, Ebbsfleet have an open terrace that must hold about 2k. The barriers at Ebbsfleet have been refurbed and stretch right across the whole terrace with the only gaps being yellow marked gangways.

I'd recommend Carlisle (with a paddock) and Morton for largeish old style terraces. To answer your question though, I've done the Yellow Wall at Dusseldorf which is rail-seating ("safe-standing" is a discredited term which shouldn't be used in this context) and the experience was very good - not really much different from getting early to an old-style terrace and making sure you had a crash-bar to lean on.

[Sutekh]

A club has a terrace. It can accommodate standing. There are crash barriers on the terrace. Club is told the safe capacity for said terrace and makes a number of tickets available that is commensurate with that capacity.

Only problem I can see with re-introducing standing is that the design of some terraces in modern stadia means their rake gives for a cr@p view (so a bit like being at Loftus Road really).

[Dirk Gently]

A club has a terrace. It can accommodate standing. There are crash barriers on the terrace. Club is told the safe capacity for said terrace and makes a number of tickets available that is commensurate with that capacity.

Only problem I can see with re-introducing standing is that the design of some terraces in modern stadia means their rake gives for a cr@p view (so a bit like being at Loftus Road really).

You'd think so, and for smaller terraces yes - but if a terrace has a capacity of, say, 4,000 and 75% of those decide to stand at one end the ground authorites have no way to get the crowd spread more evenly across that terrace. It's uncontrolled movement of crowds within enclosures that is seen as the safety issue, not whether they're standing or sitting.

The Taylor Report doesn't say that sitting is safer than standing - the crucial point about seats is that there's a specific number of them, and they're (usually!) fixed down, so if you sell that number of tickets you have a static crowd that won't move, surge or fall.

[KentRoyal]

Another example of safe terracing that isn't actually "Safe standing" at Maidstone

Having been to a few Maidstone games, yes that terracing is practical, as it can fit more people in, but quite a lot of the time you can be packed like sardines, with little to no room to move. I understand that people want to stand, but I feel that would only be achievable with ‘safe standing’, as I believe that would be a safer option than old fashioned terraces imo.

[John Smith]

I might be wrong, but I don’t think the South Stand is the right place for any infrastructure change. In the event that we get promoted, we’ll need to offer travelling clubs 10% of the ground’s capacity, which is more than half the South Stand. (We might also have to do so in some FA Cup matches)

Think it makes more sense to put infrastructure for the home fans in the home section, and infrastructure for away fans in the permanent away end.

There might be safety/security concerns around using Y26, so maybe we’ll use a different bit of the East Stand. Not sure trying to establish a standing section in the North West corner would work - suspect there’s a lot of overlap between people who want to stand and people who want to make rude gestures at the away fans and those people just wouldn’t relocate.

I agree. I think the sooner we bin off Club1871 the better - constantly moving and making things awkward for everyone including their fellow fans.

[Dirk Gently]

Surely it's patently obvious that if there were to be a rail-seating area then there would be no need for Club1871?

The demographic of supporters that both/either appeals to is virtually the same.

[SCIAG]

Surely it's patently obvious that if there were to be a rail-seating area then there would be no need for Club1871?

The demographic of supporters that both/either appeals to is virtually the same.

Agree - as things stand it would be very hard to justify them both.

[Snowflake Royal]

Surely it's patently obvious that if there were to be a rail-seating area then there would be no need for Club1871?

The demographic of supporters that both/either appeals to is virtually the same.

Agree - as things stand it would be very hard to justify them both.

It would just be the C1871 area, surely?

Obvs those in C1871 will be the ones that use it, they're the ones that stand and sing.

[Simmops]

Moving C1871 to it's current location is most likely part of the plan. As it's an enclosed area. Which can be totally rail seated. Won't this season whatever. As will take some weeks to undertake the work.

Just disband C1871. They have no value and no use anymore. Its a failure experiment and massive waste of money

[Simmops]

So standing in the northwest which is sleepy will get the atmosphere going for those who want to stand - perfect - we agreed. Cheers.

No. Because few people there want to stand or sing. Or they would alhes ready be doing it.

Dur... let's put the standing section where no one wants it and leave the people already standing anyway in a seating section.

oxf*rd me Paul. That's on a par with dd.

Do you have to argue every point like the utter bell you are?

You know the point i am making and you can easily accommodate those fans who want to sit down, listen to five live and watch the game including yourself in a similar area. But hey you crack on x

Just leave him he Paul.... he has small man and small dick syndrome.

[Simmops]

I might be wrong, but I don’t think the South Stand is
the right place for any infrastructure change. In the event that we get promoted, we’ll need to offer travelling clubs 10% of the ground’s capacity, which is more than half the South Stand. (We might also have to do so in some FA Cup matches)

Think it makes more sense to put infrastructure for the home fans in the home section, and infrastructure for away fans in the permanent away end.

There might be safety/security concerns around using Y26, so maybe we’ll use a different bit of the East Stand. Not sure trying to establish a standing section in the North West corner would work - suspect there’s a lot of overlap between people who want to stand and people who want to make rude gestures at the away fans and those people just wouldn’t relocate.

I agree. I think the sooner we bin off Club1871 the better - constantly moving and making things awkward for everyone including their fellow fans.

+1

I'm embarrassed to say I suppose RFC because people associate it with Club1871