Home Attendance Watch

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

But surely at some of the matches when we were in the Premier league, which were supposedly sold out, they announced an attendance of less than the full capacity. How does that work then?

I would assume they count people in hospitality suites etc, where they don't have a set number of tickets sold, but are allowed up to a certain number of guests per box.

I think it's been traditional to count season ticket holders whether they turn up or not, but all other tickets are genuine "through the turnstiles". It dates back to the days of cash turnstiles, when you had to assume every season ticket holder will turn up to avoid locking them out when capacity is close to being reached - i.e. if you have a 15000 capacity ground with 5000 season tickets, you can't let more than 10000 people in who are paying on the day.


As for dodgy Elm Park crowds, they were always dodgy in looking too low. You'd play someone like Shrewsbury one week, who'd bring 150, and have a crowd of 4000 announced, and the following week there'd be 2500 Sunderland fans there and the crowd would be 5000.

[Dirk Gently]

As for dodgy Elm Park crowds, they were always dodgy in looking too low. You'd play someone like Shrewsbury one week, who'd bring 150, and have a crowd of 4000 announced, and the following week there'd be 2500 Sunderland fans there and the crowd would be 5000.

One of the reasons that most clubs have moved away from cash turnstiles is that there's such scope for fraud. Not just the risk of the cash going into the turnstile operator's pocket but also the fact that VAT is paid on the attendance....

Without any inference or implication on anyone, at some clubs the directors were in the habit of going round the turnstiles at halftime with a sack and colecting all the money, then taking it home to count it. There's an ex-Reading director who was alleged to do this at another club he joined since, but I won't name the person involved but I won't risk the comeback.

[Mad Dog's Ghost]

Whistle. What's your obsession with Bradford. They sell 13k sts for a shilling each and they turn up for most games because there's not a lot else to do of a tuesday night in Bradford.

You think it's some kind of NASA conspiracy.

[Whistle]

Whistle. What's your obsession with Bradford. They sell 13k sts for a shilling each and they turn up for most games because there's not a lot else to do of a tuesday night in Bradford.

You think it's some kind of NASA conspiracy.

It's just the most obvious discrepancy between tickets sold and numbers (likely to be) in the ground. Given the season they had (mid table Lge 2 ) last year I just can't believe 13,000+ turned up for every game - an average increase of 5000 on the previous season when they were relegated. If you can provide me reports from a respected Bradford fan that say otherwise I'll eat humble pie.

Dirk correctly spells out the PL policy on reported attendances - Ian Royal please note - though some clubs only starting toeing that line in the last year or two.

[Sharpy]

got swansea ticket today, expecting 20,000 max with the swans bringing 3k ish

[Jackson Corner]

Why do you think your card is scanned when you go through the turnstile? This is done to show how many people come to the games so giving the correct attendance. If a season ticket holder does not come then he or she is not included in the gate figure.

[Platypuss]

Why do you think your card is scanned when you go through the turnstile?

To let it open?

[Dirk Gently]

Why do you think your card is scanned when you go through the turnstile? This is done to show how many people come to the games so giving the correct attendance. If a season ticket holder does not come then he or she is not included in the gate figure.

That's mainly used for safety - since Hillsborough you need to know exactly how many people are physically in each section of the ground.

What is announced as the "attendance" needn't actually be that figure - it can just as easily be the total number of tickets sold. See posts above.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Whistle. What's your obsession with Bradford. They sell 13k sts for a shilling each and they turn up for most games because there's not a lot else to do of a tuesday night in Bradford.

You think it's some kind of NASA conspiracy.

It's just the most obvious discrepancy between tickets sold and numbers (likely to be) in the ground. Given the season they had (mid table Lge 2 ) last year I just can't believe 13,000+ turned up for every game - an average increase of 5000 on the previous season when they were relegated. If you can provide me reports from a respected Bradford fan that say otherwise I'll eat humble pie.

Dirk correctly spells out the PL policy on reported attendances - Ian Royal please note - though some clubs only starting toeing that line in the last year or two.

Bradford sold incredibly cheap season tickets, something like £100 or so, with the thinking being that the money those fans spend on other things while at the football would cover the money lost on ticket prices if they sold enough. That's why their crowds were so much higher.

[Whistle]

Whistle. What's your obsession with Bradford. They sell 13k sts for a shilling each and they turn up for most games because there's not a lot else to do of a tuesday night in Bradford.

You think it's some kind of NASA conspiracy.

It's just the most obvious discrepancy between tickets sold and numbers (likely to be) in the ground. Given the season they had (mid table Lge 2 ) last year I just can't believe 13,000+ turned up for every game - an average increase of 5000 on the previous season when they were relegated. If you can provide me reports from a respected Bradford fan that say otherwise I'll eat humble pie.

Dirk correctly spells out the PL policy on reported attendances - Ian Royal please note - though some clubs only starting toeing that line in the last year or two.

Bradford sold incredibly cheap season tickets, something like £100 or so, with the thinking being that the money those fans spend on other things while at the football would cover the money lost on ticket prices if they sold enough. That's why their crowds were so much higher.

YES we know all that. What we don;t know is how many of those with cheap ST's actually turn up to watch the games. I'm gonna have to ask someone from Bradford aren't I?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

YES we know all that. What we don;t know is how many of those with cheap ST's actually turn up to watch the games. I'm gonna have to ask someone from Bradford aren't I?

what makes you suspect they don't turn up?

[Dirk Gently]

YES we know all that. What we don;t know is how many of those with cheap ST's actually turn up to watch the games. I'm gonna have to ask someone from Bradford aren't I?

what makes you suspect they don't turn up?

The cheaper something is the less value to them people feel it has - so the lower the ticket price the greater the number of no-shows.

[Mad Dog's Ghost]

Why would it be in Bradford city's interests to declare a figure higher than the actual attendance.

Think they sold about 12k STs last year ... saying they've got 13k-plus in the ground alerts HM Inspector of Taxes to extra on-the-day revenue. Why would they want to do that?

Attendances are usually announced before the end of the game too, so declaring an incorrect figure probaby isn't smart from a health and safety aspect. I'd have thought Bradford would be pretty sensitive to that, bearing in mind their history.

[papereyes]

Whistle. What's your obsession with Bradford. They sell 13k sts for a shilling each and they turn up for most games because there's not a lot else to do of a tuesday night in Bradford.

You think it's some kind of NASA conspiracy.

It's just the most obvious discrepancy between tickets sold and numbers (likely to be) in the ground. Given the season they had (mid table Lge 2 ) last year I just can't believe 13,000+ turned up for every game - an average increase of 5000 on the previous season when they were relegated. If you can provide me reports from a respected Bradford fan that say otherwise I'll eat humble pie.

Dirk correctly spells out the PL policy on reported attendances - Ian Royal please note - though some clubs only starting toeing that line in the last year or two.

Bradford sold incredibly cheap season tickets, something like £100 or so, with the thinking being that the money those fans spend on other things while at the football would cover the money lost on ticket prices if they sold enough. That's why their crowds were so much higher.

Also aimed at getting younger fans back into the club. There was a good article in the Guardian about it - it seems that fans don't mind the football if a)its cheap and b) there's some sense of community there.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008 ... wofootball

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

YES we know all that. What we don;t know is how many of those with cheap ST's actually turn up to watch the games. I'm gonna have to ask someone from Bradford aren't I?

what makes you suspect they don't turn up?

The cheaper something is the less value to them people feel it has - so the lower the ticket price the greater the number of no-shows.

are you saying if you could buy a season ticket a Reading for £100, you'd be more likely to miss games?

I'd agree that maybe some might think that it wouldn't be so much of a waste if they gave the odd game a miss, but whistle seems to be implying that he thinks several thousand season ticket holders don't bother going to each match. I find that rather difficult to believe as going to football is a very habitual thing, and once you get into the habit of going regularly, you keep going.

[Whistle]

I think this should answer the question once and for all.

FROM A KEEN BRADFORD FAN: "Your question is one that I and other City fans debated alot last season and the attendance against Barnet was one that was of particular interest. I recall ... that the PA announcer would find it very hard announcing the attendance whilst keeping a straight face when it would be very obvious that there were nowhere near 13,000 fans in the ground. The Banet match took place when the Liverpool v Chelsea semi final was being shown live on ITV. I would guess there were barely 8,000 fans inside Valley Parade that night, which in itself is a good attendance, but it was a joke to say that the true attendance was 13,000.

The average (estimated) non attendance of season ticket holders was 2,000. And apparently there is no law or football league rule that says clubs can't count sold season tickets as being a the game, even if they aren't."

[North Somerset Royal]

Here is the official answer from RFC. So I was wrong Apologies

Dear David



Thank you for your email.



In common with the majority of clubs, the attendance figure announced at Madejski Stadium is the total number of tickets sold.



Best wishes



Andy West

Reading FC

[Deathy]

Interesting to see we out did Birmingham's attendance on Saturday by about 300.

I'm not sure why their fans are not quite as behind them as they have been before...massive club and all that. On current form I'd be expecting to see 21,000's out them each week.

Ours was quite pleasing considering Burnley brought a dissapointing amount with them. Maybe a 1000?

[dean horrix legend]

Interesting to see we out did Birmingham's attendance on Saturday by about 300.

I'm not sure why their fans are not quite as behind them as they have been before...massive club and all that. On current form I'd be expecting to see 21,000's out them each week.

Ours was quite pleasing considering Burnley brought a dissapointing amount with them. Maybe a 1000?

I think being on TV and the early kick off deters a fair few people from going,not just at Birmingham but all clubs.

[Deathy]

Interesting to see we out did Birmingham's attendance on Saturday by about 300.

I'm not sure why their fans are not quite as behind them as they have been before...massive club and all that. On current form I'd be expecting to see 21,000's out them each week.

Ours was quite pleasing considering Burnley brought a dissapointing amount with them. Maybe a 1000?

I think being on TV and the early kick off deters a fair few people from going,not just at Birmingham but all clubs.

Ah, I didn't realise they were on the box.