TSI - The Promises, Policies & Progress Thread

[SPARTA]

You misunderstand, guys. My fault for not making myself clearer.

I am not necessarily accusing TSI of asset-stripping, but I don't understand where the absolute certainty of their having the most honest of intentions at all times comes from Football in this country has been littered over the last decade with shadowy conglomerates seizing control of clubs, promising non-specific things, perhaps even spending big money in the offset.....and then things unravelling dramatically when the financial costs don't add up

I realise that a 'trust no-one' attitude is akin to refusing to go outside in case it rains, but TSI have so many question marks hanging over them - where is the funding coming from and how are they structured? How much funding is there? What are their targets? Why hasn't the other 49% been purchased yet? - that it is too easy to be cynical I realise the complete impracticality and unlikelihood of hearing answers to those questions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that supporters shouldn't be concerned as to what those answers might be. I wonder whether Pompey fans regret not asking more questions when their club was spunking money around rather than waving their d*cks around celebrating an FA Cup win which was achieved in a way which was almost fraudulent

So they aren't asset-stripping.....yet. But if the targets aren't achieved and they don't make enough money out of their project - because they aint investing out of goodwill, folks - what might their exit strategy be Large facility next to the M4, nice several-acre site in Wokingham.....nice portfolio they are building up

It's a good post, and they're valid points.

So who is paying for this fancy multi million pound new training ground then? AZ hasn't got the £25m needed to buy the remaining 49% and SJM has confirmed that they haven't even discussed a date to conclude the take-over, and we know SJM hasn't got the money for this sort of investment. So are we talking about a monster loan against the club? Like against the stadium as was rumoured recently, but possibly misconstrued as being for the take-over money.. Someone is paying for it, and it's most likely the club itself, not our savours TSI.

[Terminal Boardom]

Not aimed at FS or anyone else specifically but more in general...

So, instead of speculating as to the whos, whys and wherefores as to the manner in which TSI is acquiring sole ownership of the club, why not raise the question directly to the club instead of doing the "Look At Me, I know 3/4s of 7/8ths of bugger all" shit on an internet forum?

Back in 1994, I wrote to the Club asking them what plans were in place to enable Elm Park to comply with the Taylor Report. The reply I received, from Mike Lewis in brand new crayon was enlightening to say the least.

Or raise it at a Fans Forum or ask TASS. But instead of whingeing about something, do something constructive.

[Extended-Phenotype]

:?:

Hardly. I just asked "and why haven't they told us why things are delayed?" Then resident clanger HRH runs into the room and starts screaming at me.

I appreciate you get a rape hard-on for anyone who even delicately questions RFC but while for spamming threads about drugs and flavours of crisps you are indeed vital, your endorsement in genuine conversations don't carry much value.

Hey!

We didn't spend as required and promised. That's a fact not a perception. The reason behind the lack of spending, I agree, is a matter of opinion.

But with the delay in buyout you can't help putting two and two together, even if it may prove to make five. I think it's a fair enough concern, and think it's fair enough to raise on a forum.

Valid argument. It still worries me that we are being told by the club that the official line is still "we are comfortable with what is happening".

I mean, why not explain what is happening, or confirm or deny what is being printed? Sure, it might be a bit Chicken Licken as Brendo pointed out but it's not like it's a far fetched conspiracy theory. We underperformed in the transfer market, the buyout of the club has been inexplicably delayed and looking back what we have spent could have been covered by the club without Anton.

So why hasn't he paid SJM yet?

And why aren't we allowed to know why?

I do understand why you need to pretend I've been in any way hysterical or irrational, and I sympathise. But true, it ain't. In your blind Minitrue rage perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

[winchester_royal]

You misunderstand, guys. My fault for not making myself clearer.

I am not necessarily accusing TSI of asset-stripping, but I don't understand where the absolute certainty of their having the most honest of intentions at all times comes from Football in this country has been littered over the last decade with shadowy conglomerates seizing control of clubs, promising non-specific things, perhaps even spending big money in the offset.....and then things unravelling dramatically when the financial costs don't add up

I realise that a 'trust no-one' attitude is akin to refusing to go outside in case it rains, but TSI have so many question marks hanging over them - where is the funding coming from and how are they structured? How much funding is there? What are their targets? Why hasn't the other 49% been purchased yet? - that it is too easy to be cynical I realise the complete impracticality and unlikelihood of hearing answers to those questions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that supporters shouldn't be concerned as to what those answers might be. I wonder whether Pompey fans regret not asking more questions when their club was spunking money around rather than waving their d*cks around celebrating an FA Cup win which was achieved in a way which was almost fraudulent

So they aren't asset-stripping.....yet. But if the targets aren't achieved and they don't make enough money out of their project - because they aint investing out of goodwill, folks - what might their exit strategy be Large facility next to the M4, nice several-acre site in Wokingham.....nice portfolio they are building up

It's a good post, and they're valid points.

So who is paying for this fancy multi million pound new training ground then? AZ hasn't got the £25m needed to buy the remaining 49% and SJM has confirmed that they haven't even discussed a date to conclude the take-over, and we know SJM hasn't got the money for this sort of investment. So are we talking about a monster loan against the club? Like against the stadium as was rumoured recently, but possibly misconstrued as being for the take-over money.. Someone is paying for it, and it's most likely the club itself, not our savours TSI.

Of course the club is sodding paying for it. What part of 'RFC will contiune to run on a prudent business-like basis' is so difficult for you to understand? Why should AZ be paying for it all out of his own pocket?

TSI have made us more ambitious in our plans to grow the club, but they have never claimed to be sugar daddys and have never promised to pump lots of outside money into the club. What they are tying to do is build a club that is able to fund 'ambitious' expenditure from its own revenue stream. Hence the attempts to grow the club brand in a variety of markets. They never said their intention was to do anything else.

[melonhead]

i think its all teh times youve abused people on here, and keep going on about it despite no one knowing any more than you on the matter
but if thats delicate in your book, thats fine. its just good to have your delicacy calibration so i can judge these things

[Extended-Phenotype]

i think its all teh times youve abused people on here, and keep going on about it despite no one knowing any more than you on the matter
but if thats delicate in your book, thats fine. its just good to have your delicacy calibration so i can judge these things

1. One small phase of abuse in response to being abused. MTFU.
2. Posted two or three times on this thread, as part of a conversation (dry your eyes, many apologies if it wasn't with you)
3. My delicacy calibration is set on 'normal'. You need to turn yours down from 'psychotically precious'.

[Esteban]

You misunderstand, guys. My fault for not making myself clearer.

I am not necessarily accusing TSI of asset-stripping, but I don't understand where the absolute certainty of their having the most honest of intentions at all times comes from Football in this country has been littered over the last decade with shadowy conglomerates seizing control of clubs, promising non-specific things, perhaps even spending big money in the offset.....and then things unravelling dramatically when the financial costs don't add up

I realise that a 'trust no-one' attitude is akin to refusing to go outside in case it rains, but TSI have so many question marks hanging over them - where is the funding coming from and how are they structured? How much funding is there? What are their targets? Why hasn't the other 49% been purchased yet? - that it is too easy to be cynical I realise the complete impracticality and unlikelihood of hearing answers to those questions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that supporters shouldn't be concerned as to what those answers might be. I wonder whether Pompey fans regret not asking more questions when their club was spunking money around rather than waving their d*cks around celebrating an FA Cup win which was achieved in a way which was almost fraudulent

So they aren't asset-stripping.....yet. But if the targets aren't achieved and they don't make enough money out of their project - because they aint investing out of goodwill, folks - what might their exit strategy be Large facility next to the M4, nice several-acre site in Wokingham.....nice portfolio they are building up

It's a good post, and they're valid points.

So who is paying for this fancy multi million pound new training ground then? AZ hasn't got the £25m needed to buy the remaining 49% and SJM has confirmed that they haven't even discussed a date to conclude the take-over, and we know SJM hasn't got the money for this sort of investment. So are we talking about a monster loan against the club? Like against the stadium as was rumoured recently, but possibly misconstrued as being for the take-over money.. Someone is paying for it, and it's most likely the club itself, not our savours TSI.

To be fair mate, even if this were being paid for by TSI, it would probably be as loans to the club, which require servicing.

The general perception of TSI on this forum seems to be that they are going to pay for everything in cash, whereas the reality is that won't happen. TSI are an investment vehicle. We could all offer to invest in it and leave Zingarevich and his directors (of TSI) to spend our money for us. They have to answer to any shareholders they have first and foremost, not us fans. And if I were a shareholder in TSI, I wouldn't want them to blow all of the capital on one project, without at the very least investigating and reporting on the alternative finance options. It's the same with the buyout. The deadline for buying the remaining 49% of shares should never have been disclosed publicly, as it leaves you open to speculation if you miss it; even if you miss it for a valid reason.

Structuring finance deals for football clubs, training facilities, players, etc, are not at all like finding the money to buy a house or a car, which is where most people have experience of loan purchases.

Having said that, and as Floyd rightly pointed out, there is a perception among our fan base that TSI are secretive and therefore, up to no good. It may be a minority, but the fact that those views are out there at all is something that the club have to deal with and they haven't done that at all. They should know better than that.

Not trying to teach you how to suck eggs, by the way Sparta, just using your post as a chance to get my views across.

[Green]

Basically agreed with floyd here.

Many a football fan has seen their club driven to extinction by unscrupulous owners so I think it's only right the default position is to be slightly cynical. Seems to me the club could be doing a great deal more to appease the cynics too, even JM in his interview didn't really say anything but fair play for at least breaking the silence.

[winchester_royal]

Tbf to Anton he has done a couple of pretty in depth interviews where he's outlined his 'vision' and he's pretty much done exactly what he said he would. He always maintained his focus would be on the academy and he's not let us down in that respect. Maybe some expected a bit more money being spent on transfers, but that was more based on him being Russian and rich rather than anything he actually said.

Should he have to open himself up to the press every week just because RFC fans have unrealistic expectations? Should the club have to respond to every baseless rumour that pops up on here?

They could perhaps have done more to reassure fans, but tbh we all have entrenched views that aren't likely to be swayed by a 2 line press release that all is fine. Actions speak louder than words and I've seen very little in what the club has done over the last 2 years that suggests Anton is risking the future of the club. Some will disagree I'm sure, but perhaps if we take a step back and look at what's actually happening in all areas of the club (rather than just transfer fees) then maybe some will start to appreciate the impact that AZ has made in the last 2 years.

Perhaps AZ is skint, perhaps the takeover will fall through, but the club has worked hard to ensure we're not reliant on outside investment so it shouldn't really be an issue. Unless of course you go along with the theory that AZ really is a fraudster but there is no way the club should even consider dignifying that particular rumour with any sort of response.

[melonhead]

Tbf to Anton he has done a couple of pretty in depth interviews where he's outlined his 'vision' and he's pretty much done exactly what he said he would. He always maintained his focus would be on the academy and he's not let us down in that respect. Maybe some expected a bit more money being spent on transfers, but that was more based on him being Russian and rich rather than anything he actually said.

Should he have to open himself up to the press every week just because RFC fans have unrealistic expectations? Should the club have to respond to every baseless rumour that pops up on here?

They could perhaps have done more to reassure fans, but tbh we all have entrenched views that aren't likely to be swayed by a 2 line press release that all is fine. Actions speak louder than words and I've seen very little in what the club has done over the last 2 years that suggests Anton is risking the future of the club. Some will disagree I'm sure, but perhaps if we take a step back and look at what's actually happening in all areas of the club (rather than just transfer fees) then maybe some will start to appreciate the impact that AZ has made in the last 2 years.

Perhaps AZ is skint, perhaps the takeover will fall through, but the club has worked hard to ensure we're not reliant on outside investment so it shouldn't really be an issue. Unless of course you go along with the theory that AZ really is a fraudster but there is no way the club should even consider dignifying that particular rumour with any sort of response.

^^^ thats where i happily stand on the matger until i have evidence in hand of the evil conspiracy style nature of TSI

[melonhead]

ok you mental

[floyd__streete]

maybe some will start to appreciate the impact that AZ has made in the last 2 years.

**Polite and genuine enquiry** could you please expand on what exactly this 'impact' is? Personally, I don't think that having 'The Royals' emblazoned on the back of one of the duffest Formula 1 cars ever made is particularly impactive, for instance. But I am sure you could list plenty of achievements which I might have missed

[The Rouge]

Basically agreed with floyd here.

Many a football fan has seen their club driven to extinction by unscrupulous owners so I think it's only right the default position is to be slightly cynical. Seems to me the club could be doing a great deal more to appease the cynics too, even JM in his interview didn't really say anything but fair play for at least breaking the silence.

I am not suggesting the default position should not be one of cynicism. I am just saying that there is an element of panic around things we can't control. The tone of some posters seems to be 'we should make them spend more' or 'they have not spent as much as I expected them to'. This is basically the one time they should have altered their strategy in terms of when to speak to fans, but if the real answer is that they are struggling to free up more cash, or even if there is no more cash, then what the blazes are we, as fans, going to do about it anyway?

I have never known short-term asset stripping owners to invest in the long-term development of youth players. Go figure.

[winchester_royal]

maybe some will start to appreciate the impact that AZ has made in the last 2 years.

**Polite and genuine enquiry** could you please expand on what exactly this 'impact' is? Personally, I don't think that having 'The Royals' emblazoned on the back of one of the duffest Formula 1 cars ever made is particularly impactive, for instance. But I am sure you could list plenty of achievements which I might have missed

I think getting Cat 1 status for the academy was crucial. Improving brand recognition is important for any future growth. The training ground always needed expanding if we wanted to move to the next level. Foreign partnerships like those in India and with Gala also help.

Nothing astonishing, I'll grant, but we're a small club that is trying to grow. Little steps are still signs of progress.

[melonhead]

maybe some will start to appreciate the impact that AZ has made in the last 2 years.

**Polite and genuine enquiry** could you please expand on what exactly this 'impact' is? Personally, I don't think that having 'The Royals' emblazoned on the back of one of the duffest Formula 1 cars ever made is particularly impactive, for instance. But I am sure you could list plenty of achievements which I might have missed

he's improved the club from where it was, and continues to build the infrastructure as promised;the category one status, and proposed new training ground are two things that could never have been done under SJM, as well as the rebuilding of our decimated scouting system.
promotion to the prem is one big one for which he can take some credit, and which will hopefully fund more club growth, and hopefully another return to the top flight.

Compared to SJMs last few years when he ran out of cash i think he's been at least mildly positive for us.

I trust him as far as i trust any business man/investor to try and grow the club to a point where he can sell up and take some profit.

[winchester_royal]

maybe some will start to appreciate the impact that AZ has made in the last 2 years.

**Polite and genuine enquiry** could you please expand on what exactly this 'impact' is? Personally, I don't think that having 'The Royals' emblazoned on the back of one of the duffest Formula 1 cars ever made is particularly impactive, for instance. But I am sure you could list plenty of achievements which I might have missed

he's improved the club from where it was, and continues to build the infrastructure as promised;the category one status, and proposed new training ground are two things that could never have been done under SJM, as well as the rebuilding of our decimated scouting system.
promotion to the prem is one big one for which he can take some credit, and which will hopefully fund more club growth, and hopefully another return to the top flight.

Compared to SJMs last few years when he ran out of cash i think he's been at least mildly positive for us.

I trust him as far as i trust any business man/investor to try and grow the club to a point where he can sell up and take some profit.

^

[floyd__streete]

I think getting Cat 1 status for the academy was crucial. Improving brand recognition is important for any future growth. The training ground always needed expanding if we wanted to move to the next level. Foreign partnerships like those in India and with Gala also help.

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue as to the merits of any of that - that would be ridiculous. I'd question how AZ/TSI himself/themselves are responsible for the academy and training ground - haven't they most likely just invested money which was already there in terms of Premier League television money/parachute payments? Again, genuine question there - not a rhetorical one - and I'm open to more informed theories to the contrary. And if my theory is correct then how exactly is that doing any more than what Madejski himself might have done?

[winchester_royal]

I think getting Cat 1 status for the academy was crucial. Improving brand recognition is important for any future growth. The training ground always needed expanding if we wanted to move to the next level. Foreign partnerships like those in India and with Gala also help.

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue as to the merits of any of that - that would be ridiculous. I'd question how AZ/TSI himself/themselves are responsible for the academy and training ground - haven't they most likely just invested money which was already there in terms of Premier League television money/parachute payments? Again, genuine question there - not a rhetorical one - and I'm open to more informed theories to the contrary. And if my theory is correct then how exactly is that doing any more than what Madejski himself might have done?

I agree, I think most of the money that is being invested is money that the club has generated itself. The difference, I believe, is that the club are going forward with the ambition of reaching a higher level, which towards the end of SJM's reign we weren't, and if extra investment is needed then TSI are able to provide it (probably in a form of a loan but that's how most/all owners of football clubs invest) e.g. the Roberts/Cywka/Connoly/Mullins signings, and I'd imagine the training ground develop will require extra funding as well.

The club was standing still 2 years ago. While AZ hasn't had a particularly large impact financially he does seem ambitious (if a little naive). He's trying to drive the club forward as a business, and that's the way it should be done. I don't expect him to pump lots of money into the club with no expectation of return, he's not a Reading fan so why would he? I do expect him to try and take the club forward in a way that will increase the value of the club as a business and make the investment he made worthwhile. If that happens then I think we'll benefit from it too.

[melonhead]

I think getting Cat 1 status for the academy was crucial. Improving brand recognition is important for any future growth. The training ground always needed expanding if we wanted to move to the next level. Foreign partnerships like those in India and with Gala also help.

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue as to the merits of any of that - that would be ridiculous. I'd question how AZ/TSI himself/themselves are responsible for the academy and training ground - haven't they most likely just invested money which was already there in terms of Premier League television money/parachute payments? Again, genuine question there - not a rhetorical one - and I'm open to more informed theories to the contrary. And if my theory is correct then how exactly is that doing any more than what Madejski himself might have done?

????
id be wary of putting too much credit on AZ for our being there at all. but he surely must get some



and its doing more cos no matter how much money he has, or doesnt, its more than SJM was able to put in.
anton is "happy" to maintain a 5 million a year loss in the champ where SJM was incapable of doing so.

[Platypuss]

Somewhat unsurprisingly ( ), this has gone exactly the same way as the 936 other threads on exactly the same subject.