A bit worrying

[Schards#2]

When tickets sell out is very relevent if the argument is about the level of demand.

Clearly, the sooner they sell out, the higher the level of demand.

Surely the sooner they sell out it shows that the most committed fans have them and the rest of the card holders do not?

Yes, when they sell out quickly, it means that people buy them as soon as they are permitted to.

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

[Skyline]

So the attendance - i.e the number of people that attended the game, was less than last year.

So you're taking the official attendance figure from the first game last year and the Chelsea game last year as gospel, but for the game this year you are saying it is obviously a lie because 'there were loads of empty seats'? I'd like to think you've got the intelligence to understand the flaw in your logic here.

The desire for tickets to see RFC is, apparently, in decline this season. Less season tickets sold than last year, and now games going to general sale, whereas last year there was only one all season, apparently.

So if there were fewer season tickets sold last year than this, and yet the game actually has a higher official attendance figure than the equivalent games (whether in time of season or opponent) last year, then surely that means that the demand for general sale tickets is actually higher?

Last year's official Chelsea attendance was 24025. This years was 24031.

Assume that the club counts all STs as 'attending' every game, and assume that Chelsea brought as many last year as they did this (last year was a Saturday, this year was midweek, so it's highly likely they brought as many if not more last year). If we take the widely banded about figures of 18,000 STs last year and 17,000 this year, can you see how it means that 1000 more 'casuals' attended this year than last?

Like I said in a previous post, maybe we should let this one rest until end September / start October and see how things are stacking up then.

[The 17 Bus]

ignoring the fact that many many people are still on holiday tho?

[sheshnu]

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

Surely it's the same demand, but different customers? Stranded said earlier that more fans attended last night's fixture than attended the Chelsea home game last year so I don't think you can argue that demand is falling (although it's too small a sample to argue either way I suppose).

[Stranded]

When tickets sell out is very relevent if the argument is about the level of demand.

Clearly, the sooner they sell out, the higher the level of demand.

Surely the sooner they sell out it shows that the most committed fans have them and the rest of the card holders do not?

Yes, when they sell out quickly, it means that people buy them as soon as they are permitted to.

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

From a smaller potential market. If we simply want to limit ticket sales to those that have already been to a certain number of games in the past then we will never grow as a club.

[Schards#2]

When tickets sell out is very relevent if the argument is about the level of demand.

Clearly, the sooner they sell out, the higher the level of demand.

Surely the sooner they sell out it shows that the most committed fans have them and the rest of the card holders do not?

Yes, when they sell out quickly, it means that people buy them as soon as they are permitted to.

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

From a smaller potential market. If we simply want to limit ticket sales to those that have already been to a certain number of games in the past then we will never grow as a club.

That's perfectly true but a different argument than whether demand for tickets has fallen or not.

[Wycombe Royal]

The desire for tickets to see RFC is, apparently, in decline this season. Less season tickets sold than last year, and now games going to general sale, whereas last year there was only one all season, apparently.

So if there were fewer season tickets sold last year than this, and yet the game actually has a higher official attendance figure than the equivalent games (whether in time of season or opponent) last year, then surely that means that the demand for general sale tickets is actually higher?

Last year's official Chelsea attendance was 24025. This years was 24031.

Assume that the club counts all STs as 'attending' every game, and assume that Chelsea brought as many last year as they did this (last year was a Saturday, this year was midweek, so it's highly likely they brought as many if not more last year). If we take the widely banded about figures of 18,000 STs last year and 17,000 this year, can you see how it means that 1000 more 'casuals' attended this year than last?

Like I said in a previous post, maybe we should let this one rest until end September / start October and see how things are stacking up then.

I'm confused by this theory that we have sold less season tickets this season as the club said that over 18,000 had been sold.
http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/TicketNews/0,,10306~1077556,00.html

Were the club lying?

[Hoop Blah]

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

Thats not true.

You have no way of knowing the demand for the tickets because you don't know how many poeple actually wanted to buy one.

All it means is that it took longer to sell them.

[Schards#2]

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

Thats not true.

You have no way of knowing the demand for the tickets because you don't know how many poeple actually wanted to buy one.

All it means is that it took longer to sell them.

I think it is true actually. If the people who could buy them were buying them, they wouldn't go on open sale.

[Stranded]

Well no, it may shows there may be less demand for this game from those people in certain points brackets, it doesn't show there's less demand overall.

[sheshnu]

I think it is true actually. If the people who could buy them were buying them, they wouldn't go on open sale.

If the tickets are sold (regardless of who is buying them - this is irrelevant!), the demand is there. If there is no demand, who is buying the tickets?

[Schards#2]

I think it is true actually. If the people who could buy them were buying them, they wouldn't go on open sale.

If the tickets are sold (regardless of who is buying them - this is irrelevant!), the demand is there. If there is no demand, who is buying the tickets?

There is some demand, the argument is that the level of demand is less than last year as evidenced by how long it took to sell out this game.


As others have said, time will tell and maybe we should readdress this in the new year.

In the meantime, I would bet than many home games will not sell out this season and virtually no away allocation will sell out.

I would suggest this meets the definition of "falling demand"

[Hoop Blah]

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

Thats not true.

You have no way of knowing the demand for the tickets because you don't know how many poeple actually wanted to buy one.

All it means is that it took longer to sell them.

I think it is true actually. If the people who could buy them were buying them, they wouldn't go on open sale.

But they have been sold. Just because they appear to have been sold to a different person to last time does not mean there is not a demand for them, in fact it's the opposite.

If you'd argued that the price elasticity has shifted then you'd probably be right.

[Hoop Blah]

In the meantime, I would bet than many home games will not sell out this season and virtually no away allocation will sell out.

I would suggest this meets the definition of "falling demand"

I agree with that, and I also think we won't sell out a 38,000 stadium very often, if at all. However, I totally agree with the plan to expand the East stand in line with the clubs current proposal as now is the best possible time to push on and win over some new fans, even if the majority of those filling the seats are only ever going to be casual fans and those tickets all make it to general sale.

You're stance here is getting more and more like Woodcotes on the earlier issue of the definition of 'general sale.'

[Schards#2]

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

Thats not true.

You have no way of knowing the demand for the tickets because you don't know how many poeple actually wanted to buy one.

All it means is that it took longer to sell them.

I think it is true actually. If the people who could buy them were buying them, they wouldn't go on open sale.

But they have been sold. Just because they appear to have been sold to a different person to last time does not mean there is not a demand for them, in fact it's the opposite.

If you'd argued that the price elasticity has shifted then you'd probably be right.

Less demand, not no demand

[Garry Mann]

When tickets sell out is very relevent if the argument is about the level of demand.

Clearly, the sooner they sell out, the higher the level of demand.

Spot on

United v Liverpool will sell out in minutes.
United v Reading didn't.
Yet there will still be the same number of United fans in the ground.
This does not mean an equal demand.
It's clear that demand for Liverpool game is much higher, which is reflected by the fact that the game will sell out sooner.

[Hoop Blah]

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

Thats not true.

You have no way of knowing the demand for the tickets because you don't know how many poeple actually wanted to buy one.

All it means is that it took longer to sell them.

I think it is true actually. If the people who could buy them were buying them, they wouldn't go on open sale.

But they have been sold. Just because they appear to have been sold to a different person to last time does not mean there is not a demand for them, in fact it's the opposite.

If you'd argued that the price elasticity has shifted then you'd probably be right.

Less demand, not no demand

Fair enough, although my reply still stands despite my typo.

[Schards#2]

When they sell out slowly, it means that people who could buy them are not buying and so those with fewer points have the opportunity. This is known as "less demand"

Thats not true.

You have no way of knowing the demand for the tickets because you don't know how many poeple actually wanted to buy one.

All it means is that it took longer to sell them.

I think it is true actually. If the people who could buy them were buying them, they wouldn't go on open sale.

But they have been sold. Just because they appear to have been sold to a different person to last time does not mean there is not a demand for them, in fact it's the opposite.

If you'd argued that the price elasticity has shifted then you'd probably be right.

Less demand, not no demand

Fair enough, although my reply still stands despite my typo.

It simply doesn't for reasons made clear several times already.

If you choose not to see them, there's no point in explaining them again.

[Hoop Blah]

It simply doesn't for reasons made clear several times already.

If you choose not to see them, there's no point in explaining them again.

There is a perceived demand which makes the tickets sell quicker for bigger games because people don't want to miss out. I believe that logically for those games there is a greater demand but there is no proof that that is the case and it's not the way you presented it.

It's all semantics anyway really, but mine was more just a response to your foot stamping when trying to prove a point.

[The 17 Bus]

How is there less demand if we sold out?

There was a slower uptake, but the demand was clearly there, I still say that people are on holiday, and is a big reason they did not sell out faster, a bit like how the roads are a lot less busy in August.