New policy in Y26

[Dirk Gently]

Shouting at the club and the stewards is utterly pointless - they are only doing what they have to do.

Not quite.

The Dept of Culture Media and Sport state that in managing persistent standing in seated areas it is "down to professionals on the ground to........decide the best way of dealing with the issue of fans who persistently stand". There is huge scope for interpretation here and probably explains why the safety officers at Wigan and Bristol City (to name but two) have absolutely no intention of attempting to make fans sit down.

RFC seem to be taking an extremely zealous approach despite the room for manouver this policy appears to give them.

Yes, a lot of it depends upon the zeal of the FLA inspector who is responsible for that club, and how much they can get the local council, who actually issue the safety licence, to be "bought into" their arguments. Reading Borough Council seem to be in the pocket of the FLA and so are more vigorous than some others in enforcing the regs - or at least ensuring that they are seen to be enforced.

A good example of things was at Leicester where, a few years ago, there was "a local agreement" between fans and the club's safety officer that standing would be tolerated if it was restricted to a specific block. This worked fine for a while - no accidents, no-one hurt, until the FLA got to hear about it and high-level pressure was brought to bear on the club. The safety officer got a flea in his ear from the top of the FLA and the conflict of trying to make people it was resumed.

Another example is a Pompey, where a new safety officer has arrived this season who is far more FLA-orientated and extremely zealous about enforcement. There is considerable conflict and lots of unhappy people there at the moment.

Where it does work is at another CCC ground (which I won't name), where the safety officer is more co-operative and with whom the supporters have agreed what "persistent standing" actually means. I'm not sure what the proportion of time it is, but in practice what happens is that fans stand for X minutes, then sit for Y minutes and so so throughout the game, so technically they are not "persistently standing." Common sense, it works, and much less conflict between supporters and stewards.

Sadly, I think the bods from the FLA and RBC who monitor Reading are too zealous for this to work here, as well as the RFC Safety Officer being too eager to stereotype those who want to stand as "potential trouble-makers" - plus I think there are too few Reading supporters who want to stand enough or who are prepared to get properly organised for something like that to work here.

[rabidbee]

They would probably say "So why do you want to sit in Y26 so much - why can't you enjoy watch a football match without being next to the away supporters?"

Because Y26 is at the opposite end of the stadium from the drummer. Take away his drum and I'd have no problem with being in Y20. It's been quite nice, actually, sitting in my old season-ticket seat for the last couple of games, explaining offside to the guys in front of me again. That is, up until <boom boom boom...>

[Dirk Gently]

They would probably say "So why do you want to sit in Y26 so much - why can't you enjoy watch a football match without being next to the away supporters?"

Because Y26 is at the opposite end of the stadium from the drummer. Take away his drum and I'd have no problem with being in Y20. It's been quite nice, actually, sitting in my old season-ticket seat for the last couple of games, explaining offside to the guys in front of me again. That is, up until <boom boom boom...>

Good answer - I'm not going to argue with that!

[boycey]

Shouting at the club and the stewards is utterly pointless - they are only doing what they have to do.

Not quite.

The Dept of Culture Media and Sport state that in managing persistent standing in seated areas it is "down to professionals on the ground to........decide the best way of dealing with the issue of fans who persistently stand". There is huge scope for interpretation here and probably explains why the safety officers at Wigan and Bristol City (to name but two) have absolutely no intention of attempting to make fans sit down.

RFC seem to be taking an extremely zealous approach despite the room for manouver this policy appears to give them.

Yes, a lot of it depends upon the zeal of the FLA inspector who is responsible for that club, and how much they can get the local council, who actually issue the safety licence, to be "bought into" their arguments. Reading Borough Council seem to be in the pocket of the FLA and so are more vigorous than some others in enforcing the regs - or at least ensuring that they are seen to be enforced.

A good example of things was at Leicester where, a few years ago, there was "a local agreement" between fans and the club's safety officer that standing would be tolerated if it was restricted to a specific block. This worked fine for a while - no accidents, no-one hurt, until the FLA got to hear about it and high-level pressure was brought to bear on the club. The safety officer got a flea in his ear from the top of the FLA and the conflict of trying to make people it was resumed.

Another example is a Pompey, where a new safety officer has arrived this season who is far more FLA-orientated and extremely zealous about enforcement. There is considerable conflict and lots of unhappy people there at the moment.

Where it does work is at another CCC ground (which I won't name), where the safety officer is more co-operative and with whom the supporters have agreed what "persistent standing" actually means. I'm not sure what the proportion of time it is, but in practice what happens is that fans stand for X minutes, then sit for Y minutes and so so throughout the game, so technically they are not "persistently standing." Common sense, it works, and much less conflict between supporters and stewards.

Sadly, I think the bods from the FLA and RBC who monitor Reading are too zealous for this to work here, as well as the RFC Safety Officer being too eager to stereotype those who want to stand as "potential trouble-makers" - plus I think there are too few Reading supporters who want to stand enough or who are prepared to get properly organised for something like that to work here.

This is the problem it seems . The rules are not enforced everywhere . Watching the champs league last night , 2 whole ends of Chelsea fans stood for the whole game . Where were the band of toothless simpletons telling them to constantly sit down??
while we played at home in what surelly must be the most sterile atmosphere at any football league ground . Mission accomplished for RFC .

[Reading Til I Die]

Can't be bothered to respond to Affer's wind-up post, except to say that they say ignorance is bliss. If that's true, Affers must be the happiest man in the world.

With regard to the RTID's query, I'll give my understanding of the situation - I wasn't at the meeting 2 weeks ago so don't know all of the details, but I'll do my best.

The situation as I understand it is that the club believes that a significant number of people in Y26 are only there for the purpose of interacting with away supporters - and when I say "interacting" I mean winding up, abusing, swapping insults, throwing coins, etc, etc. This includes both those who purchase tickets in Y26 for that purpose as well as people with tickets elsewhere in the East Stand who move to vacant seats there for the same reason. The club is determined to stop this, and to "calm down" this area as they say it is a potential flash-point with considerable conflict with stewards. They want people to be at the football to watch the football and support their team, and not to wind up away supporters or stewards.

That's why they have been very strict on checking that the people who are there do have tickets for that area, and also why they have not been selling tickets in advance. However, when STAR met the Club's Senior Management team last week we discussed this (once we'd finished swapping enamel badges, of course) and the club have made some changes to the away area configuration which, from their point of view, they hope will partly alleviate the problem.

As to the process of not selling Y26 until the rest of the stadium is sold, if you think about it this does achieve the club's objective pretty well. Their objective is to calm this area down and stop it being a flash-point. There are two ways of doing that - for the less well-attended games it's by not selling tickets in Y26 at all, and for the better-attended games it's selling that area to a cross-section of supporters, not particularly those who want to sit there for their own reasons. You might argue that that's poor for the "ordinary" supporters who find themselves in Y26, but the club would say that using that argument just supports their view that behaviour of some in Y26 is unacceptable.

I hope that gives a better idea of the issues and the facts, and please note that I have tried to report everything in an objective way, without stating any personal views or opinions, or by "taking sides" with either the club or those supporters who are unhappy about this. But just to remind everyone of the realities of life, Reading Football Club is not a democracy nor is it a club run by its supporters - as such, they have complete control, from a legal point of view, on which order they sell their tickets, which areas they open up and who they allow into the stadium.

STAR can communicate with them, give our opinion and frequently can influence their decisions (and we're actually much more successful at doing that than the vast majority of supporters' organisations) but at the end of the day it's the club's decision on things like this. They would probably say "So why do you want to sit in Y26 so much - why can't you enjoy watch a football match without being next to the away supporters?"

As for my personal opinion on this, I think this is a similar problem to that being seen at many grounds at the moment : one person's "banter" is another's "unacceptable behaviour". The line between what is acceptable and unacceptable is moving all the time, and is different for many people, and will always cause conflict.

Thank you for your honest and clear reply. It took it's time coming, but at least now I view the Club's position on this matter.

[Dirk Gently]

......

This is the problem it seems . The rules are not enforced everywhere . Watching the champs league last night , 2 whole ends of Chelsea fans stood for the whole game . Where were the band of toothless simpletons telling them to constantly sit down??
while we played at home in what surelly must be the most sterile atmosphere at any football league ground . Mission accomplished for RFC .

The reality of life is that unless several thousand Reading supporters were prepared to stand then the club are able to target the relatively few who do "persistently stand" (however you happen to define that).

When a whole block/stand does stand, then it's extremely difficult to make them sit - as shown at Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd, Newcastle, etc, and as will be seen when the Cardiff fans stand en masse on Boxing Day. Remember when we were at St James's Park last season and absolutely everyone (Toon) in the block to our left was standing but the stewards were targeting the few Reading supporters who were standing.

That's human nature - it's inevitable that the stewards are ordered to go for the easy/achievable targets - the ones where they can succeed, because don't forget their actions are being watched by the FLA and RBC. But as I say, if the whole of Y25/Y26 stood throughout a game then it's unlikely the club would be able to stop them, and then their problem - and their tactics - would be different.

But that's not going to happen. As much as anything else, we are a nice, middle-class club in the Royal County of Berkshire, mainly attended by nice, middle-class, law-abiding people who won't get radical unless it affects them directly (and even then the most radical they'll get is a scathing letter to the Evening Post or a call to that nice Mr Peach).

But even if it did happen, there are many people in those blocks and elsewhere who do want to sit (or have trouble standing) so it's unfair for them to be forced to either stand or to not see the game because of other people standing.

The only - blatantly obvious - solution, is to have dedicated areas for standing and for sitting, and to give supporters freedom of choice.

[Reading Til I Die]

Two great examples of the Stewards inability to do their job properly was displayed at the Coventry game.

Example 1
Once again the stewards were out in force checking everyone's Membership Card/Season Ticket, and in some cases checking it twice as when you got past one bunch of them you were greeted by another bunch.

My seat is near the entrance to Y26 so I get a great insight into the conversations the stewards have and the approach they take. One bloke had his card checked THREE times before he got to his seat. Once he got past the orange army and began walking up the steps to his seat he uttered the words, "What a joke, getting a season ticket checked three times.....tossers!"

At which point, one of the "junior" stewards went and told a "supervisor" who then asked him to be pointed out and then promptly walked up the steps asked to see his ticket AGAIN before telling him to follow him down to the concourse! The bloke came back about 15 minutes later but had missed the kick-off and the opening few minutes.

Example 2
Then after the match started and the rain began to fall, large numbers of fans decided to get out of the rain and seek shelter in the higher empty seats in Y26. The stewards had a conversation along th lines of:

Steward 1: "Oh dear, all those fans are moving. what do we do as they're not sitting in the right seats"
Steward 2: "Well there's not much we can do as too many of them have moved and it'll be hard to check all their cards while the games on"
Steward 1: "But they've moved into an area that's been closed, lets go and tell then to sit back in their seats"
Steward 2:"Hang on, I'll go and speak to "Tosser" (not the real name used!)"
Tosser: "So who moved?"
Steward 1 & 2 begin pointing out people they see moved seats
Tosser: "Well there's not much we can do, sod it, let them stay there"
Steward 1: "Shouldn't we go and have a word with them"
Tosser: "If you want, just tell them they're being watched, but it's not going to be worth the hassle"

Now example 2 might have been the correct outcome, but what's now to stop large numbers of fans moving into empty seats en-masse when it's not raining if the stewards can't deal with that situation.

And people wander why the Stewards get a bad reputation and are seen as a joke.

[Hoop Blah]

It's stuff like this that almost stopped me buying my ST this summer.

As it is I've missed more home games this season than any other season over the last 20 years, and we're not even halfway through it yet.

I'm seriously questioning why I bothered with it.

[Jerry St Clair]

The reality of life is that unless several thousand Reading supporters were prepared to stand then the club are able to target the relatively few who do "persistently stand" (however you happen to define that).

When a whole block/stand does stand, then it's extremely difficult to make them sit - as shown at Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd, Newcastle, etc, and as will be seen when the Cardiff fans stand en masse on Boxing Day. Remember when we were at St James's Park last season and absolutely everyone (Toon) in the block to our left was standing but the stewards were targeting the few Reading supporters who were standing.

I think the, inevitably, "edgy" atmosphere at the Cardiff game will lead to large numbers standing in Y25/26, if nothing else in response to Cardiff fans. It'll be interesting to see how the stewards react.

As for Newcastle, i stood for the whole game and had no hassle from stewards.

I'm continually perplexed by the lack of will to stand at Reading away games. At Cardiff, given the choice of sitting or standing the vast majority chose to stand. Yet, when there is no choice in a seated area everyone sits. As you say Dirk, we're so damn polite and middle class, it hurts.

[M U R T Y]

I'm sure there are thousands of standing at football threads for this discussion - this thread is about the Y26 ticketing policy... which is not in place due to persistent standing....

[bishbosh92]

Anyone who sits in East stand Y26 will no what i mean here, in recent games the RFC stewards are being really picky and ive noticed them pulling people out for such little things Like standing.

I think its getting a bit perfectic as it ruins any atmosphere that the East Stand creates!

What do you guys think!!

[Winchester Royal]

Anyone who sits in East stand Y26 will no what i mean here, in recent games the RFC stewards are being really picky and ive noticed them pulling people out for such little things Like standing.

I think its getting a bit perfectic as it ruins any atmosphere that the East Stand creates!

What do you guys think!!

They've got a job to do, which sadly is to destroy anything that helps to create a good atmosphere.

[bishbosh92]

Anyone who sits in East stand Y26 will no what i mean here, in recent games the RFC stewards are being really picky and ive noticed them pulling people out for such little things Like standing.

I think its getting a bit perfectic as it ruins any atmosphere that the East Stand creates!

What do you guys think!!

They've got a job to do, which sadly is to destroy anything that helps to create a good atmosphere.

Yeh but still i can understand if stuff is gettign out of hand.

But tbf standing up and cheering is doing no harm, also Away fans get let off lightly they do oxf*rd all when they stand.

[Huntley & Palmer]

Anyone who sits in East stand Y26 will no what i mean here, in recent games the RFC stewards are being really picky and ive noticed them pulling people out for such little things Like standing.

I think its getting a bit perfectic as it ruins any atmosphere that the East Stand creates!

What do you guys think!!

They've got a job to do, which sadly is to destroy anything that helps to create a good atmosphere.

The first bit of your sentence answers the question. They have a job to do

[bishbosh92]

Its those Bloody stewards.

got nothing better to do part from piss us fans of and ruin any atmosphere we create

Bastards

[Rob-Royal]

Can't be bothered to respond to Affer's wind-up post, except to say that they say ignorance is bliss. If that's true, Affers must be the happiest man in the world.

With regard to the RTID's query, I'll give my understanding of the situation - I wasn't at the meeting 2 weeks ago so don't know all of the details, but I'll do my best.

The situation as I understand it is that the club believes that a significant number of people in Y26 are only there for the purpose of interacting with away supporters - and when I say "interacting" I mean winding up, abusing, swapping insults, throwing coins, etc, etc. This includes both those who purchase tickets in Y26 for that purpose as well as people with tickets elsewhere in the East Stand who move to vacant seats there for the same reason. The club is determined to stop this, and to "calm down" this area as they say it is a potential flash-point with considerable conflict with stewards. They want people to be at the football to watch the football and support their team, and not to wind up away supporters or stewards.

That's why they have been very strict on checking that the people who are there do have tickets for that area, and also why they have not been selling tickets in advance. However, when STAR met the Club's Senior Management team last week we discussed this (once we'd finished swapping enamel badges, of course) and the club have made some changes to the away area configuration which, from their point of view, they hope will partly alleviate the problem.

As to the process of not selling Y26 until the rest of the stadium is sold, if you think about it this does achieve the club's objective pretty well. Their objective is to calm this area down and stop it being a flash-point. There are two ways of doing that - for the less well-attended games it's by not selling tickets in Y26 at all, and for the better-attended games it's selling that area to a cross-section of supporters, not particularly those who want to sit there for their own reasons. You might argue that that's poor for the "ordinary" supporters who find themselves in Y26, but the club would say that using that argument just supports their view that behaviour of some in Y26 is unacceptable.

I hope that gives a better idea of the issues and the facts, and please note that I have tried to report everything in an objective way, without stating any personal views or opinions, or by "taking sides" with either the club or those supporters who are unhappy about this. But just to remind everyone of the realities of life, Reading Football Club is not a democracy nor is it a club run by its supporters - as such, they have complete control, from a legal point of view, on which order they sell their tickets, which areas they open up and who they allow into the stadium.

STAR can communicate with them, give our opinion and frequently can influence their decisions (and we're actually much more successful at doing that than the vast majority of supporters' organisations) but at the end of the day it's the club's decision on things like this. They would probably say "So why do you want to sit in Y26 so much - why can't you enjoy watch a football match without being next to the away supporters?"

As for my personal opinion on this, I think this is a similar problem to that being seen at many grounds at the moment : one person's "banter" is another's "unacceptable behaviour". The line between what is acceptable and unacceptable is moving all the time, and is different for many people, and will always cause conflict.

If ever there was any evidence needed that this club is so distant from it's own supporters then this is it.

Whilst I appreciate the comments here from STAR and the voluntary work they do, I can't help think that what really is their worth if ultimately the club choose to say & do what they like if they don't listen to those representatives of the supporters?

To hear that this area requires 'calming down' is quite frankly laughable! I sit in Y25 right next to Y26 and I have never seen a 'flashpoint' or a need for 'calming down' in Y26 - certainly this season so fail to see why the sudden implementation of a problem that simply doesn't exist!

Ironically, the 2 seasons in the prem saw more reason (even then hard to justify) particularly against Chelsea & ManU but interesting to note that then there was no need for Y26 to 'calm down'. Was it because we were selling out for virtually all the home sections that we didn't need to 'calm down'?

All this will be forgotton if/when we return to sold out games again and the moron who implemented this ridiculous notion of 'calming down' will have to think up some other pointless drivel to keep him/her in a job!

I'm just off to 'calm down'....................

[Royal Lady]

Time was when just before the end of a game there were rows of stewards and police all braced for "trouble" - I rarely see police inside the stadium these days and I haven't noticed them taking pics with their flash cameras either. I sit towards Y25 and can see across through to Y26 - sure you get the gesticulations - there is also a group of youngish boys at the front of Y25 first 6 rows, say, who all stand up and gesticulate to the away fans etc - so it's not just at the back of Y25 or in Y26. They don't do any real harm and it always looks pretty good natured. I'd be interested to hear of specific examples of our fans misbehaving that warrants certain sections to be kept clear.

I have no trouble with groups of people wanting to stand for longer periods when they're sat in the back few rows, as it doesn't impinge on my viewing of the game.

I still believe the main protagonists are the stewards, most of whom sneak views of the game rather than constantly having their backs to the pitch and looking towards the fans. They're mainly jobsworths who, rather like traffic wardens, must have been bullied in their youth and are keen to even things up a bit and think they have some sort of god-given power to boss the fans about. If they were a little more approachable, and spoke nicely to the fans if they consider there to be a problem, the fans wouldn't get riled and be rude back.

[madreadingfan]

so all we need to move is move away from the away fans and we will be able to stand and sing? seeming thats why they dont want people sitting in y26 because of the banter

north stand it is next season but first get rid of the drummer

[Royalshow]

so all we need to move is move away from the away fans and we will be able to stand and sing? seeming thats why they dont want people sitting in y26 because of the banter

north stand it is next season but first get rid of the drummer

The stewards in the North were very good natured and told us to sit down at the blackpool game in such a polite way i felt compelled to do as he said.

TBF mad reading fan,if you want to change things move to the top of the north for a cup game,assuming we get past Cardiff are drawn at home, their are 3 or four rows at the top you could easily move into mob handed.As for the drummer, we already give him abuse and i'm sure he would tone things down if enough poeple had a go at him/are their to drown him out.

Our mains objections are:

Excessive hitting of drum
Predictable unimaginative songs including the "cum on Reading" bollocks
General twatishness

Feel free to add more of your own.

[The 17 Bus]

I think it is fair to say that this whole problem is actually the fault of Reading Football club, and the design of the Stadium and policies implemented since it was open.

Why was a proper buffer area not in the original plans? Thye knew of the problems of having the home and away fans next to each other, and if they did not then they never went to EP, or any other ground at the time the Stadium was designed.

Why did the club never encourage the singers into a different area, and make it easier for them to be together??

This whole thing echoes the safety gate, a very rare measure at most grounds, but RFC decided that it was better to piss off many fans, as posted on this very site many times, than create an alternative exit system.

The club spent £2million on a media centre, but are unable to make the path down the away end wider, or to use railings to separate pedestrians and cars.

There is much that could be done to improve the match day experience, but not much will, and fans will be the ones to suffer as always.