Steward abuse and standing

[Barry the bird boggler]

I was asked at the senior management meeting today to pass on a message to all fans of Reading, the East stand and Y26 in particular, that the club will not condone persistant standing and will certainly not allow abuse of the stewards who are doing the job they are employed for.

This is not a discussion of what the rules should be and whether we agree with them but a warnng that the rules that currently exist will be enforced and if it is necessary large numbers may find themselves banned from the Madejski.

The club is particularly aware that Reading fans are bottom of the fans fair play league and possibly working towards reduced away allocations if they continue this way. Although our fans are witty and knowledgeable in some songs, their song on Saturday abusing their own stewards is a step too far for the club.

1. The sooner standing areas are re-introduced the better, there never was a need for all seater stadiums just better stewarding of what there was already. However as things are currently, people should sit down full stop.

2. What is this idiot fans fair play league exactly? What earns 'points' and what doesn't? Surely any fans league should be rated on behaviour and friendliness etc.. and I haven't seen anything to suggest we're a bunch of violent halfwits or Jade Goody types.

[Volvicanus]

From the other thread on this fair-play fans league thing, I thought it was mainly about the sort of 'support' that was offered during the game that gains or takes away points. So can we really be all that surprised that we aren't that high up? While some of it is funny, IMO, there is way too much unnecessary swearing and concentration on just taking the piss out of anyone possible. 'oxf*rd' seems to be a requirement in anything sung lately and can get pretty noticeable - especially if it goes on long enough. I'm sure that it hasn't escaped Sky broadcasters that this is clearly audible when some of our games have been on live and I wouldn't be surprised if this would influence them as to what games that will show (read: less money).

As for standing, I agree completely with Platypus - the truth of that matter is that it's not enforced equally in all areas. And when you already feel a bit bitter about obeying such a rule to begin with - all it takes is to look over a stand or two and see several other people standing and it really starts to annoy you.

[Volvicanus]

Info:

I have managed to find out how this works. Every set of supporters starts off with 5 points and then up to 5 points can be deducted or added by the premier league official present at the match for good or bad behaviour. Deductions are made for "persistent foul and abusive language" "persistent abuse of the official's decisions" "persistent aggressive or threatening conduct towards opposing fans." (sound familiar?)

You gain points by doing things like giving verbal support to your own team in an acceptable form, whatever that is (probably not involving eating dogs i would have thought), and for recognising opposition's outstanding play. The winning set of supporters at the season's end gets £20,000.

I have a hard time believing that any club is really taking this thing all that seriously as you can't find any information on it anywhere. Even though it's sponsored and funded by the Prem, it's not even on their official site. But I wouldn't put it past RFC to suddenly decide that this poxy little table is some important table to be monitored closely. Also - if you look at the final table for last year (I think it was), the differences between top and bottom are so slight as to render it all pretty pointless.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

I was asked at the senior management meeting today to pass on a message to all fans of Reading, the East stand and Y26 in particular, that the club will not condone persistant standing and will certainly not allow abuse of the stewards who are doing the job they are employed for.

Whilst I can see the club's point of view - the real issue here is how the stewards go about "doing their job". Yes, one of the reasons they are there to make sure people sit down but on Saturday on of the stewards in Y25 was stood directly in my view of the game when I was sat down. Suddenly there was action at the North end of the ground so I stood up to see past the steward and see what was going on only to be gestured at to sit back down. If he wasn't in my way in the first place then I wouldn't have needed to stand up.

Persistent standing - fine, clamp down on it but perhaps the club could actually educate the stewards as to what "persistent" actually means.
And whilst they're at it, perhaps the stewards could have some lessons in health and safety - a steward sitting on the steps in the middle of the stand for a good five minutes is not the most sensible option.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

I have managed to find out how this works. Every set of supporters starts off with 5 points and then up to 5 points can be deducted or added by the premier league official present at the match for good or bad behaviour. Deductions are made for "persistent foul and abusive language" "persistent abuse of the official's decisions" "persistent aggressive or threatening conduct towards opposing fans." (sound familiar?)

You gain points by doing things like giving verbal support to your own team in an acceptable form, whatever that is (probably not involving eating dogs i would have thought), and for recognising opposition's outstanding play. The winning set of supporters at the season's end gets £20,000.

So that's automatically one point off at every match that the "worse than Graham Poll" chant is sung - perhaps the Premier League should spend more time concentrating on the standard of their referee's than some poxy touchy-feely league.

And I bet that RFC wouldn't pass the £20,000 back to the fans (not that it would make that much of a difference) if we won it

Fact - countless visiting managers have commented on the quality of our support so I don't think we need some bloke from the PL to do the same.

[Royal Lady]

and stewards standing two abreast at the exit from the stands to the concourse just on half time doesn't help with health and safety either.

[Seal]

I've been debating whether or not to renew my S/T and it's this kind of stuff that makes me think not to bother.

The final straw will be if they even dare put up the prices more than inflation, especially baring in mind the new TV deal.

[Winchester Royal]

Heres my two-pennyworth.

The stewards have a job to do because if they don't do it, the club will get fined/have sections of the stand closed off.

The safety officer is responsible for peoples safety in the ground, and if the rules say that it is unsafe to stand (Which isn't worth debating, because its not unsafe) then he has to make sure that people sit down.

Large sections of fans in the East Stand, particularly Y25 area, want to stand up, and do so without inconveniencing anybody else.
Our Safety Officer can't accept this behaviour because its his job to make sure people sit down and adhere to the rules of the FLA.

The club need to look into ways to accomodate these fans. We've been here for years, supporting the club, and while it might be our safety officer's job to make us sit down, he clearly isn't interested in what we want.

The FLA won't let us stand up because they think its unsafe, despite no evidence of that. Hillsbrough is completely unrelated, as it happened at a time when stewards were poorly educated about safety, fans would turn up ticketless and get in anyhow, and sections were overcrowded.

Stand Up Sit Down offer a common sense solution, and need as much support as possible to convince the FLA that standing in front of seats in designated areas is a viable option. If the club were willing to cater for the fans that want to stand, rather than just waiting for them to get pissed off enough to stop coming, then there would be a lot less tension between fans and stewards.

The first step towards this would be to educate our safety officer about Stand Up Sit Down's campaign, and to get him on our side.
After all, we pay the wages of everybody at the club, without fans there would be no Reading FC. They need to respect that and respect our opinions and desires.

Until they do that there will always be conflict, and as long as theres conflict between fans and the club, this club will always be resented by the teams fans.

[Scarface]

I was asked at the senior management meeting today to pass on a message to all fans of Reading, the East stand and Y26 in particular, that the club will not condone persistant standing and will certainly not allow abuse of the stewards who are doing the job they are employed for.

This is not a discussion of what the rules should be and whether we agree with them but a warnng that the rules that currently exist will be enforced and if it is necessary large numbers may find themselves banned from the Madejski.

The club is particularly aware that Reading fans are bottom of the fans fair play league and possibly working towards reduced away allocations if they continue this way. Although our fans are witty and knowledgeable in some songs, their song on Saturday abusing their own stewards is a step too far for the club.

I'm not shooting the messenger and thanks for the warning, but I will not sit down untill the stewards start treating us the same as the away fans.

Can they not see, the stewards are causing all the problems in the first place.

[Seal]

I'm standing in this photo. Is this persistent standing, or allowed as it's goal scoring moment? Where do you draw the line?

[alad]

I will be well pissed off if we start having our away allocations reduced because a few numpties can't behave themselves at the Mad!

Never happen!

Te only clubs to get reduced away allocations have been Man Utd and Liverpool for persistant standing.

Even then the allocation was only cut by 500 or so at Middlesborough and Charlton.

Ignore this crap from the club, they just want to create a soulless place so more and more families can come to games.

[Forbury Lion]

1. The sooner standing areas are re-introduced the better

Reading already has a standing area, It's called the concourse.

[Forbury Lion]

I'm standing in this photo. Is this persistent standing, or allowed as it's goal scoring moment? Where do you draw the line?

It could be classed as persistent standing, It all rather depends on how long one looks at the photo.

HTH

[Skin]

I was asked at the senior management meeting today to pass on a message to all fans of Reading, the East stand and Y26 in particular, that the club will not condone persistant standing and will certainly not allow abuse of the stewards who are doing the job they are employed for.

This is not a discussion of what the rules should be and whether we agree with them but a warnng that the rules that currently exist will be enforced and if it is necessary large numbers may find themselves banned from the Madejski.

The club is particularly aware that Reading fans are bottom of the fans fair play league and possibly working towards reduced away allocations if they continue this way. Although our fans are witty and knowledgeable in some songs, their song on Saturday abusing their own stewards is a step too far for the club.

What a joke. Abuse is one thing but FFS...
Please tell me you
a) laughed when they told you this
b) told them where to stick it, afterall now you're taking the flack for their bullshit
c) asked them why the cowards in the control room feel they have to send stewards into the crowd and cause confrontations in the first place
d) asked the health and safety board if they will ever admit that standing is in fact just as safe as sitting and
e) what are they going to do to help the fans that might want to stand.

..Then we might have a starting place to resolving this whole joke.

If they want to alienate their fans let them but I would suggest putting the expansion plans on hold until they can be sure they will find 30,000 soulless, passionless, plastic robots to fill their nice and shiny stadium.

[Seal]

I'm standing in this photo. Is this persistent standing, or allowed as it's goal scoring moment? Where do you draw the line?

It could be classed as persistent standing, It all rather depends on how long one looks at the photo.

HTH

Not in the slightest funny guy.

[Forbury Lion]

I'm standing in this photo. Is this persistent standing, or allowed as it's goal scoring moment? Where do you draw the line?

It could be classed as persistent standing, It all rather depends on how long one looks at the photo.

HTH

Not in the slightest funny guy.

Well how about asking the chief steward for clarification next time you go to the Mad Stad?

In my opinion it's acceptable to stand to see goals, especially if those in front of you stand in excitement, thereby blocking your view.

[Winchester Royal]

In my opinion, its acceptable to stand up if the person in front of you is standing.
I've paid my money, and if I have to stand up to see what I've paid to see, I will do.

The stewards need to be working from the front, not the back.

[Dirk Gently]

I'm standing in this photo. Is this persistent standing, or allowed as it's goal scoring moment? Where do you draw the line?

It could be classed as persistent standing, It all rather depends on how long one looks at the photo.

HTH

Not in the slightest funny guy.

Well how about asking the chief steward for clarification next time you go to the Mad Stad?

In my opinion it's acceptable to stand to see goals, especially if those in front of you stand in excitement, thereby blocking your view.

According to the Taylor Report, it is "inevitable" that spectators will stand during "moments of the highest excitement." That's just one of the reasons why the current rules are unworkable and need to be changed.

However... the current rules that are the only ones that RFC can work under. They're handed down by the Footballl Licensing Authority who are currently clamping down hard for lots of political reasons.

So, go ahead and break the rules if you like - but don't come complaining that no one has warned you what is likely to happen.

[Harps stay sharp]

Someone said on here we don't get asked to sit down away like we do at home.

Does anyone remember Coventry away at Highfield Road a couple of seasons ago when the stewards started forcefully removing Reading fans who were standing up. All hell broke loose and it caused more problems with Reading fans trying to fight the stewards. I am sure others on here can list other occasions when this has happened.

So, as far as I am aware our stewards are given limits of tollerance in dealing with away fans. They do eject away fans who continually stand when they go into the concourse but try not to make a public show of it to avoid hostile situations.

At home we have absolutely now excuse for abusing the rules. There is no reason at all for fans to stand for long periods particularly at the Mad where every seat in the house has a perfect view of the pitch. Not like Old Trafford which has sight line problems.

Standing up does not make a better atmosphere FACT.

I am glad my young children weren't with me at Coventry.

[Symposium]

Bluntly, the conditions of sale for Season Tickets state "Season Tickets are issued subject to such rules and regulations as the Club may make from time to time including the rules and regulations of FIFA, UEFA, the Football Association, the FA Premier League and the Football League in respect of the relevant competition; and the ground regulations for the time being which are on display at the Stadium." http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/staticFiles/56/3c/0,,10306~15446,00.pdf, page 5.

Therefore, anyone not happy to abide by the ground regulation that you must sit down should not have bought a season ticket. Those having bought season tickets have agreed that they will sit down. Those that have bought season tickets and don't sit down can't complain when they are banned.

I favour reintroduction of standing areas, but we don't have them at the moment. Rather than being aggressively confrontational with the club, a better course of action would be to work with the club in trying to change the law on this subject. If you make life hard for them, why will they want to bother?