6.7 million profit

[Thaumagurist*]

So if "by the board" Sun Tzu is referring to JM, and JM has admitted he doesn't know that much about football (although after 15 years or whatever it is, surely he knows a lot more now than he did at the beginning) how does he decide whether he's going to pay £4 million for a player or not???

I'm sure the DoF and the management team advises him.

[Dirk Gently]

So if "by the board" Sun Tzu is referring to JM, and JM has admitted he doesn't know that much about football (although after 15 years or whatever it is, surely he knows a lot more now than he did at the beginning) how does he decide whether he's going to pay £4 million for a player or not???

He employs Nicky Hammond to advise him and basically to give him a judgement on whether the money being suggested is worth spending and just how much of a risk that player would be.

In practice, though it'd not be exactly like that. NHa has the delegated responsibility to make most of the small decisions so JM isn't bothered with them - so it's only the biggies where NHa would actaully need a decision from the man himslef.

[Royal Rother]

So if "by the board" Sun Tzu is referring to JM, and JM has admitted he doesn't know that much about football (although after 15 years or whatever it is, surely he knows a lot more now than he did at the beginning) how does he decide whether he's going to pay £4 million for a player or not???

He employs Nicky Hammond to advise him and basically to give him a judgement on whether the money being suggested is worth spending and just how much of a risk that player would be.

In practice, though it'd not be exactly like that. NHa has the delegated responsibility to make most of the small decisions so JM isn't bothered with them - so it's only the biggies where NHa would actaully need a decision from the man himslef.

I read that as "HNA has the delegated responsibility..."

Sorry, made me chuckle...

[Sun Tzu]

JM also runs loads of other businesses - hotels, printers, bottling plants etc etc etc.

I doubt he has detailed practical knowledge of all the industries but the basic principles of running a business are pretty similar whatever industry you are in so if his management in each industry put business plans to him he'll be capable of assessing their worth without having to duplicate the knoweldge he pays for.

I'm sure many of us would like to see less of the businessman and more of the emotion led fan in the footballing decisons, but we should know by now that is not how he does things !

[weybridgewanderer]

A company may buy an office and sell it on some years later as at a profit. The office would be considered an asset rather and so any money made would not be considered operating profit. Operating profit would be its profit from its turnover against its costs, mortgage repayments agaisnt the asset would count as costs.


I believe players are regarded as assets and hence similar profit from player trading is not recognised in the turnover there not seen as operating profit. Players wages would be seen as costs.

[brendywendy]

So if "by the board" Sun Tzu is referring to JM, and JM has admitted he doesn't know that much about football (although after 15 years or whatever it is, surely he knows a lot more now than he did at the beginning) how does he decide whether he's going to pay £4 million for a player or not???

no no no!

coppell/rodgers decides what players they want, and how much they feel is a good price to pay, and go to hammond and say is this sensible?

if so, hammond goes to JM, madejski either says ok, heres the money we can afford that, or no we cant afford him pick someone cheaper(which has apparently never happened)

(copps chose the cheaper players in the past as he didnt want the current squad to fall apart when he brought expensive signings on massive wages etc-not because JM had told him he wouldnt get more than 2 million for a player)

[Wycombe Royal]

So if "by the board" Sun Tzu is referring to JM, and JM has admitted he doesn't know that much about football (although after 15 years or whatever it is, surely he knows a lot more now than he did at the beginning) how does he decide whether he's going to pay £4 million for a player or not???

no no no!

coppell/rodgers decides what players they want, and how much they feel is a good price to pay, and go to JM and say is this ok.

madejski says ok, heres the money we can afford that, or no we cant afford him pick someone cheaper(which has apparently never happened)

(copps chose the cheaper players in the past as he didnt want the current squad to fall apart when he brought expensive signings on massive wages etc-not because JM had told him he wouldnt get more than 2 million for a player)

So where does Hamond fit in in your scenario?

[Arch]

Our parachute payment covers more than our entire wage bill.

Isn't this obviously false? Our wage bill in 07/08 was 33 million, we cut it by 40% on relegation and reduced some more by moving out four big earners, but that still doesn't get us down to 11m.

FWIW, my guess is that the 11m "balance the books" idea comes from the notion that we'll lose the 11m parachute payment next year if we're not promoted and we'll need to find resources to cover that since our income without the parachute payment is not and never has been enough to break even in the Championship. So presumably NH was talking about balancing of future books not current or past.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

So if "by the board" Sun Tzu is referring to JM, and JM has admitted he doesn't know that much about football (although after 15 years or whatever it is, surely he knows a lot more now than he did at the beginning) how does he decide whether he's going to pay £4 million for a player or not???

no no no!

coppell/rodgers decides what players they want, and how much they feel is a good price to pay, and go to JM and say is this ok.

madejski says ok, heres the money we can afford that, or no we cant afford him pick someone cheaper(which has apparently never happened)

(copps chose the cheaper players in the past as he didnt want the current squad to fall apart when he brought expensive signings on massive wages etc-not because JM had told him he wouldnt get more than 2 million for a player)

So where does Hamond fit in in your scenario?

The inbetween. Rodgers to Hammond to JM. Keeps JM away from the manager, which given the past is prob a good thing.

[Royal Rother]

A company may buy an office and sell it on some years later as at a profit. The office would be considered an asset rather and so any money made would not be considered operating profit. Operating profit would be its profit from its turnover against its costs, mortgage repayments agaisnt the asset would count as costs.


I believe players are regarded as assets and hence similar profit from player trading is not recognised in the turnover there not seen as operating profit. Players wages would be seen as costs.

Interest receivable and payable (incl on mortgages) are also stated after Operating Profit has been calculated - mortgage repayments would never feature anywhere in the Profit and Loss account of a company as they are loan payments reducing a Balance Sheet liability.

There are so many variations and technicalities in all these things and unless you know the ins and outs of the nannygoat's backside (as my Gran used to say) then you can't be 100% sure of all elements but I think what I've said is fundamental.

Depreciation of Fixed Assets is generally recorded before Operating Profit and (I believe) that normal profit / losses on sale of Fixed Assets are similarly shown; it is only when an exceptional profit / loss is made on sale of an asset that it is shown as an "Exceptional Item" (?) after the Operating Profit has been stated.

[Wycombe Royal]

The inbetween. Rodgers to Hammond to JM. Keeps JM away from the manager, which given the past is prob a good thing.

I wasn't asking you (and I already knew the answer I was just wondering why he omitted Hammond)

[1960]

EP says that Rodgers wants Tommy Smith to relace Doyle. Rumour maybe, but that's not my point. In the article it says that Rodgers must sell £11m worth of players to balance the books. So what's happened to the £30m we got for the second season in the Prem, the £11m parachute money last year and the £11m this year? Is it all going back into Mr Mad's pocket to pay him back? Or was it splurged on players' wages? It certainly wasn't used on buying players. Maybe it's just a ploy (possibly sensible) to make the club pay its way. But then I wonder what all the other clubs who haven't recently been in the Prem do for money.

Maybe a qualified accountant can help me out.

[Royal Lady]

Apparently, it helped to pay off some of the loans. Or something.

How any other clubs manage, I just don't know.

[Thaumagurist*]

Oh FFS, not this again.

[Arnie_Pie]

Click here - http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/f5f1f ... ompanyInfo

Type in Reading Football Club.

Pay £2.50.

I did this last summer and put them on here but cannot be arsed anymore as hardly anybody can understand a set of accounts.

[Alan Partridge]

Apparently, it helped to pay off some of the loans. Or something.

How any other clubs manage, I just don't know.

Expect Sun Tzu along shortly

Don't forget the player sales of last season which now Stoke survived means another £10million, allegedly.

I can appreciate the wages of all the staff going up....most would have come back down again following relegation. Also the loss of sponsors and TV money, but as we are told Reading are ran so well even pre Premiership....just where has all the money gone.

[Arnie_Pie]

Click here - http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/f5f1f ... ompanyInfo

Type in Reading Football Club.

Pay £2.50.

I did this last summer and put them on here but cannot be arsed anymore as hardly anybody can understand a set of accounts.

Name & Registered Office:
THE READING FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED
MADEJSKI STADIUM
JUNCTION 11 M4
READING
RG2 0FL
Company No. 00053703
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 11/08/1897

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
9262 - Other sporting activities
Accounting Reference Date: 30/06
Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/06/2008 (FULL)
Next Accounts Due: 31/03/2010
Last Return Made Up To: 08/12/2008
Next Return Due: 05/01/2010
Last Members List: 08/12/2008
Last Bulk Shareholders List: 20/11/1999

OR

Name & Registered Office:
THE READING FOOTBALL CLUB (HOLDINGS) PLC
MADEJSKI STADIUM
JUNCTION 11 M4
READING
RG2 0FL
Company No. 03889049

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 06/12/1999

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Public Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
7415 - Holding companies including head offices
Accounting Reference Date: 30/06
Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/06/2008 (GROUP)
Next Accounts Due: 31/12/2009
Last Return Made Up To: 06/12/2008
Next Return Due: 03/01/2010
Last Members List: 06/12/2008

[strap]

I'm no accountant, but my GUESS (and hope) is that Mr Mad's loans have had huge chunks paid back to him. The last accounts I have are for the year ending 30 June 07, when we made profit of £6.573M.

At that time the outstanding loans totalled £34.639M, of which £25.845M was on the books as Chairman's Loan. Looks like our overdraft was in at £8M.

Tangible assets (presumably stadium/hotel etc?) was valued at £54.298M with intangible assets (players??) at £6.855M.

Now since then, we've spent pretty much squat on transfers, and indeed have recouped considerable sums on Kitson, Sonko and Shorey. Similarly given no one player is on more than £25k a week, and we've lost a couple of high earners already, I would hope that the Chairman's loan has had a big chunk paid back out of last year's Sky money.

It would make sense. He could't find a buyer, and wanted his capital (at least) returned, which would also help explain why he's still happy to be at the helm. He's got a goodly portion of his money back, and the club pretty much funds itself, well at least until the parachute runs out end this season.

Be interested to see the results to year end 2008.

Anyway, all conjecture on my part. DYOR as they say.

[Arnie_Pie]

Ah sod it they are only a quid.

[Millsy]

So we are now even with the Madman and his millions he put into the club because we've paid it back?

Perhaps we can stop camping up his rectum now?

Thanks.