Fans' Forum

[Royal Lady]

I think we should have a poll to see who thinks RL should be the Go Between, after all democracy rules.

Go for it. I have plenty of better things to do. I was just offering my services - if someone else wishes to do it - I'm more than happy for them to!

[blindedbythelights]

FAO STAR

so you know Royal Lady has been giving it the biggun on PM saying she's in this for the long haul Wind Up


do not trust her

[Royal Lady]

Quite obviously I haven't and you are the biggest WUM on here. I've emailed Starliaison - it's entirely up to her and STAR whether they want me to collate any problems/comments and then send them on to STAR. I have no desire to be on the board or anything like that btw. But, like I said, if someone else wants to do it, go for it. I'll be delighted!

[melonhead]

such a busy body


i preferred you when you were solving crimes

[Royal Lady]

Okey doke. I'll retract my offer if you like. But I don't see other people queueing up to do it.

[melonhead]

only messing gran-you carry on- you are exactly what the interface between star and hob nob needs

[Ian Royal]

If I was running RFC and read through this and the other thread I would consider wondering if a group of people, so many of whom cannot talk in an adult manner without adding insults to the people that they are talking to(looking at you here IAnRoyal, you have let yourself down on this thread), are worth listening to at all.

Yes there is good debate on HNA? but there are people trying to run a football club under todays conditions, and like it or not that means in a business like manner.

It sadly means that catering is contracted out, and many other things as well, it means that security and stewarding is operated within guidelines from the local authority, it means ticket prices need to reflect the coat base of the club and its budget.

It does not seem so long ago that all folk wanted was TSI to throw money in and make RFC a bigger fish, yet look at all the doubters on that thread. It took time, it was delayed as sadly RFC had the temerity to gain promotion and the PL had to approve the new structure and owners.

When STAR started showing some respect and addressing the concerns, I started taking them seriously. Until then, I gave them the abuse I felt their actions deserved because at that time there was clearly no point in constructive criticism. As shown by the attitude confirmed by STAR that this board isn't worth listening to.

[Ian Royal]

Any effective representative group is always going to look too cozy to the group they are supposed to be watching for some they are supposedly representing. Effectively STAR is acting as a sort of consumer watchdog. Representing the views of fans to the football club.

They can only do that if they have credibility with the club. As an professional organisation that's bloody had work. As a group of "amateur" volunteer's it must be a mountainous struggle. You don't need to have power or teeth to be an effective watchdog though, or in this case supporters group.

All you need to do is prove your worth to the club and fans. That means backing the club publically when they're right, or when there is no hope of change in the short term. It means publically backing the club, even when you are sometimes working in the background to make changes. Because if there's one thing that's certain, it's that the club will not want to admit to making mistakes, or to being told what to do by a supporters club. They'll want to be able to sell any ideas as their own, perhaps saying they've gone ahead after consulting or input from STAR.

At the same time STAR needs to do a far better job of publicising what it does to help individuals and the supporters as a whole. Let the club take the majority of the credit if that's what they want, but sell STAR's impact. Give us real examples of change that STAR and the club have put in place. Yes, it's information available on STAR's website in all probability. But lets face it, STAR needs to be reaching out to supporters, not hoping they'll come read their website, which I'd be surprised if it has much through traffic at all. HNA? & RR are perfect for this. There's even a STAR board here for crying out loud!

STAR could easily set up several threads on its board that would be a big step in openness. A Thread which regular reports on the number of individual issues STAR takes up with the club, maybe how many get successfully resolved as well. It wouldn't take much to do this quarterly at most.

It wouldn't take much for STAR to have a thread that openly asked for complaints or feedback about the club. If a member of STAR has moderator powers they could moderate each post with a brief answer and request details be submitted privately if it thinks it could help.

At the moment STAR is far too constrained by requiring people to email it. Yes, there's an issue with being able to check HNA regularly. But that's got to be at least partly because only one person on the STAR board with do it. People would accept waiting a couple of days for some sort of response, I'm sure.

STAR needs to play up the importance of HNA to the club in the right way as well. Obviously the club shouldn't be taking everythign seriously. Most of it should be viewed with rolling eyes for certain. There is a lot of gold on here, but you've really got to sift for it. I understand why the club wouldn't. There's a lot of overreaction too, but that's inevitable as it's a place to easily vent frustration during or soon after matches.


STAR does a lot of good work. The supporters coaches are a great thing. And the forums are an absolutely brilliant example of STAR, in that they happen. There is no reason why members can't get more information than non-members, but STAR must put out at least a brief summary of the forums for all fans and within a short time of the forum. ESPECIALLY when STAR and the club publicise the forums as such a good thing, and when STAR asks for questions from HNA? It isn't acceptable to then refuse to provide the members of HNA? with any info from the forum.

[blindedbythelights]

Yeah hang on a sec while I get comfy before I read all that

[RoyalBlue]

Any effective representative group is always going to look too cozy to the group they are supposed to be watching for some they are supposedly representing. Effectively STAR is acting as a sort of consumer watchdog. Representing the views of fans to the football club.

They can only do that if they have credibility with the club. As an professional organisation that's bloody had work. As a group of "amateur" volunteer's it must be a mountainous struggle. You don't need to have power or teeth to be an effective watchdog though, or in this case supporters group.

All you need to do is prove your worth to the club and fans. That means backing the club publically when they're right, or when there is no hope of change in the short term.

Maybe it comes across differently from what you actually meant but I very strongly disagree with that latter bit (italics). Do that and you very deservedly lose credibility with the people you are supposed to represent.

[Ian Royal]

You might not like it, but the behind close doors slow erosion style is an effective way of getting success.

[Royal With Cheese]

You might not like it, but the behind close doors slow erosion style is an effective way of getting success.

That sounds dirty.

[Green]

You might not like it, but the behind close doors slow erosion style is an effective way of getting success.

What's your benchmark of success, and have STAR achieved this?

[Ian Royal]

You might not like it, but the behind close doors slow erosion style is an effective way of getting success.

What's your benchmark of success, and have STAR achieved this?

Getting the result you wanted or an approximation there of. No idea, I have no involvement with STAR. My employers have had success this way but the details of that aren't relevant here.

[RoyalBlue]

You might not like it, but the behind close doors slow erosion style is an effective way of getting success.

But that is different from overtly supporting the club on an issue where you and the people you represent think they are wrong. Perhaps you might not want to be overtly critical at the time but you certainly shouldn't be seen as supporting them and behind doors you should be letting them know you fundamentally disagree with them but will keep your views private for the time being.

[oldebiscuit]

Good thing I read it before it was taken down!

Any chance you could re-write it for the rest of us? Obviously it will need tweaking to avoid being removed again but perhaps you could write the inaccurate bits in red with the replacement lines numbered at the bottom.

[STAR Liaison]

You might not like it, but the behind close doors slow erosion style is an effective way of getting success.

But that is different from overtly supporting the club on an issue where you and the people you represent think they are wrong. Perhaps you might not want to be overtly critical at the time but you certainly shouldn't be seen as supporting them and behind doors you should be letting them know you fundamentally disagree with them but will keep your views private for the time being.

The biggest problem I have on here is that informing HNA? of the club's decision and line of thinking is assumed to mean that STAR accepts it and agrees with it. This is one of the reasons I have been a less frequent visitor. I personally think that supporters should be informed but have had enough of being told I believe something just because I have informed on it.

You have no idea at all of when STAR has disagreed behind closed doors and kept our views private as by the very nature of it it is private.

[ZacNaloen]

Hang on a minute,


Why can't you make an announcement, say you fought the decision but ultimately lost.


If it's something that the fan base also strongly disapprove of I can only see that increasing STAR's membership, reputation with the fans, and ultimately abiity to affect decisions.

You need to be seen to standing up to the club on important issues, not meekly rolling over. This is half the problem people have with STAR.

[STAR Liaison]

Hang on a minute,


Why can't you make an announcement, say you fought the decision but ultimately lost.


If it's something that the fan base also strongly disapprove of I can only see that increasing STAR's membership, reputation with the fans, and ultimately abiity to affect decisions.

You need to be seen to standing up to the club on important issues, not meekly rolling over. This is half the problem people have with STAR.

Because that is not who I am, I do not see any benefit in being publicly confrontational and I am not going to change my style just to please some on HNA? If the membership asked me to that would be different, but unless they do I act the way I am comfortable with.

[ZacNaloen]

Who you are isn't who STAR should be.

Mentioning those times you disagreed with the club isn't being publically confrontational, it's being honest. If you hide every time STAR disagrees with the club because of some vague ideals about confrontation you are doing the wrong job.

Btw, the lowly opinion of STAR isn't just HNA.


I know plenty of people nothing to do with this site that have a problem with STAR and see them as being nothing but a mouth piece for the club.

Your membership may well be happy with how you represent them, but STAR does have an image problem with a large portion of the fan base that if the organisation has any designs on being something that COULD stand up to the club if something (i.e portsmouth) happens the fan base reacts strongly to they need to be seen as being an organisation that can do that or they will be bypassed completely.

Perhaps you are happy with that, but then what is the point of STAR beyond organisation coaches and fan forums then?