England - the future....

[Royal Rother]

Sterling and Kane did bugger all, Mount and Foden not a lot. Grealish was involved in everything threatening we did, kept the ball well.

No surprise who got subbed first.

I get it. Football’s a complicated game and Southgate’s just too smart for me.

Well he is England's second most successful manager ever in terms of tournament results and also on win rate, so we'll take that as a given.

Also unbeaten in 18 games* now, in which we have conceded just five goals.

On Bellingham, he was rested owing to him playing a lot of games already this season for Dortmund, Southgate conscious of player 'burnout'. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't start our first game in Qatar.

Avoid defeat to Albania or San Marino next month, and we'll equal England's longest ever unbeaten run of 20 games, set 130 years ago.

Yep Southgate is a Football God, immune from any criticism whatsoever and yay, we're the champions of Europe after all.

[Sanguine]

Yep Southgate is a Football God, immune from any criticism whatsoever and yay, we're the champions of Europe after all.

I didn't say that, I suggested he knows far more about it than you, and that his results speak for themselves (including his failures, where for example our approach probably cost us in the Euros final against Italy).

Ironically in trying to suggest that I or others have a rigid view of Southgate, it is you who is guilty of that.

[Franchise FC]

Yep Southgate is a Football God, immune from any criticism whatsoever and yay, we're the champions of Europe after all.

I didn't say that, I suggested he knows far more about it than you, and that his results speak for themselves (including his failures, where for example our approach probably cost us in the Euros final against Italy).

Ironically in trying to suggest that I or others have a rigid view of Southgate, it is you who is guilty of that.

My view is that Southgate has an almost irreversible opinion of both Kane and Sterling (hence being quite surprised when both were substituted last night). He seems to have almost the same, but diametrically opposed, irreversible view of Grealish (I'm not sure I agree that he doesn't move the ball on quickly enough, nor that Sterling is the one to stretch a defence - that is exactly what Grealish does - and did last night, if only Kane wasn't so completely out of form)

I cannot fathom why Sterling is such a favourite when :
a. if he's wide his game is divided into two parts
- passing immediately backwards - or
- running into traffic and losing the ball
b. his finishing doesn't seem to have improved much (see the header saved by the keeper followed by the calm finish into the empty n.... oh)

I have no problem with passing the ball backwards at times, but shirley the first 'look' should be forwards, then sideways, then backwards if neither of those are options. Watching specifically this last night, Foden receives the ball wide and looks forward first, I did not see Sterling looking forward at all.

It's safe to say I wouldn't be starting him at the moment
BTW, Kane looks completely shot. Levy might need to get his cheque book out to buy a replacement

[WestYorksRoyal]

Sterling and Kane have both earned trust and been huge players in the Southgate era, but I'm concerned by both of them; they appear to be stagnating. It will be interesting to see if they are still first choices if club form doesn't improve.

Trouble is, nobody else offers the same pace and tireless running in behind that Sterling does, and it's a big part of how we play. Rashford is probably the best alternative. Similarly with Kane, who is banging on Southgate’s door to take his shirt if his form doesn't improve?

[Sanguine]

Agree with a lot of that. Kane is/was a terrific player - last night was apparently the first time in 15 WC or Euro qualifying games that he hasn't scored, which is ridiculous. If anyone deserves a place on reputation, and what he might do out of nowhere, it is Kane.

Sterling has been marginalised a little at City, and it is showing in his England performances (the opposite is true of Stones, fwiw, he looks excellent every time he pulls an England shirt on). Sterling is still only 26, but in my view isn't a better player now than in his first season at City, aged 22. I think Southgate sees Sancho and Rashford as his competition, so with the former hopelessly out of form too, and the latter injured, it doesn't surprise me that he has kept his place.

More broadly, that we can field the line-up that we did last night, and have Bellingham, Sancho, Rashford and Calvert-Lewin not involved, is a good sign for our attacking play. Coupled with our miserly defence, and I think we are in a good place.

[Franchise FC]

Agree with a lot of that. Kane is/was a terrific player - last night was apparently the first time in 15 WC or Euro qualifying games that he hasn't scored, which is ridiculous. If anyone deserves a place on reputation, and what he might do out of nowhere, it is Kane.

Sterling has been marginalised a little at City, and it is showing in his England performances (the opposite is true of Stones, fwiw, he looks excellent every time he pulls an England shirt on). Sterling is still only 26, but in my view isn't a better player now than in his first season at City, aged 22. I think Southgate sees Sancho and Rashford as his competition, so with the former hopelessly out of form too, and the latter injured, it doesn't surprise me that he has kept his place.

More broadly, that we can field the line-up that we did last night, and have Bellingham, Sancho, Rashford and Calvert-Lewin not involved, is a good sign for our attacking play. Coupled with our miserly defence, and I think we are in a good place.

Whilst I agree with all (well, most) of that, and I accept that both Kane and Sterling have scored regularly, it strikes me that they've scored DESPITE their form, not because of it (e.g. Kane scored plenty in the World Cup but that includes a few penalties - still got to score them I know - and one off his heel that he had no idea at all about)

Still don't see Sterling as the one to stretch defences and it may be an optical illusion but Grealish 'seems' to be quicker with the ball at his feet, and we don't really play 'over the top' for Sterling's pace to be effective in that way.

[Sanguine]

As with Southgate and his results, I'm never one to entertain 'in spite of' arguments very much. As above, this was the first time in 15 qualifiers that Kane hasn't scored. Likewise Sterling's dip in form for England is only this autumn, he was excellent for the most part at the Euros.

Owen used to be shite a lot of the time too, but got goals. Kane can keep stinking the place out if he keeps scoring. That's not to say though that I don't agree he isn't at the races at the moment. I'd probably give Abraham (who is, for Roma) a start against Albania, and Calvert-Lewin in San Marino.

[Franchise FC]

As with Southgate and his results, I'm never one to entertain 'in spite of' arguments very much. As above, this was the first time in 15 qualifiers that Kane hasn't scored. Likewise Sterling's dip in form for England is only this autumn, he was excellent for the most part at the Euros.

Owen used to be shite a lot of the time too, but got goals. Kane can keep stinking the place out if he keeps scoring. That's not to say though that I don't agree he isn't at the races at the moment. I'd probably give Abraham (who is, for Roma) a start against Albania, and Calvert-Lewin in San Marino.

Sadly, it looks like Abraham may not be available through injury and Calvert-Lewin is, likewise, missing through injury at the moment.
Danny Ings ? (obviously not even in the squad at the moment)
Ollie Watkins ?
Is Ivan Toney English ?

[Royal Rother]

Yep Southgate is a Football God, immune from any criticism whatsoever and yay, we're the champions of Europe after all.

I didn't say that, I suggested he knows far more about it than you, and that his results speak for themselves (including his failures, where for example our approach probably cost us in the Euros final against Italy).

Ironically in trying to suggest that I or others have a rigid view of Southgate, it is you who is guilty of that.

I have said so many times on here how highly I rate Southgate, but he has his blind spots IMHO and is not immune from criticism.

It would be silly if we can't feel free to criticise someone because he is better than his predecessors.

And do you really think he knows more about football than me? Have you not read my posts over the last 20 years?

[Sutekh]

Southgate has done well as England boss, my only real criticism of him as that he’s too “safety first” and defensive at times which are possibly the main reasons for failing in the Euro final and also in the WC semi final.

Still if he has learnt from that there should be time for him to get the balance right in the next couple of tournaments.

[Sanguine]

Next game behind closed doors for England, following the crowd trouble before the Euro 2020 final.

[bcubed]

Next game behind closed doors for England, following the crowd trouble before the Euro 2020 final.

Not surprised. It's fair enough
That event was a shambles of organisation attended by an awful lot of oxf*rd

[Jinx]

Why are we playing in blue? With Albania in white it's a bit confusing each time I look up and I have to do a double take

[bcubed]

No idea but it’s working

[WestYorksRoyal]

I know it's only Albania, but we now seem to have a settled England set up and environment where even if players are not in good nick at club level they can still perform for England. Sterling in the summer is the best example, but the likes of Pickford and Maguire seem to have consistently saved their best form for England, which makes a change from the old days.

With the likes of Kane, Sterling, Maguire, Stones and Shaw all some way short of good form at club level, it is impressive that Southgate can still get decent performances for England. Of course, players need to be on their toes and have competition, but at the same time familiarity and consistency in an international team really helps teams play to their potential.

[Jinx]

Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment

[Donny Ironside]

Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment

+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday

[Franchise FC]

Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment

+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday

Should he be isolating ? COVID ?
If not, then his performances for England certainly make him first choice. For Man Utd, not so much.
Same with Sterling (not Man Utd, obviously)

[WestYorksRoyal]

Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment

+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday

To an extent I can see your point. But nobody is really testing Southgate at the moment anyway. Look at Kane, Sterling and Maguire. Who has been putting in performances every week to create a strong case to replace them? It's not like there are players putting in the level of performances demanding a chance. Bellingham in Germany, but equally I agree with Southgate not overplaying him and adding extra pressure at his age.

[Franchise FC]

Or, alternatively, for the other players - it doesn't matter how well you play at club level or how bad the favourites play, you are not going to get a game in a match that matters? Just playing devils advocate really as the results speak for themselves at the moment

+1 to this

Maguire shouldn't be near the England team at all at the moment

Roy Keane made me laugh yesterday

To an extent I can see your point. But nobody is really testing Southgate at the moment anyway. Look at Kane, Sterling and Maguire. Who has been putting in performances every week to create a strong case to replace Them? It's not like there are players putting in the level of performances demanding a chance. Bellingham in Germany, but equally I agree with Southgate not overplaying him and adding extra pressure at his age.

I would argue that Coady has been knocking on the door (specifically for England) but not enough to make a selection difference

I’m not a Sterling fan but I can see why Southgate sticks with him. There’s a world class player there somewhere, just we don’t get to see it