England - the future....

[Sutekh]

Post up your first elevens! There's a worry of shoehorning attackers in rather than having a balanced team (the old Lampard/Gerrard shizzle)

It is very difficult to pick an eleven when there is only one left-back in the squad who, even by Southgate's admission in interview, comes with major fitness concerns.

I heard a caller on Talksport being laughed at by Durham & Co for suggesting that Saka plays at left-back-they have readily forgotten that Wenger played him there on a number of occasions.

If we wanted to accommodate both Foden and Palmer in a starting eleven it strikes me as not the craziest suggestion when all other options in the squad are right-footed.
Regardless of how Gomez or even Trippier have "filled in" at club level with some success a right-footer playing alongside the erratic right-footer Maguire playing at left centre-back is fraught with problems IMHO.

The more I look at the squad I feel that we will struggle unless Southgate breaks with his known cautious approach and goes for broke hoping to outscore the opposition.
Unfortunately big competitions are so often won by teams with the best defence.

BTW France and Portugal look to have the best squads IMHO.

Would agree, England's best approach IMO is to take up the "attack is the best form of defence" mantra and just go for trying to outscore the opposition. There should be enough pace and trickery in the attackers to earn set pieces and break down even the most stubborn defence.

If nothing else it would make for entertaining games and at least show England going down fighting, but we all know GS is an "over cautious safety first nancy" so won't hold out too much hope, but if he pulls it off, despite that, he will be deserving of a knighthood.

[URZZZZ]

Think Solanke is rather unfortunate not to get a call up. Toney and Watkins are decent players but I personally don’t see them as difference makers off the bench (assuming Kane doesn’t get injured) whereas I could see Solanke making more of an impact

Beating the same drum but again, Sterling would have been there for me. Likewise, Grealish is a decent player but I can’t see him as a game changer. Lot of intricate “attacking midfielders” in the squad already in the form of Bellingham, Foden, Palmer whereas Sterling has a knack of being in the right place at the right time

Do think regardless of what happens, it’ll be Southgate’s last major tournament as an England manager so I’m not entirely surprised he’s thrown caution to the wind and left out the likes of Phillips, Henderson and Rashford

[Franchise FC]

Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Crystal Palace), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Arsenal), James Trafford (Burnley).

Defenders: Jarrad Branthwaite (Everton), Lewis Dunk (Brighton), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Marc Guehi (Crystal Palace), Ezri Konsa (Aston Villa), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Jarell Quansah (Liverpool), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Newcastle), Kyle Walker (Manchester City)

Midfielders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Conor Gallagher (Chelsea), Curtis Jones (Liverpool), Kobbie Mainoo (Manchester United), Declan Rice (Arsenal), Adam Wharton (Crystal Palace).

Forwards: Jude Bellingham (Real Madrid), Jarrod Bowen (West Ham), Eberechi Eze (Crystal Palace), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jack Grealish (Manchester City), Anthony Gordon (Newcastle), Harry Kane (Bayern Munich), James Maddison (Tottenham), Cole Palmer (Chelsea), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Ivan Toney (Brentford), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa).

Anyone know why they name a 33 man squad instead of just the final squad? Surprised Elliott has been left out in favour of Jones (not that either would be in the final squad anyway).

Reckon Quansah, Eze, Trafford, Maddison, Jones and Guehi/Shaw (depending on fitness) will all be given the old heave-ho for the final 26.

I guess the Elliott issue is the number of options in his exact position … Palmer, Foden, Saka to name but three.
He’s been very good but probably not good enough to rise above any of those

[South Coast Royal]

Is this now the area to discuss not just the squad, which will be culled shortly, but also the best (?) team that Southgate will put out as his first eleven?.

So much revolves around fitness and I am assuming that Shaw won't play.
That leaves a quandary over the left-back position.

Many years ago I had a discussion on here with vision about right-footed left-backs-my view was that I prefer a left-footed reasonable left-back over a marginally better right-footer made to play there and I feel the same today.
Yesterday Pardew (remember him?) said much the same on the radio and he said that he would have taken Chilwell or Mitchell from Palace.

My view is affected because I have never really rated Trippier but is the same if Southgate were to play Gomez there, a player who has improved leaps and bounds this season even if he can't shoot.
The constant need to have to turn onto the right foot is not good from a defensive point of view and the same going forward as everything gets pushed into the crowded midfield area.

With Bellingham inclined to drift left, as well as Rice, both very right-footed, (worse still if Grealish is playing wide left) there is a lopsidedness to the side especially with Saka nearly always cutting in from the right on to his left foot and further crowding the midfield making things easier for an opposition packed defence.

We don't need Trippier there for free-kick taking, there are plenty of others with Trent expected to play right midfield , and I feel that he is weak defensively which adds to our fairly weak defence overall (including the keeper).

Going forward there are plenty of options , too many choices perhaps in the midfield area and not enough for central striker as a Kane replacement-I would take both Toney and Watkins with Bowen being a further option having played there a number of times for West Ham-I fear that Toney will be left out of the squad even though he brings the aggressive striker option.

The friendly tomorrow may be last chance saloon for some but I would like to see Wharton included in the squad (as suggested weeks ago) as his speed and accuracy of distribution is IMHO better than anybody in the whole squad and one of the faults of many England sides has been the inability to move the ball quickly with Rice (a definite starter with other attributes) one of the guilty parties.
Who would have thought that Palace would possibly have 4 in the squad and it could have been 5 if Mitchell had been chosen .?

Maddison, jones and Quansah being left behind is no great shock and I expect Mainoo and Trafford to follow, leaving just 2 more.

[Sutekh]

Is this now the area to discuss not just the squad, which will be culled shortly, but also the best (?) team that Southgate will put out as his first eleven?.

So much revolves around fitness and I am assuming that Shaw won't play.
That leaves a quandary over the left-back position.

Many years ago I had a discussion on here with vision about right-footed left-backs-my view was that I prefer a left-footed reasonable left-back over a marginally better right-footer made to play there and I feel the same today.
Yesterday Pardew (remember him?) said much the same on the radio and he said that he would have taken Chilwell or Mitchell from Palace.

My view is affected because I have never really rated Trippier but is the same if Southgate were to play Gomez there, a player who has improved leaps and bounds this season even if he can't shoot.
The constant need to have to turn onto the right foot is not good from a defensive point of view and the same going forward as everything gets pushed into the crowded midfield area.

With Bellingham inclined to drift left, as well as Rice, both very right-footed, (worse still if Grealish is playing wide left) there is a lopsidedness to the side especially with Saka nearly always cutting in from the right on to his left foot and further crowding the midfield making things easier for an opposition packed defence.

We don't need Trippier there for free-kick taking, there are plenty of others with Trent expected to play right midfield , and I feel that he is weak defensively which adds to our fairly weak defence overall (including the keeper).

Going forward there are plenty of options , too many choices perhaps in the midfield area and not enough for central striker as a Kane replacement-I would take both Toney and Watkins with Bowen being a further option having played there a number of times for West Ham-I fear that Toney will be left out of the squad even though he brings the aggressive striker option.

The friendly tomorrow may be last chance saloon for some but I would like to see Wharton included in the squad (as suggested weeks ago) as his speed and accuracy of distribution is IMHO better than anybody in the whole squad and one of the faults of many England sides has been the inability to move the ball quickly with Rice (a definite starter with other attributes) one of the guilty parties.
Who would have thought that Palace would possibly have 4 in the squad and it could have been 5 if Mitchell had been chosen .?

Maddison, jones and Quansah being left behind is no great shock and I expect Mainoo and Trafford to follow, leaving just 2 more.

Think Gomez is a good shout for LB cover if Shaw doesn't go (and what's the point taking any player that may not be fit until the QFs if at all?). Gomez is a good old fashioned utility defender who I think is internationally adequate anywhere across the back and therefore should be able to cover as required.

Also think the Palace squad has a number of up and coming players that should be given an opportunity with England. You can guarantee the likes of Wharton would probably be getting loads of time if he played for City or Liverpool or Arsenal and I thought the stupidity of "who you play for in the PL" affecting caps was something GS was trying to get away from.

[Whore Jackie]

Mitchell was pretty unlucky not to make the large squad.

Not a chance Mainoo doesn't go, he was just given a longer rest along with all the FA Cup final participants.
Trafford, Dunk, Braithwaite and Toney to join Maddison, Jones and Quansah I reckon.

[Hendo]

Mitchell was pretty unlucky not to make the large squad.

Not a chance Mainoo doesn't go, he was just given a longer rest along with all the FA Cup final participants.
Trafford, Dunk, Braithwaite and Toney to join Maddison, Jones and Quansah I reckon.

Can't see Toney missing out - will be the only like-for-like Kane replacement if he gets injured. Would rather Watkins misses out (as harsh as that sounds), as we have players that could play that role of a quick, nippy forward.

[Sanguine]

Various sources saying that Maguire (injury) and Grealish will miss out, joining Maddison. Probably means that Branthwaite is a certainty to go, and that Quansah won't make the cut. Trafford, Jones to join them, I think. Other one to miss out to be Dunk or Toney, depending on whether Gareth wants an extra defender or striker.

What a rise for Adam Wharton!

[Sanguine]

Confirmed - Maddison, Grealish, Maguire, Jones, Trafford, Branthwaite, Quansah.

Dunk over Branthwaite?

[Loafer]

Confirmed - Maddison, Grealish, Maguire, Jones, Trafford, Branthwaite, Quansah.

Dunk over Branthwaite?

dunk is in the top % for ball playing defenders in the entire world

he is an elite level centre back, i know this because i have his sorare card and they track all %s and stats

i also live near him, nice guy an nice house

[Sanguine]

Branthwaite had the best season of every central defender in the squad. Dunk had a distinctly average game in last week's 'audition'. Branthwaite was the only left-footed central defender in the squad. Every week he plays with our first-choice keeper, in what was the 4th best defence in the country. It's a bizarre pick on so many levels.

[Sutekh]

Branthwaite had the best season of every central defender in the squad. Dunk had a distinctly average game in last week's 'audition'. Branthwaite was the only left-footed central defender in the squad. Every week he plays with our first-choice keeper, in what was the 4th best defence in the country. It's a bizarre pick on so many levels.

If he played for a better club he'd have got the gig.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Without getting carried away, I do wonder if Wharton is the missing piece we've been waiting for in midfield. The last deeper midfielder we had who knew how to collect the ball off defenders and get us up the pitch was the criminally underused Carrick. Rice, Wharton and Bellingham could be a world class central midfield for a decade.

[BRO_BOT]

Without getting carried away, I do wonder if Wharton is the missing piece we've been waiting for in midfield. The last deeper midfielder we had who knew how to collect the ball off defenders and get us up the pitch was the criminally underused Carrick. Rice, Wharton and Bellingham could be a world class central midfield for a decade.

Yeah, madness not using Carrick. England failed to qualify in 2008 whilst United won the league and UCL (robbed by Pompey in the cup).

Should have just used Utd's midfield of Carrick, Scoles & Hargreaves

Also Mainoo >>>> Wharton

[Orion1871]

Don't begrudge Dunk getting picked. If he lives near Double Dunce then he deserves to get away from the country for a month.

[South Coast Royal]

Without getting carried away, I do wonder if Wharton is the missing piece we've been waiting for in midfield. The last deeper midfielder we had who knew how to collect the ball off defenders and get us up the pitch was the criminally underused Carrick. Rice, Wharton and Bellingham could be a world class central midfield for a decade.

Yeah, madness not using Carrick. England failed to qualify in 2008 whilst United won the league and UCL (robbed by Pompey in the cup).

Should have just used Utd's midfield of Carrick, Scoles & Hargreaves

Also Mainoo >>>> Wharton

Mainoo hasn't shown the passing ability that Wharton has and at international level that is probably more important than tackling ability.

[BRO_BOT]

Without getting carried away, I do wonder if Wharton is the missing piece we've been waiting for in midfield. The last deeper midfielder we had who knew how to collect the ball off defenders and get us up the pitch was the criminally underused Carrick. Rice, Wharton and Bellingham could be a world class central midfield for a decade.

Yeah, madness not using Carrick. England failed to qualify in 2008 whilst United won the league and UCL (robbed by Pompey in the cup).

Should have just used Utd's midfield of Carrick, Scoles & Hargreaves

Also Mainoo >>>> Wharton

Mainoo hasn't shown the passing ability that Wharton has and at international level that is probably more important than tackling ability.

lol, how many Utd games do you watch?

Here's a good example of what he does...(against weak opposition though!!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E4bLrn ... ZA45UNITED

[South Coast Royal]

Yeah, madness not using Carrick. England failed to qualify in 2008 whilst United won the league and UCL (robbed by Pompey in the cup).

Should have just used Utd's midfield of Carrick, Scoles & Hargreaves

Also Mainoo >>>> Wharton

Mainoo hasn't shown the passing ability that Wharton has and at international level that is probably more important than tackling ability.

lol, how many Utd games do you watch?

Here's a good example of what he does...(against weak opposition though!!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E4bLrn ... ZA45UNITED

I watch all of their televised games for the LOLs and my opinion is that Wharton is a better all-round player than Mainoo but maybe having better players in his club side for the latter part of the season (Eze and Olise returning from injury) than Mainoo has had makes him look better.

[BRO_BOT]

Mainoo hasn't shown the passing ability that Wharton has and at international level that is probably more important than tackling ability.

lol, how many Utd games do you watch?

Here's a good example of what he does...(against weak opposition though!!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E4bLrn ... ZA45UNITED

I watch all of their televised games for the LOLs and my opinion is that Wharton is a better all-round player than Mainoo but maybe having better players in his club side for the latter part of the season (Eze and Olise returning from injury) than Mainoo has had makes him look better.

Hopefully, for NT's sake, they both do well and keep improving. Totally different temperaments, Mainoo plays like a veteran very calm on the ball. Wharton is a bit more energetic as you'd expect from a young player

[WestYorksRoyal]

It's not about who is better or worse; it's about what the team needs. Wharton is better at shielding the defence, collecting the ball on the half turn and passing it quickly through the lines to attacking players in more danger positions. It's what the team has been missing and exactly what it needs.

I'd suggest Mainoo is better higher up the pitch and arriving in the box. I'd expect him to get more G + A than Wharton over a season. But we have more players with those strengths.