Paolo Di Canio vs Leon Clarke

[St Pauli]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1506262 ... Canio.html

This article pretty much sums it up. He is an open fascist and sees no problem with that, and sayin 'I'm not racist' doesn't really cut it when the political parties linked with fascism in Italy whip up racism, push for discriminatory legislation, are linked to violent groups, and the ultra groups you were saluting and a member of hang up anti semitic and racist banners.

@paperyes

So what if he's from a WC roman suburb? The Italian working class has a history of far left, left, liberal as well as far right parties and political strands.

He didn't have to follow Lazio,
didn't have to join the Ultras,
didn't have to do the fascist salute,
didn't have to praise mussolini.
Could have gone back on his youthful idiocy when he grew up.

I used to give credence to that 'I'm from this background so it's ok to be racist' stuff, but frankly in most western european countries the only justification there is for being a fascist is that you're a nasty and or thick oxford.

[Big Foot]

Love the interview with the chairman - "not fair to talk about it without hearing both sides of the story etc"...followed by a few mins of talking about it

[paultheroyal]

Clarke told he is going out on loan lol.

[St Pauli]

WTF does Di canio's personal views have to do with it, clearly Clarke says "he wants me to run again tomorrow!!", which indicates the reason he is upset is that the physio has told him he has to do more physical excercise the next day. Quite a common attitude among players. Let's take Rodgers for example, the first thing he did at RFC was to cut back on the physical side of things, to try and get on the players good side. Big mistake. Anyway, I digress, this wasn't something that Di Canio instigated, and it's plain for all to hear in the recording. So Di Canio's personal views hasn't got anything to do with it, Clarke's attitude towards training was the problem.

Erm... thats what most including myself pointed out. Then RL kind of took it off topic, and then folks started defending him, and I wondered why.

[Jackson Corner]

Di Canio may have bought Swine plenty of publicity. How many other div two managers have there Friday press conference on SSN?
But his touch line antics and some piss poor results are making them in to a laughing stock.


Long may it continue!

[Hoop Blah]

WTF does Di canio's personal views have to do with it, clearly Clarke says "he wants me to run again tomorrow!!", which indicates the reason he is upset is that the physio has told him he has to do more physical excercise the next day. Quite a common attitude among players. Let's take Rodgers for example, the first thing he did at RFC was to cut back on the physical side of things, to try and get on the players good side. Big mistake. Anyway, I digress, this wasn't something that Di Canio instigated, and it's plain for all to hear in the recording. So Di Canio's personal views hasn't got anything to do with it, Clarke's attitude towards training was the problem.

Erm... thats what most including myself pointed out. Then RL kind of took it off topic, and then folks started defending him, and I wondered why.

Read it back again, because that's not quite what happened.

[papereyes]

So what if he's from a WC roman suburb? The Italian working class has a history of far left, left, liberal as well as far right parties and political strands.

less so in Rome and places further south.

more so in places further north.

[St Pauli]

Which has more of which? My experience of this is limited to the Bay of Naples (South) and Genoa (North). I got the impression that the North is more right wing, Naples and Ischia certainly both appeared to have strong Socialist and Communist traditions. Genoa has or had some left to it, but that was 10 years ago. Clubs in the north though seem to be more lefty, Livorno are left, as are Ternana Calcio, and Bergamo have an Antifa group in them.

PDC could have followed AS Roma, though the Telegraph's claim that they are a 'left' club is a little outdated I think. In any case, his background is no excuse for his politics. If you live in Italy and are pissed off about your job or conditions join it's militant union tradition. If you're pissed off about your life, inequality and society, join it's vibrant Far left or anarchist tradition. The only reason to be a fascist in Italy is hatred of Jews/Women/Gays/Blacks/Muslims/Foreigners. That's cool, but don't expect to not be called a pcunt for it.

[Friday's Legacy]

Clarke told he is going out on loan lol.

he's been told he's free to leave. ssn interview with di canio suggested he was already released and he can't see who else would want him. apparently 2 days prior to that game he had asked to leave already.

[facaldaqui]

Di Canio hasn't shown much nous as a manager here. How is it that Reading managers seem to be able to manage without incidents of this kind? Even when Fae and Sonko refused to play, it was handled intelligently. It is not good management to tell a contracted player that you aren't going to play him. Firstly, it means paying someone for doing nothing and having a potential sulker around the training ground; secondly, it devalues the player for being loaned out or transferred.

I didn't think much of Paul Jewell saying he's refusing to talk that player who got sent off either. A good manager in any workplace should always talk to his staff. McDermott will even go and watch the players he's loaned out. You get the impression he has time for everyone, including people like Howard who has twice asked to leave. It means that when needed Howard will still be motivated as part of the squad. There was a suggestion that James Henry was a bit of a handful, but he was handled diplomatically, certainly in public.

[papereyes]

Which has more of which? My experience of this is limited to the Bay of Naples (South) and Genoa (North). I got the impression that the North is more right wing, Naples and Ischia certainly both appeared to have strong Socialist and Communist traditions. Genoa has or had some left to it, but that was 10 years ago. Clubs in the north though seem to be more lefty, Livorno are left, as are Ternana Calcio, and Bergamo have an Antifa group in them.

PDC could have followed AS Roma, though the Telegraph's claim that they are a 'left' club is a little outdated I think. In any case, his background is no excuse for his politics. If you live in Italy and are pissed off about your job or conditions join it's militant union tradition. If you're pissed off about your life, inequality and society, join it's vibrant Far left or anarchist tradition. The only reason to be a fascist in Italy is hatred of Jews/Women/Gays/Blacks/Muslims/Foreigners. That's cool, but don't expect to not be called a pcunt for it.

In seven years of frequent travelling to Italy, they're all mental. Trying to put our views onto their world is a bit of a mug's game.

That said, old ports (like Livorno, which is a bit of a hotbed of socialism) tended to be more left wing, the more rural areas are quite old school right wing (church being much more important in Italy, obviously) the big northern cities tend to be more metropolitan EXCEPT when dealing with the South, where they basically want rid as there's a vast imbalance between the two countries and this feeling is co-opted by people like the Northern League.

Naples, from what I could remember my ex saying, was incredibly right wing, in the same way the white working class in the UK tended to be, once upon a time. Add in the whole Catholicism thing and, well, yes ...

On the national scale, essentially, no-one trusts the left wing parties as they tend to be utterly useless (on that note, I know Romano Prodi's nephew, played football for the Italian students at Oxford with him) but ALL the right wing parties are grouped behind Berlusconi: he was successful and was popular but he's a wee bit of a cunt. (Would be tempted to say that any country that tolerated Mussolini mostly because he got the infrastructure working is always going to be a sucker for someone like that but anyway ... ). PR system iirc so you get these grand coalitions.

Oh, and they all seem to hate foreigners. Italy has only just had its first black internationals, iirc.

As for PDC, the implication was that he was a causing these problems because of who he is. The decent man in me would suggest you wait until he actually does something actually wrong, before wading in.



As an aside, ex's great-aunt is a member of the Italian senate. A member for life, iirc.

[papereyes]

I think, had it been any other manager, and the player acted like that, we'd have all basically called the player a spoilt prick.

[ZacNaloen]

I think, had it been any other manager, and the player acted like that, we'd have all basically called the player a spoilt prick.

^

Doesn't look to me like Di Canio did anything wrong on the occasion, he saw an argument happening tried to take it down the tunnel where Leon Clarke kicked off even more.

[St Pauli]

Which has more of which? My experience of this is limited to the Bay of Naples (South) and Genoa (North). I got the impression that the North is more right wing, Naples and Ischia certainly both appeared to have strong Socialist and Communist traditions. Genoa has or had some left to it, but that was 10 years ago. Clubs in the north though seem to be more lefty, Livorno are left, as are Ternana Calcio, and Bergamo have an Antifa group in them.

PDC could have followed AS Roma, though the Telegraph's claim that they are a 'left' club is a little outdated I think. In any case, his background is no excuse for his politics. If you live in Italy and are pissed off about your job or conditions join it's militant union tradition. If you're pissed off about your life, inequality and society, join it's vibrant Far left or anarchist tradition. The only reason to be a fascist in Italy is hatred of Jews/Women/Gays/Blacks/Muslims/Foreigners. That's cool, but don't expect to not be called a pcunt for it.

In seven years of frequent travelling to Italy, they're all mental. Trying to put our views onto their world is a bit of a mug's game.

That said, old ports (like Livorno, which is a bit of a hotbed of socialism) tended to be more left wing, the more rural areas are quite old school right wing (church being much more important in Italy, obviously) the big northern cities tend to be more metropolitan EXCEPT when dealing with the South, where they basically want rid as there's a vast imbalance between the two countries and this feeling is co-opted by people like the Northern League.

Naples, from what I could remember my ex saying, was incredibly right wing, in the same way the white working class in the UK tended to be, once upon a time. Add in the whole Catholicism thing and, well, yes ...

On the national scale, essentially, no-one trusts the left wing parties as they tend to be utterly useless (on that note, I know Romano Prodi's nephew, played football for the Italian students at Oxford with him) but ALL the right wing parties are grouped behind Berlusconi: he was successful and was popular but he's a wee bit of a cunt. (Would be tempted to say that any country that tolerated Mussolini mostly because he got the infrastructure working is always going to be a sucker for someone like that but anyway ... ). PR system iirc so you get these grand coalitions.

Oh, and they all seem to hate foreigners. Italy has only just had its first black internationals, iirc.

As for PDC, the implication was that he was a causing these problems because of who he is. The decent man in me would suggest you wait until he actually does something actually wrong, before wading in.



As an aside, ex's great-aunt is a member of the Italian senate. A member for life, iirc.

All I can say is that I found Naples to be left- communist posters everywhere and lots of commie graffiti. Ischia had a communist library and two communist parties each with their own office, and lots of posters around again.

I admit that it doens't appear this was related to his politcs, when it had just come out I thought it might be an underlyng issue that might manifest itself as this or that problem with training. It appears its not linked to his politics though.

[papereyes]

All I can say is that I found Naples to be left- communist posters everywhere and lots of commie graffiti. Ischia had a communist library and two communist parties each with their own office, and lots of posters around again.

I don't know Ischia at all, and barely know Naples, but that could easily be a reaction of motivated people to the majority. I'm going by what a Milanese family told me. Repeatedly.

That said, Naples is at least an old school port, so I could happily believe it.

Having a look around, given I was in Italy when these particular elections happened, this might explain how I perceive things:

The significant losers in the election were the far left parties, which fell from about 10% in total in the last election to about 5% in total, and lacking a unified coalition failed to obtain any seats in either house. The largest far left grouping, The Left - The Rainbow, obtained only about 3% of the vote, below the 4% threshold required for seats in the Chamber of Deputies. Its leader Fausto Bertinotti stepped down immediately after the election.

[facaldaqui]

All I can say is that I found Naples to be left- communist posters everywhere and lots of commie graffiti. Ischia had a communist library and two communist parties each with their own office, and lots of posters around again.

I don't know Ischia at all, and barely know Naples, but that could easily be a reaction of motivated people to the majority. I'm going by what a Milanese family told me. Repeatedly.

That said, Naples is at least an old school port, so I could happily believe it.

Having a look around, given I was in Italy when these particular elections happened, this might explain how I perceive things:

The significant losers in the election were the far left parties, which fell from about 10% in total in the last election to about 5% in total, and lacking a unified coalition failed to obtain any seats in either house. The largest far left grouping, The Left - The Rainbow, obtained only about 3% of the vote, below the 4% threshold required for seats in the Chamber of Deputies. Its leader Fausto Bertinotti stepped down immediately after the election.

When I was in Italy, I couldn't make head or tail of the politics, because there were so many parties. But I had to talk about it because the first question was always about your marital status and the second about your politics. After a while I found that saying "socialista" went down reasonably well.

[St Pauli]

All I can say is that I found Naples to be left- communist posters everywhere and lots of commie graffiti. Ischia had a communist library and two communist parties each with their own office, and lots of posters around again.

I don't know Ischia at all, and barely know Naples, but that could easily be a reaction of motivated people to the majority. I'm going by what a Milanese family told me. Repeatedly.

That said, Naples is at least an old school port, so I could happily believe it.

Having a look around, given I was in Italy when these particular elections happened, this might explain how I perceive things:

The significant losers in the election were the far left parties, which fell from about 10% in total in the last election to about 5% in total, and lacking a unified coalition failed to obtain any seats in either house. The largest far left grouping, The Left - The Rainbow, obtained only about 3% of the vote, below the 4% threshold required for seats in the Chamber of Deputies. Its leader Fausto Bertinotti stepped down immediately after the election.

To be fair the Italian left shot itself in the foot when it U turned on sending troops to Afghanistan. From what I understand the center left in government forced coalition partners communista rifondazione to back sending troops, and this alienated a lot of CR supporters and activisits, and it was a very unpopular policy.

[papereyes]

When I was there in the early-to-mid 2000s, a carabinieri office was bombed in Iraq and that loss of several young Italians seemed to really shock the country.

[St Pauli]

It's similar in Germany when their people die out in Afghanistan. European countries seem to be a lot less tolerant of their folk dying in foreign wars. Hangover from losses and the fighting (on their own soil) in WW2? Weaker ties to the US? Who knows.

[Jerry St Clair]

What is it with English football supporters and their obsession with passion? If I hear another person bang on about how great di Canio is because of his passion, I'll puke.

No tactical nous? No good at training? Shit at man management? Never mind. Get yourself down to an English football club, act like a total loon on the touchline and everyone will fall in love with you because you're "showing passion".