Rule Changes

[RIP apes]

They did have a ten yard. Moveballforward law, but it got dropped. I got told it was because countries with no rugby tradition didn't understand it.

[creative_username_1]

I'd like to get rid of the person who's job it is to 'foul' the keeper at set plays. You can't be within
3 yards of a keeper or summit. It's embarrassing to watch them fighting about it. Puts Kevin Davies
out of a job but....

Also when a team scores they are not allowed to retrieve it from the net. Leads to petulant
fighting and doesn't avoid time wasting anyway (Bertrand getting yellow carded in the charity
shield for example)

What happened to the disappearing spray idea to mark the ten yards.

[paultheroyal]

Any handball in the box is a penalty. Remove all doubt.

[cmonurz]

I'd like to get rid of the person who's job it is to 'foul' the keeper at set plays. You can't be within
3 yards of a keeper or summit. It's embarrassing to watch them fighting about it. Puts Kevin Davies
out of a job but....

This x 10000000000000.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Any handball in the box is a penalty. Remove all doubt.

Why?

The whole point of a penalty, or any free kick for that matter, is to punish people who are cheating or gaining an unfair advantage, not to create random scoring opportunities.

[Stranded]

Any handball in the box is a penalty. Remove all doubt.

Why?

The whole point of a penalty, or any free kick for that matter, is to punish people who are cheating or gaining an unfair advantage, not to create random scoring opportunities.

Exactly, all you'd end up with is players just blasting the ball at the nearest opposition player in the box just to get a pen - would end up with basketball scores.

[paultheroyal]

Law states "handles the ball deliberately"

England game tonight... Deliberate hand ball? Not a chance!

Ball is going in goal and hits someone on arm where he had no chance to move out the way everyone would scream penalty and probably a red card. Deliberate handball? Not a chance!

Change the law to any handball and doubt removed. Job done.

[Franchise FC]

Law states "handles the ball deliberately"

England game tonight... Deliberate hand ball? Not a chance!

Ball is going in goal and hits someone on arm where he had no chance to move out the way everyone would scream penalty and probably a red card. Deliberate handball? Not a chance!

Change the law to any handball and doubt removed. Job done.

Exactly ... in this case learn from hockey where if the ball hits a foot it's a free hit, deliberate or not

[SpaceCruiser]

Law states "handles the ball deliberately"

England game tonight... Deliberate hand ball? Not a chance!

Ball is going in goal and hits someone on arm where he had no chance to move out the way everyone would scream penalty and probably a red card. Deliberate handball? Not a chance!

Change the law to any handball and doubt removed. Job done.

Exactly ... in this case learn from hockey where if the ball hits a foot it's a free hit, deliberate or not

Except that it's not a penalty flick in hockey. It's a short corner. Maybe award a penalty for any handball in the box, but allow four defenders to stand next to the keeper in the net?

[Franchise FC]

Law states "handles the ball deliberately"

England game tonight... Deliberate hand ball? Not a chance!

Ball is going in goal and hits someone on arm where he had no chance to move out the way everyone would scream penalty and probably a red card. Deliberate handball? Not a chance!

Change the law to any handball and doubt removed. Job done.

Exactly ... in this case learn from hockey where if the ball hits a foot it's a free hit, deliberate or not

Except that it's not a penalty flick in hockey. It's a short corner. Maybe award a penalty for any handball in the box, but allow four defenders to stand next to the keeper in the net?

Is it 'take one small part of what I say and disagree' night ?

Read again - I said free hit because that's what happens ANYWHERE on the pitch - same as I would recommend for handball.

But I'm sure you'll find something else to pontificate (wrongly) about - night, night !!

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Law states "handles the ball deliberately"

England game tonight... Deliberate hand ball? Not a chance!

Ball is going in goal and hits someone on arm where he had no chance to move out the way everyone would scream penalty and probably a red card. Deliberate handball? Not a chance!

"Deliberate" is misunderstood. It's not "did he try to handle the ball?", it's "was it the player's fault that the ball hit his arm?"

The difference is that if you put your arms out or up in the air you are effectively creating a barrier, whereas if your arms are in a natural position, you aren't. Also, if the arm is raised as a reflex after it's hit at you at speed then that's not handball.


Like most "confusion" over laws of the game, it's fuelled by pundits who either don't know the rules, or think their take on what the rule should be is more valid than what the rule actually is.

Change the law to any handball and doubt removed. Job done.

It would remove doubt, but in a stupid way that would lead to penalties that are complete nonsense.

An attempted clearance could hit a player's arm with no chance of him avoiding it. Why on earth should that be a penalty?


Are you in the "if you're ahead then you should be offside" camp too, by any chance?

[SpaceCruiser]

Is it 'take one small part of what I say and disagree' night ?

Mmm, sorry, can I assure you that it is not the case!

Read again - I said free hit because that's what happens ANYWHERE on the pitch - same as I would recommend for handball.

Yes, I read that, but Paula was talking about handball in the box.

[paultheroyal]

Law states "handles the ball deliberately"

England game tonight... Deliberate hand ball? Not a chance!

Ball is going in goal and hits someone on arm where he had no chance to move out the way everyone would scream penalty and probably a red card. Deliberate handball? Not a chance!

"Deliberate" is misunderstood. It's not "did he try to handle the ball?", it's "was it the player's fault that the ball hit his arm?"

Show us in the laws of the game that interpretation please, love to see it.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Law states "handles the ball deliberately"

England game tonight... Deliberate hand ball? Not a chance!

Ball is going in goal and hits someone on arm where he had no chance to move out the way everyone would scream penalty and probably a red card. Deliberate handball? Not a chance!

"Deliberate" is misunderstood. It's not "did he try to handle the ball?", it's "was it the player's fault that the ball hit his arm?"

Show us in the laws of the game that interpretation please, love to see it.

err...that's kind of the point - how you interpret "deliberate"

Take this, from an actual pro referee.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 524354.stm

Former Premier League referee David Elleray said the referee's interpretation depends on whether the hand or arm is in an "unnatural" position at the point of contact.

"Referees look at two specifics - did the hand or arm go towards the ball or in a manner which would block the ball, or is the hand in a position where it would not normally be?" Elleray told BBC Sport.

"The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger.

"If the ball hits the arm then the referee must decide whether this action was to deliberately block the ball or whether the player has raised their arms to protect themselves - especially if the ball is hit at speed."


A USSF handball directive
http://www.rslsoapbox.com/2012/4/26/297 ... s-ussf-say
12.9 DELIBERATE HANDLING
The offense known as "handling the ball" involves deliberate contact with the ball by a player's hand or arm (including fingertips, upper arm, or outer shoulder). "Deliberate contact" means that the player could have avoided the touch but chose not to, that the player's arms were not in a normal playing position at the time, or that the player deliberately continued an initially accidental contact for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage. Moving hands or arms instinctively to protect the body when suddenly faced with a fast approaching ball does not constitute deliberate contact unless there is subsequent action to direct the ball once contact is made. Likewise, placing hands or arms to protect the body at a free kick or similar restart is not likely to produce an infringement unless there is subsequent action to direct or control the ball. The fact that a player may benefit from the ball contacting the hand does not transform the otherwise accidental event into an infringement.

[Flyingkiwi]

I think the point is that the new rule about having to go off the pitch if the trainer came on was meant to stop people feigning injuries. It turns out to be a great way to waste time particularly by calling for a stretcher and allows you to rejoin the play pretty quickly. If you weren't allowed to rejoin so soon it might have the original intent. Say by the medic having to perform a series of checks that takes at least 2 mins.

Exactly!

TMB:
If the had referee stopped the watch every time a Chinese player went down last night, I'd still be watching the game now. How do you think a rule like that would fit in with Sky TV's advertising schedule? And, if it doesn't suit the TV executives, it aint going to happen in the modern game.

[TBM]

But surely the point is players won't bother doing it cos they know it will have no affect on the time

So unless they just wanted a rest then faking an injury would be pointless if the watch is just stopped.

[Ian Royal]

Law states "handles the ball deliberately"

England game tonight... Deliberate hand ball? Not a chance!

Ball is going in goal and hits someone on arm where he had no chance to move out the way everyone would scream penalty and probably a red card. Deliberate handball? Not a chance!

"Deliberate" is misunderstood. It's not "did he try to handle the ball?", it's "was it the player's fault that the ball hit his arm?"

Show us in the laws of the game that interpretation please, love to see it.

Deliberate isn't just moving hand / arm towards ball, it's putting a hand / arm in a position where it can effectively block the ball intentionally.

It's a subjective rule and is always going to be. It's a nightmare to adjudicate on because refs see it in a tenth of a second in most cases. Refs could do a hell of a lot more to try and make it clearer when it should and will be given and to interpret it consistently.

Just my view, could be yours is more valid as you were a ref... but I can't help but feel it's a cop out to take away the need to make difficult decisions and avoid criticism.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

They did have a ten yard. Moveballforward law, but it got dropped. I got told it was because countries with no rugby tradition didn't understand it.

That was only party of it. There were also examples of teams doing things deliberately so the kick was moved too close for the attacking team to score from. Too close and it's impossible to get the ball up over the wall and then down again in that distance.

An option to move or not would need a new experiment - this one was worded so it was a mandatory 10 yards.

[RIP apes]

Meh, that the attacking team had no imagination is their own fault