Another finals another load of idiots

[No Fixed Abode]

I worry for our 3 boys when they are out there later to be honest.

IMO - if you still want to go to a foreign country and watch some football, pre-season tours would be much more pleasant. I'd rather have a few days in the St8s or wherever your team are playing (I know Reading's has been cancelled) than going to the Euro's. Tournaments like that have zero appeal with the volatile atmosphere.

[Pepe the Horseman]

I'm off to Russia v Slovakia on Wednesday. Should I play dead if it all kicks off?

[Ian Royal]

How do you know this though Lux - what you've been told in the media? I cannot believe that England fans would choose to fight the police - we don't particularly have a hooligan problem here anymore, heck, I feel safe at Millwall these days! From listening to reports of people who are out there, the police just started on them. Tbh, if I was hit by a truncheon or whatever and I hadn't done anything wrong, I'd probably be suitably pissed off and angry to hit back. Am I a hooligan, am I fook!

I don't need to be told anything by the media to know that a large crowd of drunk young men at a football tournament who get into fights outside stadia with other nationalities and the police have to take a long hard look at their behaviour before blaming everyone but themselves.

[Maneki Neko]

All the videos ive seen have just shown people fighting back after being attacked by organised groups, then piled into by police.
I know u should probably turn the other cheek and allow yourself and friends be brutalised, but im not sure id be abke to do so if It was me.

Singing and drinking is not illegal.
Ive not seen or heard any songs provoking russians or french fans.
Theyve come in, secretly in small groups through Switzerland and belgium and by sea through tje port, specifically to attack our fans who have been given very little protection at all.

By all means look at our response. But to just blame them is perverse

[Geekins]

I'm off to Russia v Slovakia on Wednesday. Should I play dead if it all kicks off?

They'll still kick you when on the floor.

[Maneki Neko]

I don't know. I wasn't in Nice. And I don't know what the travelling support of Northern Ireland and Poland look like. Or what their respective drinking cultures are like.

I've seen England away in Germany in 2006.

If you don't want to get attacked by local firms, don't drink for 12 hours solid, in massive groups, getting off your face, intentionally blocking roads, singing 'twelve German bombers', 'two world wars and one world cup' over and over. If you want to do that, do that. But don't play the victim when you get a smack and then get beaten up because you're all mouth.

The only reason there wasn't more violence at Germany 2006 was everything was done from an organisational, policing, media reporting* and pyschological perspective to prevent it. The French organisation doesn't seem to have been great, but that doesn't change England fans part responsibility for this. England fans behaved terribly at points in Germany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWhU0PXD7KI

*I was surprised by the widespread reporting of the incidents Thursday- that was a mistake, which probably exacerbated things Friday and Saturday.

they deserve to get battered for drinking and singing?
Lol. Dont care what theyre singing, thats kinda bollox

Hmmm, it's a difficult one, but I kinda know what he means.

No one really deserves to get a kicking*. But if you're going to be loud, obnoxious, drunk and offensive you are really putting yourself in a position you're likely to provoke some unsavoury people into reacting. And whilst they are responsible for their actions, you have to take some responsibility for creating the circumstances that led to those actions.



*that's overstating it a bit perhaps.

The attacks arent a response to provocation, theyre organised and orchestrated strikes on our fans because we are seen as THE big scalp for foreign hooligan gangs.

I understand that our history means its easy to blame them. And our habit of singing provocative songs doesn't endear us to the authorities, but I dont think it justifies the attacks, or the response.

How would u react if you were with your mates at a bar when a gang of armed Russian or French thugs steam in out if nowhere with hammers, metal bars, knuckle dusters, knives, balaclavas, gum Shields, batter the oxf*rd out of people thwn disappear, followed by tear gas and baton charges by police?
Me, id run away, the same as most ive seen on vids. But it didnt stop them getting attacked.

[Maneki Neko]

The fighting in the stadium involved the Russians attacking women, children and old people - don't for one minute think this was stupid hooligan v stupid hooligan. It clearly was orchestrated earlier, as the Russians etc arrived "tooled up" as "hooligans" like to call it. I would rather listen to people like Stan Collymore who videoed it and Rebekah Vardy who was caught up in it, than listen to lame excuses on here or take any notice of what our, frankly, pathetic media say.

The flare was a signal for a two pronged attack in stands and concourse. Its organised and brutal to an extent ive not seen sureounding English football, here or abroad for decades, possibly never.

[Maneki Neko]

an unsurprising at all the Ingurland hooligan apologists on here.

Yes, the Russians are equally to blame this time ( notably in the stadium. They have rightly been threatened with expulsion from the competition too). Of course locals incited the England fans in Marseille , no doubt. But there were some disgusting scenes created by (a minority) of English fans in the city over the weekend.

You cannot ignore the effect this is having on our reputation as a country. It is very much the lead story on the TV news/papers over here (until the Orlando massacre).

The irony of being thrown out of the Euros is fantastic in view of the referendum.

equal? In the stadium? Lol.

[Maneki Neko]

an unsurprising at all the Ingurland hooligan apologists on here.

Yes, the Russians are equally to blame this time ( notably in the stadium. They have rightly been threatened with expulsion from the competition too). Of course locals incited the England fans in Marseille , no doubt. But there were some disgusting scenes created by (a minority) of English fans in the city over the weekend.

You cannot ignore the effect this is having on our reputation as a country. It is very much the lead story on the TV news/papers over here (until the Orlando massacre).

The irony of being thrown out of the Euros is fantastic in view of the referendum.

an expulsion would guarantee an out vote
Putin would love that.
Weird coincidence eh

[Maneki Neko]

That's Brendy on the far right, right?



Also, you may say he's just the token black guy but it's a start. Black and white happily fighting side by side
it's what Rosa Parks would have wanted

Did we throw all that glassware on the floor at ourselves?

[Winston Smith]

The fighting in the stadium involved the Russians attacking women, children and old people.

Seems a weird mix of people to go for? sure they weren't just caught up in it?

[Winston Smith]

I wonder if just banning English people drinking at these tournaments would work. If you cannot speak the language of the host nation or the opposition with a perfect accent then you don't get served.

The English do seem to be unable to handle their booze unlike most of their foreign cousins. I wonder what is behind it? A more immature attitude in general?

[NessaFromEldorado]

I enjoy fapping to football hooligan videos on Youtube as much as the next right thinking male, but watching twenty odd steroid-fueled Russian muscle marys repeatedly stamping on some northerner's head doesn't quite seem to be in the spirit of things.

[St Pauli]

they deserve to get battered for drinking and singing?
Lol. Dont care what theyre singing, thats kinda bollox

Hmmm, it's a difficult one, but I kinda know what he means.

No one really deserves to get a kicking*. But if you're going to be loud, obnoxious, drunk and offensive you are really putting yourself in a position you're likely to provoke some unsavoury people into reacting. And whilst they are responsible for their actions, you have to take some responsibility for creating the circumstances that led to those actions.



*that's overstating it a bit perhaps.

The attacks arent a response to provocationThe Russian ones, I agree. Not so sure about Thursday and Friday night., theyre organised and orchestrated strikes on our fans because we are seen as THE big scalp for foreign hooligan gangs. That explains the violence Saturday, when armed and organised Russian gangs attacked England fans. What's the excuse for Thursday and Friday night?

I understand that our history means its easy to blame them. And our habit of singing provocative songs doesn't endear us to the authorities, but I dont think it justifies the attacks, or the response. History? Have people who get off their face on holiday learnt how to stop being aggressive, violent and abusive? Does Friar Street no longer need a police presence on Friday nights?

How would u react if you were with your mates at a bar when a gang of armed Russian or French thugs steam in out if nowhere with hammers, metal bars, knuckle dusters, knives, balaclavas, gum Shields, batter the oxf*rd out of people thwn disappear, followed by tear gas and baton charges by police?
Me, id run away, the same as most ive seen on vids. But it didnt stop them getting attacked. I'd do the same. But that didn't happen until Saturday. There'd been trouble since Thursday.

[St Pauli]

That's Brendy on the far right, right?



Also, you may say he's just the token black guy but it's a start. Black and white happily fighting side by side
it's what Rosa Parks would have wanted

Did we throw all that glassware on the floor at ourselves?

No, don't think anyone's claimed England were the only ones involved, just that over 3 nights of violence they might share some responsibility.

[St Pauli]

I enjoy fapping to football hooligan videos on Youtube as much as the next right thinking male, but watching twenty odd steroid-fueled Russian muscle marys repeatedly stamping on some northerner's head doesn't quite seem to be in the spirit of things.

+1

[No Fixed Abode]

Hmmm, it's a difficult one, but I kinda know what he means.

No one really deserves to get a kicking*. But if you're going to be loud, obnoxious, drunk and offensive you are really putting yourself in a position you're likely to provoke some unsavoury people into reacting. And whilst they are responsible for their actions, you have to take some responsibility for creating the circumstances that led to those actions.



*that's overstating it a bit perhaps.

The attacks arent a response to provocationThe Russian ones, I agree. Not so sure about Thursday and Friday night., theyre organised and orchestrated strikes on our fans because we are seen as THE big scalp for foreign hooligan gangs. That explains the violence Saturday, when armed and organised Russian gangs attacked England fans. What's the excuse for Thursday and Friday night?

I understand that our history means its easy to blame them. And our habit of singing provocative songs doesn't endear us to the authorities, but I dont think it justifies the attacks, or the response. History? Have people who get off their face on holiday learnt how to stop being aggressive, violent and abusive? Does Friar Street no longer need a police presence on Friday nights?

How would u react if you were with your mates at a bar when a gang of armed Russian or French thugs steam in out if nowhere with hammers, metal bars, knuckle dusters, knives, balaclavas, gum Shields, batter the oxf*rd out of people thwn disappear, followed by tear gas and baton charges by police?
Me, id run away, the same as most ive seen on vids. But it didnt stop them getting attacked. I'd do the same. But that didn't happen until Saturday. There'd been trouble since Thursday.

Reports from Friday night 'suggested' a group of 70 or so local 'ultra's' initiated the trouble with England fans who were outside a bar.

[No Fixed Abode]

I wonder if just banning English people drinking at these tournaments would work. If you cannot speak the language of the host nation or the opposition with a perfect accent then you don't get served.

The English do seem to be unable to handle their booze unlike most of their foreign cousins. I wonder what is behind it? A more immature attitude in general?

It's certainly a cultural problem here. This trouble happens week in and week out at football on a smaller scale in this country but as it usually takes place away from the stadium, quite a lot of it goes unreported.

[Maneki Neko]

http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016

In case anyine missed it at bottom of page.

Perfect response

[Winston Smith]

Russian MP Vladislav Zhukov: "If England fans don't want to get beaten up, they shouldn't go to football matches. They are babies."

Hard to argue with the last part