Weekend Football

[BROB0T]

Sorry to go all Snowball on you, but the stats don't really support that :

Comparing the last 5 years results (and bear in mind that the Liverpool/City numbers are marginally better for the last 4 years) against the best consecutive five years for Man Utd/Arsenal from 1995/96 through to 2004/05 :

Liverpool?City have hit 90+ points 3 times each (twice not to even win the title)
Arsenal/Utd achieved that once each during their best period together

Average points over the period - Man City 92, Liverpool 86, Man Utd 82, Arsenal 80
Average goals for - Man City 97, Liverpool 84, Man Utd 80, Arsenal 75
Average goals against - Man City 29, Liverpool 32, Man Utd 37, Arsenal 32
Goals scored (in the two sets of 5 years)
- Man City - lowest total 83, twice over 100
- Liverpool - lowest 68, highest 94
- Man Utd - lowest 64, highest 97
- Arsenal - lowest 59, highest 85
Goals conceded
- Man City - highest 35, lowest 26
- Liverpool - highest 42, lowest 22
- Man Utd - highest 45, lowest 34
- Arsenal - highest 45, lowest 17 (ironically not the Invincibles year)

I'm happy to run through any other stats you think might be relevant

The subjective bit is that IMHO watching the current two is more enjoyable than the Arsenal/United years (clearly that's just my opinion and I can't back it up)

My guess is that Arsenal/United fans will (through partially tinted specs) see it differently, but the overwhelming weight of statistics is that the current two are the best we've seen ... and, of course there's, as yet, no end in sight

Points/goals aren't really the best way to assess it across multiple years. Depends upon the relative strength of teams across the league and I'm not sure how you actually assess that without being subjective. United and Arsenal were also competing against much tougher European teams etc

A large element comes down to...do you think the top teams were so much better they make the rest look bad or that the other teams were better and the competition harder.

Humans have a natural tendency to rank the new and shiny things higher e.g the best teams since 1980

MCFC/LFC >>>>> MUFC >>>> Chelsea >>>>>MUFC/Arsenal >>> MUFC/Newcastle >>> Arsenal/LFC >>>>>Everton/LFC

United and Arsenal teams would often have it wrapped up by April and play the youth or be 'on the beach' for the last 3 or 4 games

If you can find a time machine then we can play a season and work out who does best

Obvs would need to adapt the rules and attitudes towards fouls etc to fit in some way. You may have to regress/progress physical fitness so the two teams match up but other than that a simple experiment to set up.

Who's the better CB...VVD, Rio, Stam or Hansen? Really difficult to assess over different time periods

If we're picking the best club sides based on winning the league and doing well in Europe then you have to pick LFC '78-84 team first followed (a fair distance behind) by United's 08-11 team

[BROB0T]

We are seriously lucky to be living through a period where we’re seeing probably the two best English club teams there have ever been … and they’re going head to head

Just waiting on something processing so had a quick look at the standardized scores (making an assumption they're normally distributed) of Man Utd 99/00 and LFC 19/20

Interested to see if it would be much different from just reading the point scores...not really! Possibly also compare how many points each team would* have got in each season if you cba finishing it off

[BROB0T]

still hasn't finished so may as well...

a pretty shaky way of doing things as it's difficult to compare but...

- LFC would have got 94 points in the 99/00 season
- MU would have got 95 points in the 19/20 season

There are loads of other issues as well that affect points total, schedules (e.g two tough consecutive opponents in the league and CL knockout rounds), injuries to players in areas where you don't have replacements

Also, just add in a fair amount of random variance or luck as it's known!

[Franchise FC]

still hasn't finished so may as well...

a pretty shaky way of doing things as it's difficult to compare but...

- LFC would have got 94 points in the 99/00 season
- MU would have got 95 points in the 19/20 season

There are loads of other issues as well that affect points total, schedules (e.g two tough consecutive opponents in the league and CL knockout rounds), injuries to players in areas where you don't have replacements

Also, just add in a fair amount of random variance or luck as it's known!

Of course, that hasn’t happened to the best defender in each of Liverpool and City recently

More important, tell me how the ‘standardised’ method works

[BROB0T]

still hasn't finished so may as well...

a pretty shaky way of doing things as it's difficult to compare but...

- LFC would have got 94 points in the 99/00 season
- MU would have got 95 points in the 19/20 season

There are loads of other issues as well that affect points total, schedules (e.g two tough consecutive opponents in the league and CL knockout rounds), injuries to players in areas where you don't have replacements

Also, just add in a fair amount of random variance or luck as it's known!

Of course, that hasn’t happened to the best defender in each of Liverpool and City recently

More important, tell me how the ‘standardised’ method works

Exactly, LFC did very poorly the season VVD was out.

(x - X.mean) / X.std

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_score

Allows us to better compare the relative strength of the league across seasons (apples for apples)

[Franchise FC]

still hasn't finished so may as well...

a pretty shaky way of doing things as it's difficult to compare but...

- LFC would have got 94 points in the 99/00 season
- MU would have got 95 points in the 19/20 season

There are loads of other issues as well that affect points total, schedules (e.g two tough consecutive opponents in the league and CL knockout rounds), injuries to players in areas where you don't have replacements

Also, just add in a fair amount of random variance or luck as it's known!

Of course, that hasn’t happened to the best defender in each of Liverpool and City recently

More important, tell me how the ‘standardised’ method works

Exactly, LFC did very poorly the season VVD was out.

(x - X.mean) / X.std

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_score

Allows us to better compare the relative strength of the league across seasons (apples for apples)

Two points :
1. a sample size of 20 is significantly below the accepted minimum for calculating and using a normal distribution (you already know it’s 30, as generally accepted by the statistical fraternity)
2. the results are not independent. Heights of males, for example, are completely independent of each other. Points results of each team are completely dependent on the others. One team wins the other has to lose. (again, you knew that already, but thought you could muddy the waters)

And you’re right, LFC did very poorly the season VVD was out. They only finished third

[BROB0T]

The sample size isn't really an issue as it's effectively bootstrapped every season. The independent bit was the issue giving me concerns

Obvs if you're going to compare then you do need to know the relative strength of the leagues so you would have to standardize

[Franchise FC]

The sample size isn't really an issue as it's effectively bootstrapped every season. The independent bit was the issue giving me concerns

Obvs if you're going to compare then you do need to know the relative strength of the leagues so you would have to standardize

As stated, your methodology is flawed primarily because of the dependent nature of the results, so standardising is not really an option, not in this way at least

[Pepe the Horseman]

Premier League fixtures out today. Surprised to see Bournemouth and Fulham in there. Is it just me, or does the Prem look the weakest it's been for a while? Other than Citeh and Liverpool, obvs x

[Sanguine]

Hates xG, but pushes 'standardised scores'.

[Loafer]

xG is an utter load of bollocks

[Franchise FC]

Hates xG, but pushes 'standardised scores'.

Darn, should've spotted that

[Silver Fox]

Premier League fixtures out today. Surprised to see Bournemouth and Fulham in there. Is it just me, or does the Prem look the weakest it's been for a while? Other than Citeh and Liverpool, obvs x

I know there's a lot that goes into knocking up a fixture list but how do they not have Citeh v Liverpool as the last game of the season?

I guess the obvious answer is that one team would have home field advantage for what might be a title decider but the PL probably don't care about that when a massive game could be on the cards

[Pepe the Horseman]

Premier League fixtures out today. Surprised to see Bournemouth and Fulham in there. Is it just me, or does the Prem look the weakest it's been for a while? Other than Citeh and Liverpool, obvs x

I know there's a lot that goes into knocking up a fixture list but how do they not have Citeh v Liverpool as the last game of the season?

I guess the obvious answer is that one team would have home field advantage for what might be a title decider but the PL probably don't care about that when a massive game could be on the cards

Better still, have both fixtures as the last two games.

[BROB0T]

Premier League fixtures out today. Surprised to see Bournemouth and Fulham in there. Is it just me, or does the Prem look the weakest it's been for a while? Other than Citeh and Liverpool, obvs x

No, the prem is always EXACTLY the same strength and Liverpool are the (proven) best team ever

[From Despair To Where?]

Comedy sending off for Lee Tomlin in his debut for Doncaster this afternoon. Gives away a free kick and gets booked for kicking the ball away. A Bradford player then walks past him so he throws himself to the ground and get a second yellow for simulation.

[Loafer]

Comedy sending off for Lee Tomlin in his debut for Doncaster this afternoon. Gives away a free kick and gets booked for kicking the ball away. A Bradford player then walks past him so he throws himself to the ground and get a second yellow for simulation.

If I were Doncaster I would not play him again for that. Utterly pathetic.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Premier League fixtures out today. Surprised to see Bournemouth and Fulham in there. Is it just me, or does the Prem look the weakest it's been for a while? Other than Citeh and Liverpool, obvs x

Why? They both got promoted.

[South Coast Royal]

Premier League fixtures out today. Surprised to see Bournemouth and Fulham in there. Is it just me, or does the Prem look the weakest it's been for a while? Other than Citeh and Liverpool, obvs x

No, the prem is always EXACTLY the same strength and Liverpool are the (proven) best team ever

Converted at last eh Robot?

[Sanguine]

I'm just happy that the Brobers, who likes to put himself across as so cool and unflappable, clearly has twisty knickers over a comparison between the City, Liverpool and United teams.